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about the Illuminati psychedelic conspiracy theory

itsscience

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EndlessEntity a dit:
could be but doesnt explain why they have to have "secret builderburg meetings"
which btw it is illegal for U.S. Government officials to meet with foreign officials concerning foreign and domestic policy without notifying the public.

Govt officials meeting with foreign officials concerning foreign and domestic policy is not a private citizen negotiating with a foreign govt - it is two governments meeting - there's nothing sinister about it, it happens all the time and would be a spectacular waste of time to expressly tell the public each time it is going to happen.

Jumping at shadows can be fun but usually leads nowhere.
 

EndlessEntity

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i've read alot about the meetings and its not just government officials its citizens too and lots of wall street and oil industry people
 

zezt

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EndlessEntity a dit:
i've read alot about the meetings and its not just government officials its citizens too and lots of wall street and oil industry people

"The press are represented inside Bilderberg (in our photos you'll see, for example, the CEO of the Washington Post and the editor-in-chief of the Economist) but they're not talking. What happens in Bilderberg stays in Bilderberg. Except for policy. That gets everywhere." http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/20 ... elton-2010
 

ophiuchus

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darkwolfunseen a dit:
I can start with Scotland, or I can start in France, or talk about Egyptian history... hell even the Roman baths, all of it has marks of "secret societies". What I cannot understand is why someone would call that a big fucking deal. You're telling me some humans got together, and tried to pretend that they are more elite than other humans because they're now allowed into the house?

I'm not saying that there weren't many travesties as well as many large events that weren't to some degree manufactured for the purposes of human subjugation. What I am saying is that the fact that humans have tried to control one another, pretty much proves our own inadequacies as a species. Yes, animals have the common courtesy of following the rules of nature (i.e. brawn, strength, etc. wins), whereas we have to manipulate, con, cheat, and pretend, but the point is still the same.

Given an infinite amount of raw mental processing power, we have chosen to descend into playing puppet-master rather than transcend beyond caring about who/whats in control.

So yeah waygie, you're right, government and people have tried to do everything they can to condition us. Then they counter-conditioned us. Then they just played with themselves a little bit. Then they conditioned us again. Why are you acting that this information is so secret or private. It's not hard to understand that the people we are today is an outcome of people who tried to control us in the past (whether that be parents, religious figures, teachers, government officials, or whoever else spit into your sub-conscience while you weren't looking)?

I think there comes a point in everyone's journey, if they've gotten past that realization, when they see that to transcend they must be able to get past the exclusivity of this so-called "private information", and learn to be one with the bigger entity at hand. I mean if you are in tune with the universe, the world doesn't seem so important.

Sorry for the rant but I had a loooong night.

+1.
ijesuschrist a dit:
If you think you can condense socio-economic actions of a country, nation, or even the world down to a person, group, or even large community, you are terribly mistaken. The complexity of sociological ideologies that govern the way we think, the way we shop, the way we learn, and what we believe in are so much more complex than what a single group could ever have done.

ijc, look up the "bilderberg group". it's a very real group of people that are heads of some of the largest corporations around. the location they meet changes each year, and it is a very private thing. alex jones has tried to access one of the hotels that they meet in once but was strictly not allowed to enter the hotel. you can find this video online if you look.

i totally agree that it's not one group of people scheming against society like conspiracy theorist would think. but what is real is, these people meet, talk, are friends, and therefore influence each other, which directly translates into, what companies, target what demographics, and how those ads are presented to the viewers. so it is very subliminal in this respect, but it is NOT secret. their evidence is literally EVERYWHERE you look. ADS ADS ADS ADS ADS oh and some more ADS. your youtube is littered with subliminal messages now, so is your radio, we thought we escaped it with online radio, but no, now we've got ads for that too. the number of ads that you have been subjected to has grown SIGNIFICANTLY in just the past year, not to mention from when say, myspace and youtube just came to be popular...


"The secret meeting... what happened? It's a secret. Because it's a secret doesn't mean they want to control the world, and they don't. They want people to act the same, and they want people to buy the same. This is NOT a conspiracy. This IS capitalism. Realize this!!!!"

can't you see, it doesn't matter what the fuck you call it, it's the same force. you are talking about the same thing. capitalism is, schemeing, CONSPIRING to touch the most people it can and with this generate as much money as it can, and the CEO will only push his personal views (which are definitely influenced by his social groups)! for instance walmart wont sell cd's with explicit lyrics. this is an example of personal views of the ceo, being essentially forced upon people because finding a walmart is going to be much easier and convenient (there's a walmart everywhere) than any other single store, this eliminates competition. it's not secret, it's right up in everyones damn face. call it what you like, but in reality it doesn't have a name. people will try to persuade people into following them, even if their running off a cliff. it makes the first group kind of feel like they have a REAL purpose, meaning. but what does this do in REALITY?
 

ophiuchus

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from psychosis; its coming
shamanomenon
shamanomenon a dit:
"I spent most of my life thinking that I was crazy until I started doing psychedelics and learned the truth about reality.

The simple fact is that we are all just lost souls. We're all just bumbling shells, walking around, bumping into things, trying to interpret our senses, communicate with each other and figure out some semblance of purpose. And when you can realize that, then it's not hard to break down the various systems of belief that are in place and realize that they are all meaningless conjecture. In truth, we really have no clue about anything. All of our perceptions and beliefs are skewed by the filtering process that occurs between unconscious and conscious states. Not to mention that our species is completely isolated in our own thinking.

Let's put it this way. As fundamental units, we are completely ignorant, yet at the same time we have the power to literally create our own reality. Maybe this was the intended point. Regardless... When you look at each individual as a wholly self-sufficient vessel who has the power to create their own reality, then you see that there is no such thing as "crazy."

We're all just trying to survive and create the world that we want to live in. Parents, schools, churches, organizations, governments, psychologists, scientists, etc... they all have one common agenda and that is to get as many people as possible to subscribe to their "reality." If you have a different perspective then they label you as diseased.

Sadly, this system isn't in place to give people freedom and to allow them to follow their dreams and reach their full potential. It's nothing more than an effort to exert power, create ignorance and give you just enough to keep you from revolting.

Psychedelics we're phased out of religions for this exact reason. And they're outlawed by governments for this exact reason.

Personally, I don't really believe in all these "mental disorders." I think that the vast majority of disorders are nothing more than warning signs that our unconscious is trying to convey to our conscious minds. You've got ADD? No you don't... Your unconscious is just trying to tell you that you're on the wrong path. Are you depressed? Well, no crap, this world is a horrible place and every day we are having more and more freedoms taken away and becoming slaves of a society, rather than owners of our reality. But you know... Instead of actually listening to these warning signs and exploring our own minds and desires, most people just want to take a bunch of pills and forget about it all.

It's the same thing with our bodies and diets. We're filling our bodies with nothing but toxins and synthetic crap.

Life has become so unnatural in every aspect and as far as I am concerned, humanity has wandered off on some obsessive thought and abandoned all hope.

Realize that the world is backwards, people are ignorant, everything is unnatural and that we are all slaves... I spent my whole life trying to fit into the system, but it wasn't until I realized all of these things to be true that I was able to rise above it and begin to truly live for the first time. You just have to cut against the grain and create your own reality regardless of what the system tells you. That's the only way anyone will ever truly be happy."
(edit: i wasn't clear enough before, virtually this entire post was shamanomenon's, and it was hard to tell my two cents, but all i wrote on this post is what's below. my point being just that someone else could, and did say it, as good, or better than i would've.)

its the same!!
 

zezt

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WOW Allusion, that is one of the most insightful, and intelligent posts I have seen!
I agree with all you say.
In the last few days I have watched two videos---'The New American Century' (which I have linked in another forum), and 'The Obama Deception'. Although I wouldn't have called myself in any way naive before, I humbly admit to being very chocked to dig the fukin situation this world is in.
I love it where you say how if we are honest we dont really know what's what! This is very true and this is very frightening to understand when you realize the power that this group of utterly debauched and dehumanized has at its disposal.
What do you do--how do you cope--what does it do to your head and soul to look into all this? What is OUR strategy?
 

ophiuchus

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Zezt:"I love it where you say how if we are honest we dont really know what's what!"

which part do you mean? maybe you could go back and quote me so i can help to explain myself. i noticed that i did a bad job of quoting shamanomenon in my last post but i fixed it, you didn't mean something from his post did you? either way, a direct quote would help me clarify...

"What do you do--how do you cope--what does it do to your head and soul to look into all this? What is OUR strategy?"

well, as far as "what can we do?" i think it's important now, at the present moment, as far as practical AND small scale goes(which definitely DOES make a difference), to first of all take that matter of convenience into consideration, you know? like is it REALLY that far out of the way to go to the other store, the one we may agree with a little more, or at least see as the underdog. also, maybe one can plan ways to make the drive more efficient to them, by consolidating multiple trips into one, or bringing a friend who may need stuff from the same store, but who all to often succumbs to the convenience of corporate giants being everywhere... maybe make a thing out of it, so they drive sometimes and you drive sometimes or w/e. get creative :D .

secondly, and probably most importantly, one must be an aware consumer. know what you are buying before you buy it. if there's a home remedy that does the same job, then take it! don't spend money where it isn't needed. south park said it well with their "margaritaville" episode, dunno if you watch that.
but essentially, one of the boys parents got some shitty half assed machine that makes margaritas and it broke, so they tried to return it and end up going to the store, they can't return it, then they end up on wall street to find out where the money goes, and they jump through all these hoops going to different places, and everyone claiming that they dont have the money, because it keeps goin and going on down the line, until they'd jumped through so many hoops that their heads were spinning on where the money ACTUALLY GOES. from wiki:"Margaritaville" reflected Parker and Stone's belief that most Americans view the economy in the same way as religion, in that it is seldom understood but seen as an important, elusive entity. The Margaritaville blender featured in the episode serves as a metaphor for American consumerism, as well as the housing bubble." did you know that corporations are legally allowed to sponsor campaigns??

see competition is key in any system. if you start giving money to the big guys, then you're helping eliminate competition. but if you start giving money to the competition, then you are doing as much as can be done, which is the biggest favor, for everyone. because it's no longer YOU thats feeding them. you become part of the SOLUTION instead of part of the PROBLEM. its so simple yet really the only way to be effective.

how do i cope? i rest at night knowing that i do what i can to inform everyone i meet of this mindset in one way or another. you don't have to be overt and over the top and give large examples like these all of the time in order to clue people in. these are a way to communicate without any common ground, so it's necessary that they are long messages so that they cover all the bases and no one gets left out. plus, you were already interested before you started reading all that. but in your "normal" "average" encounter (i don't believe in one) it's gonna be harder to slip a large bit of info like that into a "regular" conversation. but on a small scale, if you throw out a random fact that someone might not know, where it's appropriate, then those people are gonna go "wait, what'd you say?" and then you've got them hooked. just dont bore the person try to keep the main point close by and try to cover some bases along the way, but make sure to get to the point before you're interrupted and it's a job well done. if you're interrupted, you've probably lost it (the mic, or their attention). but if they get curious and another question is asked, then you just successfully educated however many people in proximity were listening, which has potential to be a big thing. see, it's not always about the RIGHT point of view, so much as it is about having BOTH points of view(or as many as possible), from which the "real" one becomes ever so clearer. and technology is making this so much easier.

idk, i will say that my mind very naturally has the tendency to break things down into this complex system of things, but ultimately all that is necessary for you to help others (and yourself) gain this kind of awareness is to find multiple sources for everything (internet is easy, i like to avoid tv at all costs) and just try to stay current on what's happening in the world. that's all we can try to do is educate us and the people around us, even if we dont particularly care about them. because ultimately, as we have seen, even (and especially) the people we don't particularly care for, will have some effect, be it large or small, on you and the people who you DO care about' lives. so start small, that way it's hardly an inconvenience, there's a time and a place for grandiose schemes for protesting and unibombing and what have you, but the system is perfectly changeable from the inside of it, as well as outside of it, because, in reality there is no difference between the two.
 

itsscience

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see competition is key in any system. if you start giving money to the big guys, then you're helping eliminate competition. but if you start giving money to the competition, then you are doing as much as can be done, which is the biggest favor, for everyone. because it's no longer YOU thats feeding them. you become part of the SOLUTION instead of part of the PROBLEM. its so simple yet really the only way to be effective.

Here is the interesting paradox. Competition is the key and it was the competitive edge of companies like Walmart, Starbucks etc that allowed them to become the corporate giants they are (which in turn provides employment for hundreds of thousands of people - workforces that cannot be sustained by small local operators). Walmart didn't just spring into existence as a giant corporation, it started out as one store which was very good at competing with it's competitors which enabled it to expand and become what it is today - huge multi-national corporation employing hundreds of thousands of people all over the world.

The message in the South Park "Margaritaville" episode was relatively simply, the economy is not a religion it is a human construct which works on the principles of supply and demand. Withholding spending will not end recession but responsible spending will help end recession. If you've actually watched the episode you will know that at the end the economy was saved by people going back to the malls and buying things like the upgraded Margaretaville. Another good episode of South Park, which highlights the effect of competition is the "Starbucks" episode.

The world is not black and white. Remember this, if Nike, Reebok and so many others were to close their factories in China and other countries (where they are accused of paying too little to workers), where do you think those workers will find work? Do you think they will thank the Western activists sitting back in their armchairs deciding what is right for them? No, they will hate them for taking away the only employment they could hope for.
 

IJesusChrist

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^1+. You say everything I want to say.

well. but beyond that;

Are these chinese, or mexican workers of greater benefit due to starbucks? The Jungle by Upton Sinclair is a perfect example of what starbucks and these giant companies do- they advertise permanent jobs, continueing wages, but workers must move from the country to the city.

Within the city rents are higher and health and safety become diminished (in third world industrial areas). These current workers rely on these companies like those holding on to a rope from fear of death. If the company dies, they may be unemployed, and unemployment in a 3rd world slum can mean death. The city itself, the idea of the city being the holder of economic promise is what is at fault, and that idea stems from capitalism. That the CITY is the center - that WORK is the center, not people, not parks, not socialization, but production.

Naive individuals see the rows of lights, the abundance of wealth, power... they work within it, but never achieve. Once they are in - they are in. Getting out is not possible - hence the reason more people live in cities now than in the country and rural areas. Only the privelaged can sell their homes for funds to move, for funds to buy land by the acre, away from the city, away from the nike, the reebok, the industry.

Nothing is black and white. Nothing is simple. There is no democracy, fascism, anarchy, capitalism, socialism, communism - the only thing that exists is a great blend of beliefs and morals. Some naive, some valid, some tormented and confusing.

Nothing is black and white.
 

itsscience

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That the CITY is the center - that WORK is the center, not people, not parks, not socialization, but production.

Well said.

This is what we should all be worried about because this is the real power. It's not the power of a group or an individual but the power of a concept that we are all so bound up with it is virtually impossible to escape.

At its essence it's the power of habit and repetition and it started with no more agenda than simple convenience. It was more convenient for Gok to trade some of his corn for Gak's pig than for Gok to raise corn and pigs (trade) - step forward 500 years and human experience has found that it's not always easy for Gak's ancestors to get their pigs to Gok's ancestors even though Gok's ancestors are the only ones growing corn - much easier for Gak to sell the pigs to a third party for some gold and then Gak's ancestors use that gold to buy some corn from Gok's ancestors - Hey presto money is born and economics springs into being.

Fast forward 2,000 years and the practice of using money to buy things (instead of trading goods) has become so entrenched that we are all now specialists - we specialise in one area only in order to earn our money to buy things. The result is that we are now tied to the cycle because we have lost the ability to provide for ourselves (to be self sustainable). I have to continue to sell my services to earn enough money to pay my mortgage, the kids school fees, food, water, electricity, health insurance and the list goes on and on and on.

We are all of us trapped in this false cycle, both the exceedingly poor and the exceedingly rich (yea even those attending Bilderberg meetings). This is the world order you are talking about and it has a life of its own, independant of even the bilderberg group. It is a monster and I know of no way to beat it other than:

Only the privelaged can sell their homes for funds to move, for funds to buy land by the acre, away from the city, away from the nike, the reebok, the industry.

So I for one will not bother with conspiracy theories and how to beat the illuminati, I will focus on how to use the system to generate enough wealth to be able to buy the land to become self sufficient. Not because I'm selfish but because try as I might I can see no way to change the economic system we have (even if I went to the local store down the road from Walmart it wouldn't change anything because if enough people did that the local store would make more money and would expand so it makes more money and suddenly instead of shopping at the local store you suddenly find you're shopping at Walmart's competitor).
 

IJesusChrist

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Your last paragraph I strongly disagree with. Not all business owners (ma and pop) want to make a big corporation.

There is a company iin canada that is the ultimate utopia in my eyes for business. What it does is it takes surplus goods or goods that have been essentially "thrown" away, and it attempts to re-use them for other purposes. Anything from lab equipment to recycled 2x4's.

They are so succesful their business becomes too large for their people's heads. And since this is not a homogenous production - one product made by one company, or even one "genre" of products - the bigger the company gets the exponentially more complex the business becomes.

So what happens? When they get enough funds they split. They attempt to go to a new urbanized area of the country and begin a new business, same intentions.

It's the bottom feeders that are now rising - or atleast rising to a point where they are all comfortable in the business. The people who run this business are usually very intelligent people as well - as they need to look at a product from every possible angle an dpossibility.

I love it. I wish I knew the name of it :)
 

itsscience

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It's true that not all business owners want to make a big corporation but the vast majority of business owners want to make money and everyone has their price.

There are always exceptions to every generality and the canadian company you mentioned seems an example. However, most businesses, when they become succesful, will expand into something much bigger or be bought out by someone much bigger. So in the end something started by ma and pop, if successful, outgrows ma and pop and evolves into something other than what ma and pop envisaged but what do they care, they've made their money and can move on.

It sounds cynical as I type it but this is the monster of commerce as I see it.
 

IJesusChrist

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There are extremely succesful coffee shops around here that will always turn down a buy out.
Bars as well...
Theatres...

It's the people who are in the business to spread what they think is right, and to allow others to take some of their kindness. These are the people who defy capitalism.

Those who open up a chain restaraunt, gas station, movie theatre, or any other corporate or franchise opportunity - these people are in it for the money solely.

I would argue that every single person that opens up a corporate franchise business of some sort, does not give a damn about any customers, unless it has them coming back for more.

Some businesses can only operate on large scales because demand is so wide spread. I respect that. There are also the industries that feed the masses, such as steel, poulty, cattle, and electronics.

My counter point, FOR industrialization and capitalism is this:
If large companies like IBM, GOOGLE, Steel & metal industries, Car industries, etc... If these were to ALL fail, or if the companies that made these companies run would FAIL, we would not be able to reach the advancement we are in at this moment for another 50+ years.

It's kind of like a stack of cards - capitalism is built in such a way that the very framework simple technologies and advancments are neglected now and everything is run at speeds and with computers that are impossibly complicated. If the engineering company that builds the robots that put together silicon wafers and circuit boards, cars and trucks, computers and tv's - if this company(s) failed simultaneously so would the companies that feed off them, and our entire technology would be reduced to the 1980's if not earlier. I think its just interesting to think about.

Edit: Actual point if you didn't get it is that without capitalism, the strive for this high grade technology (whether good or bad) would not exist. I would not be able to communicate with all of you on a daily basis without the accelerating force of capitalism.

Beyond that here is a real conspiracy theory that is still happening today (google FBI raids - same thing):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
 

ophiuchus

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i like the flow of this, but i do have something to clarify from my original point.

itsscience: "So I for one will not bother with conspiracy theories and how to beat the illuminati, I will focus on how to use the system to generate enough wealth to be able to buy the land to become self sufficient."

my plan ends at the same destination, although carries a slightly different tune along the way.

" Not because I'm selfish but because try as I might I can see no way to change the economic system we have (even if I went to the local store down the road from Walmart it wouldn't change anything because if enough people did that the local store would make more money and would expand so it makes more money and suddenly instead of shopping at the local store you suddenly find you're shopping at Walmart's competitor)."

i think that THAT is HOW you change the economic system. we have to "go back" and incorporate those things that we learned and used from our roots. have our own goods and be able to trade again. in shopping at the local store or farmers market or whatever, once it grows, then you move on to the next local store... you don't keep mindlessly putting money into the big guy, because that's the same problem that got us to this horrible problem in the first place. distribute the wealth. don't get stuck in the habit of doing the same things over and over. that's what it's all about.
 

itsscience

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IJC: "without capitalism, the strive for this high grade technology (whether good or bad) would not exist. I would not be able to communicate with all of you on a daily basis without the accelerating force of capitalism."

I agree entirely which is one of the reasons why I made the point that the only way to beat the system is to become self sustainable (grow your own food/live off the land) - with that comes a hell of a lot of sacrifice (electricity probably the biggest).

Allusion: "in shopping at the local store or farmers market or whatever, once it grows, then you move on to the next local store... you don't keep mindlessly putting money into the big guy, because that's the same problem that got us to this horrible problem in the first place. distribute the wealth. don't get stuck in the habit of doing the same things over and over. that's what it's all about."

In a perfect world you would be right and things would change because that is the way to do it. Unfortunately I'm a lot more pessimistic about human nature. I try and support local businesses when I can but sometimes I'm too lazy to go that little bit further past a big chain store to a little local store. Sometimes the big chain store's prices are lower and I opt to save a little by shopping there than the little local shop. So even with the right intentions I'm not 100% true to the cause. I believe there are more people in this world who think differently to us on this topic (either because they don't care, haven't thought about it, lacking in intelligence or can't afford it) than those who would try and make change by shopping local. In short, you are right, the only way to change the system is with people power (everyone effecting change by "voting" with their shopping power) unfortunately the masses are docile on their opiates of technology and convenience coupled with the yokes of work and materialism.

Edit: It is important to bear in mind also that there are significant synergies/economies that can be achieved by a large multi national company that result in a cheaper product that smaller/local business can achieve - not always but often. This means that there will be groups of people who'd love to support a local business but can't because it's cheaper at the big guy - not always but often.
 

EndlessEntity

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i think your only partly right ijc
when you say capitalism is the driving force behind technology.
capitalism provides the incentive, but it would be silly to me to think we couldnt improve on a system that NEEDS much improvement.
capitalism creates a fundamental duality for it to work. every man has to be for himself.
me. i dont really care about money. my dad is rich as shit. but i would HATE to be rich
to look myself in the mirror every day knowing i took all that money and left the others out in the rain.
 

IJesusChrist

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Capitalism is what spurred our technology, I would say if we lived in a system where society and humanitarianism were always at the forefront of thought, and that the well being of people reigned over all - we would be somewhere in the 1930's -1940's of technology.

Nobody would have ever said "Fuck, I really want to watch avatar 3D at home."

BUT! Who's to say whats better? We can never know :p
 

itsscience

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it seems the realists have hijacked this thread from the conspiracy theorists.
 

EndlessEntity

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"they" are the "realists". "they" are the "conspiracy theorists"

cant someone be Realistic and beleive conspiracy POSSIBLE?
people are greedy. they will conspire. FOR REALS
 

itsscience

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True EE, the fault lies in the inaccuracy of my choice of words.

This discussion has evolved into a highly complex exploration of capitalism and society.
 
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