Bad, DMT, must write.

[IJesusChrist]

Hey guys. Sorry to come back with such bad news.

Yesterday, I started talking to my friend about DMT, he got very excited and wanted to do it. From past experiences (three) of friends I have given to, only one really tripped a good amount, so I thought this last little bit won't be very strong...

We started talking, and I kind of told him about my bad trips, which wasn't the correct thing to do at all. He started saying man I'm kind of scared. I reassured him this stuff was fine, and there are no long term effects, you'll be in, and you'll be out. You will see it, and then come back to tell about it, no matter what. I was very tired and wasn't even thinking that I should do everything I can to get his positive emotions rolling. I just wanted to show him the rabbit hole.

He sat down, I took a hit to show him how. My nerves spiked, and I felt not good (like I always do at the first hit of DMT).

He took a small hit "whoa dude..."

I held the lighter, he took another.

... He grabbed his hair, and with the worst face I have ever encountered, the most fear and anger I have ever witnessed he turned to me, his pupils shaking:

"Did I just die?" "WHAT THE FUCK DUDE"
"WHAT DID YOU DO TO ME"

Instantly I knew exaclty where he was, and my nerves spiked again, I was going into a panic attack. It brought back alot of painful memories of my own bad trips. I kept my cool but I slipped out, with the worst possible timing, and I don't even know how exaclty it came out
"No dude, you're crazy" with the intention of saying No dude, you're fine.

He turned over on the bed, face down, "Where am I? WHERE AM I? I KNOW YOU KNOW."

He was in a house occupied by other people so I was trying to keep him quiet.

"WHAT DID YOU DO TO ME"

I kept the re-assurance up that he'll be fine, and he'll come out very soon.

I wasn't seeing him become any more sober so I started to freak in my head. I was going to chuck the pipe and the DMT .

All this time I knew DMT couldn't do anything, but it was that face. H?is damn face.

He came down, and he was pissed, extremelyu pissed. I calmed him down, gave more re-assurance and we carried on with our night. He texted me later and said he wanted to try it again (of course I said no) I'm not letting him touch it for atleast 365 days.

But imagine... what if I had not been there? Could this stuff really do what Vlad said? He's fine now, back to what he was, but I'm still having a mild panic attack, 12 hours later. My nerves are shot. (my girlfriend also put the largest load she has ever emotionally put on me last night)

Phew, sorry guys, didn't really help much to write it but yeah, it did.

 

[Twilight]

Dude, there is always a chance it has long term effects. They can be positive or negative. It just shouldn't be underestimated.
I'm very glad to read that he is fine now.
But yeah it's a good idea to wait a long while before he tries it again.
Has he had other psychedelic experiences before?

 

[mysticwarrior]

keep an eye on that guy, ask him now and then how he feels. Just to check if there are any positive or negative changes. The whole experience he went trough, doesn't necessary have to be negative.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

"Did I just die?" "WHAT THE FUCK DUDE"
"WHAT DID YOU DO TO ME"

It is not dying...

Man, what a shock it must have been for him, and for you. Glad to hear he didn't feel that bad about the experience later on. His initial reaction sounds quite familiar though. But if he was talking throughout the experience, he probably didn't inhale enough.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I told him to take another, to break through, but he was just too scared. His mind was on defense all night, I could tell.

He has done mushrooms, and "whippits" which is NO, laughing gas or something I can't remember.

He'll be ok but the guy is really conflicted inside, one night when he was wasted, he tried to convert me to christianity and started to pray in my room , kneeling before me.

He is definitely confused on some things, and has some deep-rooted anger, his family stories are horrific. I'm not condoning anymore psychadelic use on his behalf, and he knows this - but I hope he can help himself more than I do so.

 

[mysticwarrior]

He'll be ok but the guy is really conflicted inside, one night when he was wasted, he tried to convert me to christianity and started to pray in my room , kneeling before me.

i remember you told something about that in another thread. You where on acid when you tripped with him... Am i right?

 

[Ganesha]

I think the guy needs a hug.

At the same time he might not accept this.

 

[mysticwarrior]

I think the guy needs a hug.

At the same time he might not accept this.

 

[Brugmansia]

"Did I just die?" "WHAT THE FUCK DUDE"
"WHAT DID YOU DO TO ME"

It is not dying...

But such an assurance will hardly make sense if one has been detached from his autonomous concept, the attempt to bend through language is a form of data which cannot be processed for it's intend at that point.

It'd have been better to throw some water over him (just a cup) and/or kindly taking his wrist and giving a glance to give the notion that you're discerning the blast one is going through. The skin instinctively recognises water with it's nerves. It's the deepest sign of having life.

At JC, tell him your heart is open for any interaction if he wants to share his inner self with you about the experience. And offer him essential information about entheogens and the precautions to take. It may help to know that many went through this.

And remember that some people are extremly sensitive for mind altering states, my brother had done 1 shroom experience in his life on just 20 gram fresh cubensis in 2005 and he still talks about it often and how it had affected him. Very positively. But smoking weed had put him into a temporarly state of fear for hours. He still needs time before he'll do his 2nd trip, if he wants to do it all, he said.

I think the guy needs a hug.

At the same time he might not accept this.

Our world architects have inserted too much individuals with the drive to develop eminence, nearly all are too artificial to receive warmth and smell integral.

 

[IJesusChrist]

we've talked alot, I've shared with him alot of my knowledge and advice, which is being to stay away, and clear your head from it, detach from that particular experience when conceiving another - he wants to do salvia now though (plus DMT again).

I told him I don't want him to, and why. He likes psychadelics alot, although his experiences (in my opinion) have been quite weak. Anyways, he's recovered well over fully, and my nerves are back to a-ok.

New advice formyself: Try not to forget its DMT.

 

[Jamapricotica]

This post has been edited by me, Jamapricotica, for the simple reason that I am attempting to cleanup and/or improve my presence on this forum.

Sorry for any inconveniences this may cause.

 

[Crimzen]

But imagine... what if I had not been there?

well he probably would have been fine
it sounds like you kind of triggered his bad trip with all the talk of your bad trips

Ijesus
can i ask you a question? its going to seem related but its not necesarily in relation to this situation
Would you take acid with someone and then give them a bad trip? or try to manipulate their feelings or thoughts on something?

 

[Sticki]

Every thing for a reason 8)

I guess you learnt something important here IJC, You should take some time for a deep reflection of your experience.

Altho DMT and other psychedelics may leave no organic imprint, It does not mean they wont leave one on the psyche.

When I smoked DMT I had many thoughts about what I had entered into, instantly connecting visions and thoughts that simultaneously raced thru my mind to religious scriptures and stories. Begining with colourless, heatless flames engulfing the room as tho it has come to take me but finding me still conscious waited for 5 mins and then faded. It felt at the same time like my body was trying to shut down and my soul (As Such) was trying to eject thru an immense rush from my feet to the top of my skull.

I must admit, I was pretty scared
Only for one reason tho, That being I had read a trip report in Strassmans book DMT - The spirit molecule. An account of a patient having a IV dose of DMT and visiting a place where he was surrounded by insect like beings that were eating him and having sex with him In his mind he kept repeating "Gods love conquers all" but these beings telepathicly were asking him and repeating "Even here???"

I do believe these psychedelic substances have a deeper purpose and in the wrong hands can generate the wrong out come. Carefull how you go

 

[Cortexelus]

"Did I just die?" "WHAT THE FUCK DUDE"
"WHAT DID YOU DO TO ME"

It is not dying...

Turn off your mind relax and float down stream...

 

[ophiuchus]

IJC: try not to flatter a negative emotional response like that, especially before or during tripping ever again. you initiated his thought process onto an air of uncertainty, thus helped engage his bad trip. on the fair side, he could have done it alone with the same outcome, but it sounds like you led him to a river of nasty thoughts and then pushed him in, to be honest..

no one should try to CONVINCE anyone of anything, merely present the facts, and variables, and their IQ will take care of the rest. (assuming they're not ignorant, nor an idiot.)

random note: too many people have learned to speak, recant, create, etc, ideas with a negative inflection! just trying to pay attention to how often it's done is a trip in itself.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Here is an update...

Last night, the same kid came over, and we were all drinking, once very intoxicated, he started to present hostility towards me.

It was obvious to him that I didn't understand why he was acting like this. After a while, I realized he was very very angry inside. Not at me, not at anything, but just very angry. He would pretend try and punch me, I wouldn't move because I knew he wasn't going to hit me.

I asked him to give me a hug, at that point he become very, very mad, and was running around my apartment in a frenzy, but semi-laughing. It was at that point I realized this kid is a little bit over the edge, and has some very deep issues he needs to be resolved. I again tried to engage in some kind of compassion for him, but he resented it.

About 10 minutes later, my friends said "Hey! HEY!" And I saw the intoxicated kid bolt out my door and down the hallway.

He had stolen my DMT pipe...

I should have never, ever gave him that. A word to the wiser than me: A friend is a friend, but some things may be stronger than that.

I really wish he could resolve these things without resorting to drugs.

Does anyone have any advice how I approach this from here? I know the initial predicament was my fault completely. But I really don't know what to do from here. Expressing any sort of hostility towards him will not end well, as he has told me he's suicidal and me and my roomates are about his only friends on campus.

God damnit he needs to take a trip into brazil for a few months and work shit out.

 

[Sticki]

Congratulations IJC, You have released a monster...

If your mate truelly is suicidal I suggest you find the right kind of help for him immediately, A good friend of mine and a fellow member of psychonaut recently took his own life. With out a word, Gone in a blink of an eye. I dont know the full circumstances but my thoughts go out to his family.

However IJC, You have a chance to stop this person from a similar fate. Also those who tell others they are going to commit suicide are usually the attention seekers, Those that want a reaction to remind themselves they are valued in some way but accidents do happen in these bids to scare people.

How old is this lad? Why is he hostile to you?

Are you prepared to handle such an event that you are seeing unfold now?

How readily available is mental health treatment in your country / region?
If you consider this person a danger to himself or others he needs help mate.

P.S. How was he in general before the night you gave him the DMT?
Would you say he has changed dramaticlly since then?

 

[Bastiaan]

Arg.. messed up situation :?
My advice:

Well first of all, when introducing someone to a psychedelic experience it is important that you have no second thoughts about it yourself.. otherwise your lack of confidence will make this person anxious, wich is the last thing someone in this position needs obviously.. You need to act as a guide and someone that has the knowledge and knows nothing can go wrong and is very convincingly reassuring of this towards the first timer.
So the set was the problem..
Furthermore you both have to realize that it is his choice and responsibility to use a substance and if he chooses you to be his guide this is still his choice and his responsibility. 'What have you done to me?' is not applicable
I wouldn't recommend your friend using psychedelics anymore obviously, at least until his life and problems have stabilised.
Raised as a Christian.. could be not that bad, could be really bad..

This is a typical example of the price we all pay for living like we do..
without thinking

But that doesn't help you at all of course. I am having a hard time touching this one. My advise is to put some real energy in this kid trying to make him feel appreciated and loved, wich as you said you already tried. I'd say try harder. I can also understand you don't want to be put up with his problems. Be open to him. Speak from your heart exactly what you feel and think not with too much closeness, but not with distance either. It may calm him (or he may punch you of course , it'll be good no matter what, a little black eye is worth this kind of thing). Do realize after this he may be a little dependant towards you. I say be there for him or drop him. Probably best to just be blunt in case you want to do this and just make it clear that you are being selfish and don't want any part of his problems (but make sure to come off in a way that it is not personal!!!) . Anyway this is messed up.. I don't know.. just thoughts

 

[IJesusChrist]

It's a very hard one. I feel resentful that he stole, i feel pitty for his situation, and I truley truley wish him better.

And no... I had an inclination that he has been hiding emotions.

As of right now, I have talked to him very little, I asked for my pipe back and he said he lost it.

I have presented no hostility towards him however, but I know he thinks its there.

I... A long, long, long walk with him would be very good.

He's 19

 

[Sticki]

I think your interactions with this being have caused enough damage already mate, My suggestion is that you reflect on the situation and maybe see less of this person and deffinately do not envolve him in your psychedelic explorations in the future.

In time he may calm down and want to talk about it properly but I suggest waiting till what ever has botherd him comes to the surface, Giving him all the time and space he needs to bring it up with you.