bad cop good cop

[phalaris]

http://peety-passion.com/relax/2007/09/ ... -advocate/

I think this was posted as an comment a while ago, but I cannot seem to find it. It is still good to see some people do come come to their senses. Kinda ironic ,in a way, he's still making money from the war on drugs though.

Shame on him for destroying the life of over 800 persons and letting the government brainwash him.

from the article:

I’ve got over 800 narcotics arrests personally credited, not counting thousands I worked as joint operations.

and

I was taught by the government that evil people smoke marijuana and evil people trafficked it and grew it

I've got very mixed feeling about this guy.

 

[Guest]

He's fighting for the right 'cause, only I don't think it will do any good.

The way he presents himself in Letterman... it's not a very good story he has.
It's not solid enough.

This is probably doing more harm then good...

Bad cop, good cop?
More a case of bad cop, ex-cop

 

[phalaris]

yes, the interview went really (really) badly. That DEA woman just sticked to her dogma and as a result became not very emotional. He on the other hand could not cope with her stupidity and as a result just became quite angry and incoherent. He should work on that.

I agree: he fights for the right cause, but in this way is does more harm than good. Now he could be brushed off like a stupid stoner who should not be taken seriously.

I think we need someone with the right intentions and with great rhetoric skills, someone that *could* lie en deceit with the same agility that the agencies themselves showed over the years and stil be sound of heart.

The guy has already made second order reflections on his belief system; he managed to take a step back and wonder: "hey, am I doing and thinking this right ?" The woman, or any other of the drug'R'bad flock, just remains in the safety or her dogma *knowing* they are right. Stating fact will only help a bit; this discussion goes far deeper than that. It is really about the fundamental convictions one has about life.

So instead of stating that drug X or Y is not harmfull to the health (which is irrelevant to the discussion I believe), people should be triggered into second order reflections about their beliefs on drugs. That is a really difficult task: just try to imagine someone is telling you the earth is flat, while you believe it is spherical.

The interview actually kept me awake for a few hours last night, I was that appalled by the dogmatic reasoning of the woman and his inability to counter her lies. But I was equally appalled by the realization that I would do no better job than he did; I too would freak out at such blatant ignorance.

So, a better spokesman would be someone with the following skills:

-natural charisma
-brilliant speaker
-understanding on the workings of various drugs
-experience with psychedelics
-encyclopedic knowledge of drug safety studies
-educated in psychology
-educated in philosophy
-educated in law
-educated in politic
-?

hmm, seems we need a SuperHero

 

[buffachino]

Well, I don’t think one man can experience and procure all of this asserted, coherent wisdom on a wide range of substance avocation or seeming objectivism without seeming biased or even contradictory to their own argument toward those in a standpoint opposite to their own; not in an evangelical and financial sense as this guy seems to be doing.

I agree that we need better and more experienced speakers; if only a conference could bring us all together and we could have our say without needing to be in any particular field or have seemingly superior expertise on any one area of academic research and just explain and reiterate on the ups and downs of the experiences themselves; the pool of knowledge would be a lot richer and less inane to the point of being an unending recursive debate that never solves anything. We need to separate reality from imposed reality.

You need the entire range of opinions and experiences of those seeming standpoints to gain anything of real use to those who are being persecuted and silenced by the dogmatic approach of the substance Gestapo. You can’t have absolutist, monotheistic rhetoric firing off at one another as seen in this vid, its just doesn’t work; much like prohibition itself and the recycled lies that drive its enforcement.

If anything is to be done, we need a growing and continuously changing team or force of real people, who understand and advocate an open, expanded and critical view of their own use and the projected and cultural factors of that use for those who have been uninformed or misinformed to the point where they are only stressing the closed debate and giving more bad wrap and fodder to those who wish freedom of experience caged within oppression and enforced concepts or closed reality.

We need to end the lies and open a pantheon of free expansion of experience and the understanding that grows from this expression.

Peace.

 

[spice]

It reduces simply;

Worship of tradition

Worship of Industry and Institution

What phalaris said goes to the heart of it....these attitudes are transmitted generationally, father-to-son, the same EXACT way that,say, hunting, or fishing is. When you have the full trust of an open young mind, indoctrination is simple. The key here being trust.

To re-examine ones attitudes, to 'second-order reflect', one must allow the possibility to enter ones mind that it is necessary. So, somehow, there must be a seed of doubt. Usually, for robots like the police, these seeds of doubt are falling on fallow ground, but occasionally one sprouts, and then doubt sets in. Once that happens, its like a house of cards, and very precariously balanced.


As anyone living in modern civilization knows, 'having our say' has become watered down to the point of inanity. The signal to noise ratio is insane. Television has created a society of vegetating androids. Not everyone 'has' a say.

Tradition is also to blame for much of this mess, and tradition is doubly dangerous in America, since it is marketed as an institution. Ponder that.

There is a double standard which exists in my society pertaining to tradition...when I , personally have a habit, any habit, say, smoking weed, the fact that I have semantically identified my like for smoking as a 'habit' invites, no, demands, classification. Is it a 'good' habit (like brushing my teeth) or a bad habit?

But 'tradition'? Taboo to speak out against that....tradition is usually wrapped in the flag or old memories of mom and dad. It is armored against the very good/bad classification that my weed smoking habit is vulnerable to, and this armor comes from CONVENTION ( the tacit agreement we have all made not to fuck with this as an idea).

This means Leary, Mckenna, et al were on to something;

Attack tradition and institutions, for these are the spawning ground for the wrongs we debate.

 

[GOD]

Grassers / informers should be PUNISHED . An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth as the bible says . A traitor is a traitor and stays one . Wait till one of the bastards ruins your and your familys lives and puts you in prison and you will understand . The world is full of people who claim to have found jesus and seen the light and been cured . I would definately help them to find jesus ...... the direct way .

 

[spice]

amen.

 

[spice]

amen.

 

[GOD]

Seems like the site software has hickups . That double post thing happened to me several times in the last few days . As i`m feeling more than a little pissed off at the moment I will dare to clarify my personal opinion .

MR.Moderator , if you dont like it wipe it please ....AND NOT ME .

I think one should be ultra fair and honest with every person , wether profesional = the forces of evil or amateure informers that betray people for using sacraments = arrest them at 3 am by kicking their doors in like they do , and then give them an extensive fair trial , allow them to explain , call witnesses and appologise . And then at 2 secs. past 3am put their heads in the gutter and give them a neck shot .

In my defence i have had my door kicked in and even had guns stuck up my nose LOADS of times , they even did an abu graib on me once = anal rape with a glass rod in front of about 12 laughing and cheering other pigs .

 

[spice]

They got me, though luckily I didnt have to go through those extremes.

It sucked to go through it, but growth is pain. I sat in one of their cages for about 5 years. But they made me smarter and angrier than I was before.

Bad for them.

 

[GOD]

Jeez , 5 years in an american prison must have been real mega SHIT . I´d rather that i stayed the mental dwarf that i am than get that sort of growth pain . And how senseless of them , thats pure vindictive revenge not a way of stoping "crime" . Thank god that i cant get a visa for america , i wouldnt last 10 minutes without getting nailed for something . I´d probably get 50 years for my anti satan bush the nazi rants !!! ( no offence ment ) I`ve just been listening to him outlining his plans to save the world from the climate colaps.... as long as he doesnt have to do anything to endanger his friends at haliburton and the carlyl syndicat making money . I dont understand why he can veto everything and not get rightly labeled as a dictator , that isnt democracy .

 

[????????]

-natural charisma
-brilliant speaker
-understanding on the workings of various drugs
-experience with psychedelics
-encyclopedic knowledge of drug safety studies
-educated in psychology
-educated in philosophy
-educated in law
-educated in politic
-?

What we need is more Terrence McKeennas

 

[spice]

GOD- yes, it was an ordeal for sure. First offense, too. Scared the hell out of them, apparently.

No offense taken whatsoever regarding that piece of shit G. Bush.

I'd like to speak to that as well....


He doesn't speak for all Americans. The problem is that everyone has forgotten the revolutionary roots that created the whole concept of an ' America' in the first place. People in this country are generally mentally weak. We have become, literally, prisoners of our comforts.
No amount of constitutional violations, or governmental wrongs will alter Americas love of the Ipod, and automobiles. Until these artificial nipples are removed (or the threat of their loss imminent) no one will care.
We tend to trust our government WAYYYY too much. This trust is hammered into us from the time we can comprehend English, in as many ways as they can come up with.

Those motherfuckers are masters of spin and word-twisting, too.

When reality begins reading like a George Orwell novel, it's past time to panic.

Take for instance the word 'conservative'.....Originally, this was used to refer to being conservative in straying from hard-won constitutional priveliges. But, somehow, they turned the meaning of the word inside out, so that what 'conservative' means now is entirely different than the archaic meaning. Now, 'conservative' is just a descriptor for someone who feels they are at the top rank of a modern day caste
system, just like the one in India that everyone recognizes as all kinds of fucked up.....but here's the kicker....you have people here in my part of America that exist AT THE POVERTY LEVEL riding around in their 18 year old truck with george bush stickers on the window.

The only thing their 'conservatism' is going to conserve is the fact that their children will grow up poor and ignorant.....generational transmission of ideas is where its at. The govy has been knowing this a long time. Thats why they invented Indoctrination Facilities to brainwash our childres, starting around age 5, which is about as soon as people will surrender their young to strangers without a fight.
What these facilities are called?

schools.

 

[GOD]

I was just about to send you this as a PM ,

High Spice ,

I hope my anti bush rant diddnt hurt / anoy or in any way piss you off . It wasnt supposed to . It wasnt aimed at you personaly . I`m glad you are here , your opinions , experience and chemistry knowledge are , in my opinion , much needed here .

GOD

but now i`ve read your amazingly acurate and honest post here i`ll do it this way . I have never given up on the american people , i`m sure that the majority of them are good people and will wake up someday , and i hope and pray its soon . They are the only ones who can save the world from bush and the political mafia that is hidden behind him that has taken controle of america , by emancipating themselves and going back to the original ideas that america was built on . I am hoping that they will realise what realy happened on 911 , if they do they will hang bush and his friends and masters from the nearest tree .

Its not just the schools though , its the whole of the media , like parots chanting the same old pack of lies over and over again till the people believe it .

 

[phalaris]

It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.

-Voltaire


It has been increasingly obvious for years now that the western world is slowly turning into a technocratic/corpocratic kingdom led by the white elite of America. This has already proceeded to the point that our new kings are becoming more open about this:

'We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years." "It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries'

This was said during the Bilderberg conferentie (1991) by David Rockefeller.

Source: http://www.meervrijheid.nl/?pagina=1430
(sorry, only in Dutch)


I believe it is best to use their doubletalk and put it to good use; just get your degree/job/whatever 'normal' occupation and perform a nice socially accepted show. Meanwhile lobby,network and influence as much as one can to educate family/friends and colleges. Remember: one knows every person on this planet in only 3~5 steps. This means that ideas can spread quite far if the message is just powerfull enough.

Good posts GOD, Spice. I don't really know what to say else. I am glad you survived the encounters with the power-hungry legal apparatus. I've seen how bizar their logic (or absence) of logic can be as a witness in a trial of a friend of mine. Jerks.

---

What we need is more Terrence McKeennas

Do you really think so ?
Sure, he had many nice ideas. But certainly not all ideas should be taken that seriously or at least literally. I personally liked his corny sqeeky voice, but I image that many people would be turned off by it.. So more 'Terrence McKeennas' would be cool, but not as representatives for the psychedelic community in interviews and such.

 

[Dantediv86]

I think we need more "spice" as well it's important to know a good deal of chemistry
and as an Italian author (Beppe Grillo for those interested) said in 1998 in one of his books the real communists are those leaders that kiss the american governments ass (but this was in response to one of the latest Berlusconi's (an italian polititian, king of Mafia, curruption and all that has to do with it) quote :"In a few years we will have debellated communism"
p.s. communism is a utopic ideal it never exhisted and never will at human levels naturally

 

[GOD]

Phalaris , I totaly agree about what you said about uncle Terrance and the part about lobbying , forming social networks and educating all the people around us . I also like the Voltaire quote , i also had one from him i had been saving in case i got threatened with banishment again , but i lost it , and unfortunately i havent got a cat to blame it on . But it went something like this:-

"I might not like the things that you say , but i will fight to the death for you to have the right to say them" .

If any one is disshonest or has weak nerves DONT READ ANY FURTHER . For the site royalty and the moderators what i say after this point is my opinion :-

Here are a few FACTS .

Its amazing what the real mafia dons say about their world conspiracy to abolish democracy and personal rights and personal choice when they think that no one is listening or paying atention . But i think if a person listens to the things that are going on in the world and has the courage and intelligence to sift out the nesecery pieces of the puzzle and put them together , that the picture is clear . The social / political parables that George Orwell wrote , "1984" and "Animal farm" , to let the ordinary peoples of the world know what is going on behind our backs , are still perfect descriptions of how we are beeing betrayed , used , enslaved and financialy managed and cheated by a few mafia dons and their lodges , syndicates and cartells . The story of berlusconi and the P2 lodge that he was / is part of demonstrates exactly what is going on in the background in the world . They controle the press , parlaments , courts and the police and live outside of regulare society with their political imunity . States within states run by untouchables . And every time anyone gets near to unraveling the mystery of the obvious conspiracy and making it public they either get killed , are discredited , called mentaly ill or the mafia says "How can you say that with no proof" . After using the whole aparatus of government control to make sure the truth doesnt come out . The obvious facts about 911 are the perfect example of that , of how the real conspirators can get away with mass murder by discrediting the truth as conspiracy theorys . As spice said the american public is driving around in rusty chevis with their "support the republicans" stickers on and have been brain washed into thinking that they live in the land of the free . That they have to go to foreign countrys to defend "the homeland" and "freedom" in the war against islam !!!!

No one seems to have noticed that the governments , that are supposed to be public servants , our servants , have turned the tables round , moved the goal posts and are treating us like criminals . Remember , they wouldnt tell us the facts about the holocausts in Iraq , Afghanistan and Palastine because if they did the "terrorists" would know what is going on ? They talk about wanting to have democracy in the middle east and when the Palastinians democraticaly vote for who they want they are treated like the nazis treated the jews in the Warsaw ghetto . Wall them in , starve them out , cut off their power and water , freeze their bank acounts , bomb them and ultra right wing death squads "accidentaly" take pot shots at women and children on the beaches with big calaber cannons from war ships enforcing a total blockade .

Freedom fighters like his holyness sheik Osama Bin Ladin , who has sent us 25 videos , and Mr.Al zahwiri who has sent us other videos , sent them to us to let us know what is going on and why so many people are sacrifising their lives to try to stop their persecution . Have we seen one single one ? The presedent of Iran just came over to tell us what he thinks and we werent allowed to see or hear anything about it or see the videos of his speaches or interviews . He faced the press club , 600 students at columbia university , the united nations and did an interview with C.N.N. and we were alowed to see nothing . The only thing we heard about was his stupid claim that there are no homosexuals in Iran , the rest was censored . I did manage to see 1 hour of the columbia university event and he walked rings around the people putting the questions . He showed his courage and honesty and in a fair analysis he won all of the points exept two . When he started talking about the american war crimes around the world the interview was censored . The same thing happened when the president of Uganda did the same at the united nations a few days ago . The problems in Uganda are at least partly due to the trade enbargo against Uganda and can not all can be put down to the presedent of Uganda being a dictator , if he is one . I`m not saying that i like all of the people i have mentioned , or what they say and do , i`m just saying that we have the right to hear everything that they say and make our own judgements . otherwise we are just slaves and there is no democracy . Just cannon food , animals standing in line for the slaughter house .

To the bit about communism , and all the other isms , as John Lennon called them in "Give peace a chance" . There are only two sorts of systems , Totalitarian repression or democracy , and there are no , and there have never been any democracys . Did anyone vote to kill the jews in dachau ? , for the holocaust in Darfur ? , for 17 years of war crimes in Iraq ? , for the slow genocide in Palastine or to kill the planetary weather system ?

Utopia is a word with two definitions . Depending on if you are blind or a member of the ruling political mafia it means "A silly unreachable dream " and if you are a normal , honest person "The best of all worlds" . I personaly want to live in the best of all worlds = one where we are educated to think for ourselves , where we are open and loving people , brothers and sisters with equal rights , where we know that honesty and responsibility is the best way to co . Where we make the decisions that we have to carry the concequencys of . Where we are allowed to love each other and be happy and not forced to live in the nightmare world that we live in now .

The only solution is educating ourselves and the people around us and informing them of our slavery and what we can do to reach freedom . We still have the democratic right to vote , they have left us one democratic , non violent way out :-

GO AND VOTE AND SPOIL YOUR VOTES , THEY ARE ALL COUNTED , AND WHEN WE SEE THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION HAVE SPOILED THEIR VOTES , WE GO ON THE STREETS AND INTRODUCE DEMOCRACY .

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hatred." Wow !!! and i thought it leads to Las Vegas ????

 

[Dantediv86]

I really like ihow you put it and
really
like the arguments you present
but there is one point that puzzled me and it's this one

Freedom fighters like his holyness sheik Osama Bin Ladin , who has sent us 25 videos , and Mr.Al zahwiri who has sent us other videos , sent them to us to let us know what is going on and why so many people are sacrifising their lives to try to stop their persecution .

I think "his Holyness" is a bit of an exageration
he was put in Afghanistan by the CIA and as any good polititian is Bin trying to gain more power over a larger number of people what he did was playing their game and when he wanted more he did like the Italians in the II WW turned sides when he saw the boat was sinking...and he turned himself freedom fighter did his nice videos to support the, muslim, public opinion and keep people distracted form the greater plan...as a matter of fact i believe that stinky bastard is enjoying himself somewhere else covered by some powerful organization's protection...they are NOT freedom fighters they are just playing their part in their game

 

[GOD]

I understand what you mean . But they didnt put him in Afghanistan , and i dont think that he went there for them or in their name or for their interests , they did gave him money though , and he used it to fight the russians . The enemy of my enemy is my friend , as long as he is giving me money to fight my enemys . I would take money from anyone if i could use it to legalise drugs . But i wouldnt betray my own ideals for money . And i dont think we could say that he has betrayed his either . He has spent millions of his own money doing good things like building roads , schools and houses for poor people across the muslim world . I am also a bit suspicious about where he is though he must be being protected by someone , and its obvious that the amis dont realy want to find him as well . The guy is at least 25 centemeters bigger than all his folowers , and he has diabetes and needs dyalisis . A dyalisis machine is about as big as a fridge and needs to be kept CLEAN . Also im not certain if the last video realy showed him , it could have been a look a like . And whos holy , the romans thought that jesus was a terrorist . And loads of people around the world think that the pedophile in rome is holy , allthough he is responsible for lots of child sex . I do think that bin ladin is a better person than george w . though . I put the word holy in there intentionaly to make people examine their opinions , to show that there are people who do believe he is holy , that there is more to the picture than meets the eye . Lets wait to see how the game goes and then make judgements of who did what and why when we know what has realy happened . As i said the picture we have of him comes from their press propoganda machine and we havent been alowed to see any of his videos , so i will keep an open mind on the subject . Maybe i`m a bit biased against the american government because i have been forced to watch their lies and war crimes day in and day out all my life on T.V.. They have caused one war after another since the second world war , and always called their enemys terrorists . Funily enough though they have never won any of those wars . Just like they have no chance of winning this one . As you say there is a big game going on out there and george ws friends will make money as long as the game goes on . and neither of us can be certain of exactly what is going on wich means to me that i personaly wouldnt take sides in the big game and call him a stinky bastard .

 

[Dantediv86]

any world leader is a stinky bastard
you've got to be one to get into the world leadership scene
Maybe Gandhi wasn't and probably not at all, mhm that figures why they killed him
there's no saving
and, just on question he built roads around the muslim world destroying world heritage sites?
i know that of Gandhi's there was only one
but you don't encourage the destroying of thousand years old statues cause they are blasphemous
then you are no different from G.W Bush the stinkiest of puppets
i do take sides btw
mine
'cause i know none of them will ever take it