What would you tell your kids?

[Lucien]

Thanks for the report Lucien. She sounds like a lucky girl. The only thing that concerns me though is the fact that the mother seemed to find it useful to trip in the presence of her daughter when she was younger. That is something I would never do.

By myself I agree I would never do anything around children period. If there is a caretaker around it's a little more difficult to say, but I'd still rather not. Also when it comes to age I believe around 14 I would have no problem introducing my children to psychedelic literature, but I would wait until 18 before being on anything in front of them or letting them try anything. I believe the maze that is the mind should to be fully developed before being embarked upon. I would always be open about my past experiences, I would not push psychedelics on to my children, just be open and honest about them. - lucien

 

[IJesusChrist]

I'd tell em I don't want them to do them.

 

[UniversalConsciousness]

It all depends of course. It's always best to be straight with your kids no matter what.....and by that I mean being honest. If they can't be trusted to keep secrets, which I imagine it would be difficult with some children, then yeah you wouldn't tell them just like you wouldn't talk about stuff like this with square bush lovers so to speak who are more likely to snitch.

We need to define what "kids" really means as well. Are we referring to any offspring? Or a specific age group? Obviously there's a huge difference between a 16 year old smoking pot and a 5 year old. The 16 year old isn't going to be anymore negative to pot than most other young adults. Alcohol is much worse because it has been proven to damage the brain. THC is neuroprotective, so actual brain damage in younger folk needs to be proven before having the anxiety of youth pot use. It was after all the youth that started using pot to begin with.

It all depends on the person too......I have known 14 year olds who do smoke pot and do quite well in school. I'm not encouraging any substance use before they are ready, but for example caffeine is so widley used, abused, and ignored......teen violence can be linked to excessive irriatation for caffeine withdrawl and yet you don't ever here much against 10 year olds using coffee, which is far worse health-wise than cannabis (though coffee does have some medical value).

Just pointing that out. ;)

 

[Getafix]

I have known 14 year olds who do smoke pot and do quite well in school

That's quite possible. But there's reason for concern that THC regularly ingested at an early age, approximately before the age of 15, may negatively affect someone's problem-solving abilities later on in life. See BBC's "Horizon: Cannabis -The Evil Weed".

 

[Mara]

Again, this is something you would explain to your children way in advance: "Just like someone dreaming may make funny sounds or move restlessly with eyes closed, so people will act a little unusual when tripping. But, and this is an important but, they will not behave inappropriately, like a drunk mummy or daddy would do.

I do not fully agree with this. I believe we can act just as inappropriate while high on psychedelics as we can be on alcohol. When I think about my past psychedelic experiences I even recall some as inappriopriate (not that I mind ofcourse, but in the presence of kids it's something else). Suppressing these acts was not possible. I also think we as adults can laugh about it, but if I would see my mother in this state when I was younger, I would definately not like it. I think we should always be able to offer them safe and sober arms to comfort them when they are around.

Also when it comes to age I believe around 14 I would have no problem introducing my children to psychedelic literature,

Yes I agree 14 seems like a right age. Maybe I would wait until they're 16 though... What kind of literature would you give them? Would you also give them the usual "drugs are bad, mkay?" books?

 

[UniversalConsciousness]

I have known 14 year olds who do smoke pot and do quite well in school

That's quite possible. But there's reason for concern that THC regularly ingested at an early age, approximately before the age of 15, may negatively affect someone's problem-solving abilities later on in life. See BBC's "Horizon: Cannabis -The Evil Weed".

But what is the scientific studies that have been done in this area? The documentary seems to advocate one, more negative view towards pot, hence its clear title.....either way actual evidence should be produced that shows specific damage towards folks younger than 15 that is different than what may be found in older users, no matter how safe we want to be.

 

[Getafix]

Have you seen the documentary? You can download it. I was referring to one particular experiment discussed towards the end of that documentary.

We've been discussing the program here.

 

[Lucien]

What kind of literature would you give them? Would you also give them the usual "drugs are bad, mkay?" books?

The Doors of Perception, DMT: The Spirit Molecule, The Psychedelic Experience (Tibetan book of the dead) by Timothy leary, Peopled Darkness: Perceptual Transformation through Salvia Divinorum. Honestly I would have to judge the book on the readability of a 14 year old. I would try to give my children unbiased information, on the effects of different substances on the body. And again besides the "don't smoke crack" talk I would only persue his/her education in psychedelics if he/she showed interest in them. - Lucien

 

[Getafix]

DMT: The Spirit Molecule

Actually, a very bad book. Here's why.

The Psychedelic Experience (Tibetan book of the dead) by Timothy leary

Doesn't contain much practical information, unless you want to really train sitters to recite those phrases in the end of the book.

 

[Brugmansia]

Literature and entheogens don't really mix. Know your approach, know your journey, and know your story.

 

[st.bot.32]

+1, why take someone else's trip

 

[Lucien]

Actually, a very bad book. Here's why.

Thanks for the input. I read your thread and also have downloaded the PDF. I am currently reading the book and it helped resolve some misconceptions I was having with it. As for the Psychedelic Experience book it was a book my mother gave me to read and it has helped my understanding a bit on the importance of set and setting when I had just started my psychedelic ventures. As for Brugmansia and st.bot.32's comments I agree, but knowing what I do now I was glad I had at least a small Idea what I was getting myself into before I tried mushrooms for my first time.
- Lucien

 

[st.bot.32]

Understandable... I read it after I had done acid a few times and had "ego death" and it gave me a new perspective on what had happened. I think though that while it's interesting to read other people's perspectives on the psychedelic experience in the end it's best to find what works for you. A lot of psychedelic literature tends to promote personal belief systems a bit too much, methinks

There are definitely a few favorites of mine, all classics though I guess.. like "doors of perception" and "my problem child". actually come to think of it the hofmann book i would probably recommend to anyone interested in psychedelics.. there's a lot of historical stuff and different+interesting perspectives in that book that are just good to be aware of

 

[Lucien]

That's why I have always learned what I could from reading, but tended to regard everything with an innate sense of skepticism.

A lot of psychedelic literature tends to promote personal belief systems a bit too much, methinks

That is true and one thing I have been a little annoyed by in some books is the sense of pushing there beliefs on you.

There are definitely a few favorites of mine, all classics though I guess.. like "doors of perception" and "my problem child".

I forgot My problem child, I have been wanting to read that book but haven't been able to get it yet and cannot find a PDF of it. - Lucien

 

[UniversalConsciousness]

Have you seen the documentary? You can download it. I was referring to one particular experiment discussed towards the end of that documentary.

We've been discussing the program here.

Yeah that documentary, I saw that on youtube. It tries very difficult to portray a more negative view of cannabis while trying to be neutral, but it fails pretty hard in a couple areas. Still....despite this.....some of the tests done in the documentary were interesting. The rat experiment where the rats under 15 human years did poorly in trying to find the platform....it is truly an interesting study and shows that we shouldn't take so much chances with younger folk under 15 just in case, but the study is far from conclusive. Rat adolescents are a lot different than human adolescents.....I think when it really comes down to it....it depends on the maturity if the said 13 or 14 year old....obviously more people in this group may not be able to adapt. But some may, which is important to point out. Whether thc significantly impacts users under 15 still needs to be more definitely proven in humans though.

Of course this just refers to use......education should always be provided when requested regardless of age.

 

[st.bot.32]

I wish I could find it but wasn't there a study recently that tracked teens that used cannabis and teens that used alcohol, and found that alcohol is actually more damaging to the teenage brain than cannabis? Of course, best for the underage to wait till they are out of their teens for either substance..

@Lucien

Here's a link to the book...

http://www.cyjack.com/cognition/lsdmyproblemchild.pdf

 

[UniversalConsciousness]

I wish I could find it but wasn't there a study recently that tracked teens that used cannabis and teens that used alcohol, and found that alcohol is actually more damaging to the teenage brain than cannabis? Of course, best for the underage to wait till they are out of their teens for either substance..

@Lucien

Here's a link to the book...

http://www.cyjack.com/cognition/lsdmyproblemchild.pdf

Well obviously cannabis will be far less damaging, if at all, to a younger teenager's brain than alcohol, simply for the reason that alcohol has been found to be neuro-toxic to an individual regardless of age, where is cannabis has been found to not be neurotoxic at all.

Now what I'm wondering is whether there has been studies done to show that cannabis is neuro-toxic to say individuals under 15 years while the same isn't true for older users obviously. But finding such a study is problematic, not only because there is no neuro-toxicity found in users, but also because thc, the main active ingredient in cannabis, has been proven to be neuroprotective....meaning it has some good health benefits for the brain!

So it really comes down to many many factors....yes we can make the safe decision that it's best to stay away from any type of "drug" if the individual is under 15. At the same time actual said harm needs to be more definitely proven before making the conclusion that there is real harm.

Now lots of folks are bringing up alcohol when talking about cannabis, but this is an illogical comparison in many ways, alcohol is a hard drug more on par with cocaine than it is with cannabis. We should instead talk about cannabis in relation to a widely accepted drug: "caffeine". Now cannabis maybe more "mind-altering" than caffeine, but there is no question that caffeine is definitely mind altering in full dosages and much more physically damaging to the body than cannabis. And yet if a 10 year old decides to drink a cup of coffee, many parents would be ok with this (though not all won't). It really shows a huge double-standard and cultural-standard that needs to be seriously question before absolutely deciding on it. If your not ok with cannabis, then you should definitely not be ok with caffeine use, this includes coffee or more than a cup of soda if they are very small especially.

 

[Lucien]

@Lucien

Here's a link to the book...

http://www.cyjack.com/cognition/lsdmyproblemchild.pdf

Thank you!!! I'm going to start reading it now. - Lucien

 

[Space-is-the-Place]

Here's a link to the book...
http://www.cyjack.com/cognition/lsdmyproblemchild.pdf

Thanks a bunch St.! :thumbsup:8)

 

[Getafix]

I agree with you UniversalConsciousness. Occasional use of cannabis by younger children will not likely do them any harm (though there's always the risk of being harmed by the 'authorities'). And there may even be certain benefits, both physically and mentally.