Who should use entheogens? - Leary, Huxley and Kesey

[maxfreakout]

it is interesting to compare the views of Tim Leary, Aldous Huxley and Ken Kesey regarding the issue of who should be using entheogens in the society

Huxley - ultra-elitest view, only creative and social-elites should use entheogens such as poets, writers, scientists, artists etc.

Leary - semi-elitest view, entheogens should be used as a serious therapeutic, spiritual and educational tool

Kesey - ultra-egalitarian view, everyone should use the entheogens as spiritual and recreational tools

It's hard to decide which of these views is the 'correct' or 'best' one for the functioning of a society but it is a crucial issue, I think that what people get out of entheogens is typically a direct reflection of their level of intelligence, so i think i lean towards Leary's academic-oriented view, what do people here think?

 

[Brugmansia]

Who? Any won who perceives 6 primates on its left eye, and 6 primates on its right eye, and then notices underneath in the middle there's the concealed control button to initiate the 13th primate in one's self. I think I'll toast with a British goat; Aldous Huxley.

But 6 billion shamans on this earth wouldn't be quite daft either. :mrgreen:

 

[Teonanacapilli]

I'm with Kesey, but only in the shamanic context. The dangers associated with psychedelic use are only seen in the materially developed world because we've taken the experience totally out of context. There is no guide, no ritual safety net and as we've seen in the 60s, a great many people are not ready for unsupervised, inexperienced solo psychedelic use. I am totally against this, venturing into the other worlds without an experienced guide is dangerous and your interpretation of the trip is not nearly as complete as that of an accomplished shaman.

We NEED more shamans in the modern world, especially in a time of such disconnect with the universe- a guided psychedelic trip can give people a healing, grounding experience reminding them of who, what, when, where (and perhaps how and why) we really are.

Heal yourself, make yourself whole- then help others do this. That is part of the spiritual work, the sadhana. We can see this through history with all realized beings, shamans across the ages (Jesus, the Buddha, Lao Tzu, Amazonian vegetalistas, lamas of tibet, gurus, shamanic healers the world over) have always aided their fellow sentient beings in the pursuit of peace and happiness with their gained powers and insights.

 

[Brugmansia]

It's much more a matter of how we should use them. Individually in our attic I'd say.

 

[darkwolfunseen]

I don't know, I'm a Huxley fan, maybe because his description makes me appreciate it more.

 

[maxfreakout]

I don't know, I'm a Huxley fan, maybe because his description makes me appreciate it more.

i agree he had a marvelous way with words in describing these experiences (same with T. Mckenna), but he was also an incredible snob when it came to other people's use of entheogens

i heard that one time someone said to him at a talk that they had taken mescaline themselves and hadnt experienced anything like what Huxley describes, and Huxley replied something like that has more to do with the person's lack of intelligence and nothing to do with mescaline

But i think there is definitely some truth to that, what a person gets out of using entheogens is largely a function of their intelligence, stupid people dont get the full impact of what entheogens do for intelligent people

 

[Teonanacapilli]

Be careful not to confuse "intelligent" with "educated" or "learned".

 

[maxfreakout]

Be careful not to confuse "intelligent" with "educated" or "learned".

yes i just mean 'intelligent', ie people with well-functioning brains

 

[itsscience]

Another way of looking at it is:

Who has the right to tell another they should or shouldn't use entheogens?

 

[Teonanacapilli]

Another way of looking at it is:

Who has the right to tell another they should or shouldn't use entheogens?

That's a good point of view. No one can tell an individual what they can and can't do with their own body, it's a fundamental human right and it's why we're still in the dark ages.

 

[darkwolfunseen]

maxfreakout: I completely agree that Huxley as a person was way too elitist for most. It's just that his words were meaningful, even if his message was a bit hypocritical (he was born into an intellectual family, he didn't earn that on his own).

Teonanacapilli: Well, as much as I wish it was a fundamental human right, I still think entheogens are a dangerous thing in the wrong hands. The problem is that when people who are either completely psychologically wrong for the substance, don't educate themselves of what is happening to them, or those who just simply abuse get involved. In these instances, it is no longer a right, it was a privilege, that now we must all not have legal access to, because some cannot be trusted to control themselves/act safely. It's an unfortunate truth that man can only be as free as the most irresponsible people in society will safely allow.

 

[Toxicomethorphane]

Kesey. One world consciousness, no control of any kind.

 

[dirk.bruere]

I'm with Kesey, but with the caveat that everyone who does so should be over 30.
First, because taking these drugs too young screws you up to a greater or lesser extent.
Second, because that is the age when people start to make their mark in the world, and it would be good to do with eyes a little bit more open.