A little bit of philosophy just before I go to Barcelona.

[silv]

I'm excited to see the results when I come back from Barcelona!

 

[Soulcatcher]

hmm, this one can't be answered right..

 

[Brewmaster]

42.

I always vote for 42.

 

[Tetris]

Hay, another hitchhiker!

 

[phalaris]

Kurt Godel solved this one in 1931, it is an example of the barbers paradox.

(actually, there is a whole class of self referencing paradoxes)

His work has many implications, philosofical ones too.

I like to interpret it as:

'any systems, man made or natural, has to have paradoxes in order to exist. The thing is, you won't able to find those paradoxes. But the moment you do, the system will collapse into notingness'

He had to invent a whole new part of mathematics to create the proof for his incompleteness theorems, including Godel Numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Gödel

He is one cool guy !

 

[Soulcatcher]

Is this about the power of suggestion or something 3-0 for the no-voters so far.. but maybe i spoiled it now..

 

[Gratefully_dead]

hahaha nice paradox man! i love em! another good one is "I always lie."

 

[buffachino]

Paradoxes are like linguistic representations of self perpetuating energy in space and time. Although the discovery of a visually perceptual paradox would in my view destroy the onlooker rather than the system itself, because of the delicate nature of the universe's systems of creation, the cataclysm you proclaim phalaris that would follow the discovery of such anomalies would not occur (in my opinion) because of its immediate and detrimental impact to all things that currently exist and also the inability for the onlooker to comprehend.

Yet I’m getting ahead of myself into a topic that deserves pages of written dialogue. But I’m not going to bother because I’m lazy and id rather leave it to the psychedelics to show me the intricacy of all that is.

And yes, Gödel was a smart man, yet like many (if not all) latter day scientists, their hypothesis are still based in a world of perverted systems of scientific law that somehow falsely govern the research and insight into the expanses of our universe, yet are based solidly of factors that are both questionable and paradoxes in themselves; this only creates a false sense of finite knowledge based on 'experts' opinions that are still bound within a superficial boundary of closed, objective human perception.
This is just my hate trip based on known science and the restrictions to better understanding of our space that they impose via the closed, un-conceptual theories which only seem to further culminate ignorance in less inquisitive and mentally inclined individuals.

Long story short; I don’t think organised science is helping to expand our view of the cosmos any further that has been realised by humans for millennia. The more science attempts to confine the knowledge of the infinite universe into a small and unexciting cube of reality in which they regulate the rules and laws which supposedly govern our lives, the less we will untimely understand and perceive. I’m not saying that the past 200 years of science has yielded nothing for the good of our understanding, I’m just proclaiming the negativity, scepticism and un-creativity in the thought process of many modern scientists and their closed approach to many of the more mystical and spectacular facets of our beautiful projection of reality. There is no lucidity in the thought process and thus only rigid and unequivocal conclusions can be drawn in forever degrading concepts of reality and physical matter. What is real and what is not.

Sorry for that. Peace.

 

[BrainEater]

buffachino!!! totally agree!!!

I'm on a hate trip too mate!!!

As i see this paradox is needed in order for everything to exist.

No paradox - no existence.

Just duality.

Or moreuality, dunno... whatever it would be called

Though i had some weird experiences with paradoxons that collapsed as i saw them.

Errors in the matrix????

greetings


PS: I voted for NO

 

[buffachino]

Yeah, infinite, novel duality, that is constantly doubling over itself.
I see much of the physics in the known or perceived universe as based solely of the rule of 2. That said, can two things be truly the same?

Oop’s; I’m raising more questions than I’m attempting to answer!
Well there are no real answers, just a different facet of the same question, which leads to another, and so on and so forth.

 

[Dantediv86]

i answered yes because the answer is no
if you understand what i mean you are me
and if you aren't my answer is the right one
but this being a paradox
it is the wrong one

or is it?

greetings braineater and hail to you buffachino, who i reprimand for not answering my mails...., for your duality dialogue...as you can see i myself am an admirer of this vision...see my signature....voilà
however do not be afraid to raise more questions, for they are what makes us go on and at the same time hinder...ok enough paradox i learned to not hate science because it is, though mathematically rigid in the thought due to simplisticism (dunno if it exhist in the english vocabulary) it has posed to itself in order to take subjectivity out and allow the discoveries to be objective in order for every single human being to experience them in the same way.
consider this science has exhisted in every "advanced" (more properly, non medieval) culture (the chinese, Indian and '800 europe) and in every single one of them was born to find the divine spark, or any divine derivate in the universe, and it ended up nowadays indipendent from any official religious organization and is becoming a religion itself. but for an agnostic person such as i am it is an invaluable tool to uncover hoaxes. and yes it has become a religion on its own but that is because human beings are religious animals and therefore this science we have is biased by these religious persons and therefore this we are whitnessing is a parody of science. and i don't have the time to finish and or explain what i mean cause i have to leave now
cheerio!

 

[BrainEater]

Dante i totally understand what you mean!!! But the problem in it i think is not the science itself, but the messed up minds, that are responsible for science today.... Many of them are very open and at the same time restricted in their thinking, though of course not everyone. Probably many of them are too "stuck" in their ways of thinking. I don't blame them, because it's hard to remain really open-minded while accomplishing great tasks with your mind and remain "down-to-earth" or "human".

I observed the following: Science is for some people, maybe especially scientists a religion!!!!!!! Which is insane!!!! As we maybe all know what religions are!!!! Bullshit!!!! 8) Their god is their mind, their complex way of thinking. Too sad....Though some scientists are or were cool guys for sure. Take Einstein.... 8)

buffachino Yeah duality seems to have a special place in nature!!!! Watch at least the "material" world as people perceive it and as it is "commonly" seen. Well bad explained, but at least take this: in the nature of humans or most living beings on earth duality seems to be important.

Man - Woman (male - female for animals) or maybe Body - Mind being some examples. Then electricity: Positive - negative. Polarity: North - South.
Ahhh!!! Almost forgot!!! Love - Hate!!! Anger - Peace!!!! etc.!!!

Well in fact the duality is part of the illusion i think, but it makes it a lot easier for human minds to understand and it contains truth itself fore sure, too!

PS: Dante: The quality of some paradoxons like this are for me, that both answers are right and wrong at the same time. so you're right!!! and....you're wrong!!!

And which mails you mean?? Haven't receivded one from you! or if you sent it to my mail address i probably deleted it, because i get shitloads of spam mails!!

Greetings!!!

 

[Dantediv86]

HAHa not you Brain... I was referring to buffacchino lol he is the one supposed to send me mail...
anyway we really are messing around here on this post i kinda pity the poster of the Topic he'll have to catch up quite a bit when he comes back

 

[buffachino]

I don’t hate science Dante, I hate the absolution and false degree's of viable 'evidence' that is used to strengthen scientific arguments and the level of ignorance they show to supposedly impossible or crazy concepts which as has been demonstrated in sciences history, always end up to be modern ‘fact’ (think Einstein and Steven hawking; neither were recognised as anything but crazy by their colleges).
All science and experience in general is subjective to the point in time and space and the matter which is projected within this space, thus, no matter how objective the systems of science become in an attempt to regulate reactions in a general way; this simply cannot happen, no two actions or reactions are precisely the same. thus duality and paradox. If science is based on a system of rules and laws that are all fundamentally flawed and thus wrong in their ‘conclusions’, so it is essentially impossible for any scientist to come to a state of complete understanding of a subject; they may have discovered aspects about the subject that changes the equation, but that equation will never be truly solved; because it cant be whilst the universe stays intact; your just pinpointing a minute spot on an ever expanding line.
This is what duality really is; just two points on the same line, and to complicate the energy within the line, it must fold over itself at any two points to become a more complex line, yet still a line.

This is a very basic representation of this concept, both because I’m feeling lazy today and because I think the realisation of the same knowledge can be achieved without humanitarian guidance and discovered or experienced within the realms of hyperspace itself.

Peace.

 

[BrainEater]

Thanks for that buffachino!! You blew my mind again

The crazy thing about duality is that it doesn't have to be a line, it can have any form with 2 opposite points on it what makes it amazingly complex.

This is a very basic representation of this concept, both because I'm feeling lazy today and because I think the realisation of the same knowledge can be achieved without humanitarian guidance and discovered or experienced within the realms of hyperspace itself.

totally agree!!!!!

 

[Meduzz]

i prefer another interpretation of duality: the one with the positive vs negative thing, that everything has its oposite,...
that the sum of everything is zero...
think of matter and anti-matter

 

[phalaris]

'Scientist are humans too' should be a bumber sticker !

When we speak of 'science', what we really should be speaking about is not science as a noun, but the 'scientific method' as a way of looking and making sense of the world. Scientific 'laws' are not laws at all, these are merely models that seems to fit 'reality' quite well for the moment. Laws are a human invention. No-one wil fine you for not abiding to the law of gravity. On the contrary, if you succees, you will most likely get a nobel prize.

And because scientist are humans, some will be more creative than others. No real surprise if you ask me. It is the few that are really bright and innovating like Richard Feynmann and Kurt Godel that count.

Those guys are from a few generations ago, but at this very moment exciting things are happening too. For example 'science' is philosophing about the possibility that time itself does not exist at all. Many psychonauts may already consider 'time' to be a rather silly concept, but try explaning that to your neighour . The methods these people are using and inventing are just another way of making sense of the world.
Please keep in mind that very few scientific articles get puplished in the media and the few that do, are almost always summaries of summaries designed to be understandable to the 'general public' (whatever that is). So any opinions formed about 'science' are bound to be biased. To counter this, articles on website like http://www.sciencedirect.com should be free of charge. There is a wealth of fun stuff to be found on this website.

 

[BrainEater]

If you ask me making laws or rules and the want to clinging to them or the clinging to them in general is the fucked up thing.

totally agree phalaris!!!

 

[buffachino]

I’m overgeneralizing; if that helps explain I don’t hate science and or scientists, I just dislike the things they choose or get funding to look at and how and why they look at them.
(This is based, for the most part, on the government or controlling body’s decisions on what’s worth looking at. Real scientists have little power)

Mainstream, organised science is perhaps years or decades behind philosophical, conceptual and entheogenic knowledge (or should I say subjective, yet collective wisdom?) of the universes function and the basis of reality itself.

Its 'because' of the complex and unnecessary procedures and sets of laws and rules imposed to get consistent results that science is both slowing and perverting their results and techniques to the point where further science is pointless. It’s just realising the same theories, or facets of them, over and over to get some superficial conclusion which helps them sleep at night. Well while there off theorising about how things could work in the same way on any scale (merging theory of relativity with electro magnetism for instance, there the same thing, just a different scale in comparison.) I’m off moving through 8 dimensions and talking to the 'spirit' or a thousand oxygen molecules as they exchange energy with my body.

I don’t have a concrete slab detailing how this was to work or how I was able to experience these things, but I did, and the explanation is within the action itself and the experienced wisdom that can aid others in their journey.
Sure theory and absolution are just other methods of objectively understanding tangible reality towards critical scientific eyes, but the things being researched are farcical and many of the basis that have been created by science for further science are flawed in their theory (at least to my eyes) and so cannot be truly advanced upon without further insight into the fundamentals and a revision of the overtly complex; not the pointless reactions on earth within a solar day, or year; these timeframes are to some extent meaningless; a wink in the entirety of ‘material’ time.

As Phalaris said, only now are they considering the pointlessness of a system of recorded time, for the only use time serves is to aid your ego in putting reference to where your physical body is in relation to it and the objective sought by the primitive human mind. A protective mechanism to hide you from the truth of energy, space and infinite time; for these concepts are so utterly endless and alien compared to what our bodies, instinctive and primordial consciousness have come to require whilst on earth, that they are filtered out and distorted into a more simplistic and animal impulses for the basic need of both prolonging the life of the physical tool that is our bodies and ensuring a second generation of your species for further exploration into the unknown. We haven’t reached that cosmic coming of age yet where we will be able to throw off all this superficiality and meaningless matter and just revel in the universes infinity and beauty.

This is the true challenge science faces, the battle against itself. There will come a time where this realisation of the enormity yet simplicity of the concepts wreathed within our experience of life will make themselves blatantly clear to organised scientific exploration and thus usher in a new era of true exploration into the great and vast unknown.

Peace.