Want to try ayahuasca

[bobmarleyfan]

What would be the best combo and dose for a first timer?

I want a mild trip at least to start with but nothing too intense...

So what do you guys recommend for ingredients and how much of each?

Thanks.

 

[DevXavier]

3 grams of Peganum Harmala and 10 grams of mimosa hostilis.

Be sure to get some half-decent mimosa though.

 

[HeartCore]

3 grams of Peganum Harmala and 10 grams of mimosa hostilis.

Be sure to get some half-decent mimosa though.

Yes and make sure you follow the recipe: make thea out of the rue, make tea out of the mimosa. Drink the rue, wait 15-20 minutes, drink the mimosa. Try to drink ALL the mimosa, dont make the mistake of thinking you will be able to drink more once it starts working since very few are able to (not me anyway )

 

[Guest]

I want a mild trip at least to start with but nothing too intense...

My opinion would be to go with another psychedelic than Ayahuasca and come back to it when more "experienced", but of course it's just my 2 cents !

 

[HeartCore]

I want a mild trip at least to start with but nothing too intense...

My opinion would be to go with another psychedelic than Ayahuasca and come back to it when more "experienced", but of course it's just my 2 cents !

But the dosage listed here, 3 grams of rue with 10 grams of mimosa, are not intense at all. At least, thats my experience. Depending on the quality of your bark, the ingested DMT will range from 50-180 mg. (180 is you have best quality bark). When I did it this way, I had a mild tho visual trip, comparable to shrooms but with a very specific character (goddess of the rain forest ). It was never overintense or too much to handle. At various times, I wanted to take more but the rue didnt allow me (as in making me throw up when I tried to drink more).

 

[bobmarleyfan]

Could somebdoy point me in the direction of a reputable source for mimosa in the USA?

Thanks.

 

[Brewmaster]

Not to get all nit-picky but rue +mimosa does not make ayahuasca. It's a much cheaper way to experience oral dmt but it is very different from using caapi vine which (for me) is the ingredient that gives any meaning to the trip.

Don't get me wrong, Jurema (mosa,rue) can be one hell of an experience, but I would almost equate it to the way I feel about salvia. You will have some wild ass visions, puke your guts out and be spun for a good couple hours but you won't feel the incredibly positive vibe and lasting impression that only aya can give. I've used the mimosa rue combo 4 times with the same effect; when it's over, it's over. A 2-3 day ayahuasca session leaves me feeling brand new for at least a month afterwards.

but that's me

to answer your question: if you have a paypal account, there's plenty of places on ebay to get mimosa and rue. But I think a few people will agree with me that (even tho they're out of Holland) Maya Ethnobotanicals has some quality product. They're my new source for caapi anyways.

What part of the country you at, Bob?

 

[HeartCore]

You will have some wild ass visions, puke your guts out and be spun for a good couple hours but you won't feel the incredibly positive vibe and lasting impression that only aya can give.

So where did the incredible positive vibe and lasting impression come from that I got from rue/mimosa?

 

[ProStoner]

You will have some wild ass visions, puke your guts out and be spun for a good couple hours but you won't feel the incredibly positive vibe and lasting impression that only aya can give.

So where did the incredible positive vibe and lasting impression come from that I got from rue/mimosa?

yourself

oh and mayba ethnobotanicals is a good one indeed

 

[Brewmaster]

Like I said, that's only my experience. I shouldn't have said "YOU won't get the blah blah blah". I'm sure some will

But in defense, I think anyone who has tried both aya and jurema can tell the difference. Most people say that aya feels more knowledgeable/ older and wiser, like there is a familiar force guiding your experience. Using rue (again, just me) is more like an acid trip as far as the visuals go; geometric swirling open eye visuals. When using a lot of caapi vine, it produces much more realistic hallucinations that affect all of your senses; it can create feelings of movement, sensations of actually turning into, or becoming a different life form. The visions may become very realistic landscapes, individuals or animals that one can interact with, not just pretty, melting patterns.

DMT in ANY form has always been a pleasant experience in my book, but when it comes to oral dmt+maoi; there's no substitute for the power of the caapi vine.

 

[HeartCore]

I hear you Brew. Its just that what you decribe as characteristics of aya, I have experienced with jurema. I should order some caapi

like there is a familiar force guiding your experience

It was exactly that, nothing like acid. To me it was like, omg, its true everything they say about aya. I was visited by the goddess, she showed me many things. It really was an entheogenic experience.

Interesting to note may be that that the time, I was not aware of differences between aya and jurema and the notion that there is a difference between them.

I dont know, they say expectations play a large role when you are tripping, for me jurema is the real thing because it felt like that for me and to be honest, I believe that to be true. Anyway, I'm not too stubborn to try it out so in your opinion Brew, would caapi/chaliponga be the real thing? Cause in that case I only have to get the caapi

 

[Brewmaster]

You're right, expectations and preconceived notions can deffinitely play a big role in any trip.

But yes, caapi and challiponga is a good way to go. Your peeps over at Maya sometimes have the "Super Excellent" red caapi vine in addition to the regular, plain old "Excellent" I bought it once and was quite pleased but it wasn't in the last time I tried to order.

One thing I've noticed, that I really don't like about rue, is the fact that the sickly feeling stays with me even after the purge. This is probably my biggest beaf with it. With caapi, after the purge, I feel fucking fantastic; light as a feather. I can also have a booster dose an hour or so later. But as you mentioned earlier, trying to drink a second cup of mimosa after rue, can be quite difficult. It's like the shit stays with you and doesn't want anything coming back INTO your stomach.

Just wondering....have you ever drank tea from cabrerana? Tastes a lot better than mimosa IMO.

 

[HeartCore]

But I experienced the purge as they call it. Very sick, nauseous, shortly, then throwing up violently, then energetic, bliss, it really began. But yes I was discussing with a friend yesterday that with regular aya, people often take more while into the trip, something that is impossible with rue in my experience.

I read something interesting about the purge, have the link @ work so I'll post that later. The point was that it had this argument explaining how the purge that has taken on mythical proportions in the ayahuasca ritual, can be completely avoided. This was stated by someone with many years of experience making traditional ayahuasca. It had something to do with the long boiling and a substance emerging from that process that is comparable with soap. Supposedly that is what makes you sick. The guy claims that when he discovered that, he changed the way he brews ayahuasca and no one gets sick from it anymore. His conclusion: the purge is a coverup story for someone who isnt competent enough to cook up a decent brew

Help me remember to post the link tomorrow please, I found it very interesting

As for rue, I am going to try an extraction on the rue I have here. Taking extracted rue in combination with either mimosa tea or extracted DMT, has none of the negative sideeffects of rue when taken the usual way. If all works out, I think I will make a journey on christmas night.

I never tasted Carbrerana but I found drinking Mimosa tea a challenge

 

[bobmarleyfan]

Hey Im from the midwest.

Sounds from Brew's description that aya is more what im looking for in the trip.

It also sounds as if I should buy my ingredients off of maya-ethnos...no?

 

[Brewmaster]

East coast here. Yeah, Maya's been treating me pretty good...when they have what I need.

As far as the purge goes, I've heard that tannins can be released when boiling so it's best to only simmer the ingredients. This made sense to me being a home-beer brewer. When adding adjunct grains to change the consistency of the beer, or to change the color; it's important to only simmer below 215 degrees or tannins will be released, ruining the beer. This is how I make my aya now; bring the water to a boil and reduce to simmer before throwing in all your leaves and vines.

It doesn't help. I for one don't mind the purge. For me it only lasts a minute at the most, usually only like 20 seconds. It doesn't feel like a sick, drunk, nauseaus sensation; it's more of a quick stomach spasm or convulsion. I have a couple friends that have done this with me on more than one occasion and they used to try and suppress puking by taking dramamine, or pepto bismul or some other agent to settle the stomach; always without luck. My opinion is that it's part of the experience, and that it adds to the positive feeling after it's over with. With all the times I've puked from being shit-faced drunk, it's really nothing.

 

[bobmarleyfan]

Should I use chaliponga or chacruna?

How much b caapi and (chali/chac) should i use?

Also which kind of caapi should i get? There seems to be a lot of different kinds

 

[Brewmaster]

I've had the best times with red vine. Either one, chacruna or challiponga, will be good. The latter contains 5-MeO-DMT in addition to DMT but it's unlikely you'd notice a difference. Challiponga is reputed to be quite a bit stronger (and Amoak will say the same) but I've always used at least 30g of either one. Maybe I'm not doing something right, but I've used it many times; you may, perhaps want to start with less.

Allow me to refer you to the conversation a couple weeks ago. Good stuff. There's a bit of discussion (argument) in there about dosage.

http://www.psychonaut.com/index.php?opt ... b9&lang=nl

As I said in that thread, my best advice is to make it a 2 day affair if not longer.

 

[bobmarleyfan]

Update (kind of):

I decided that I will be trying this over the summer this year. Me and some good friends are going on a road trip and as of now I plan on doing this at Yellowstone at a campsite.
Does this sound like a decent setting or not?

And what time do you guys think would be best to do it at? Im thinking drink it around 4-5pm...

I also decided to go with a 50/50g mix of B Caapi and P Viridis.


Another question I have is about the brewing process. Anyone have a good link or can tell me how to do it the right way?

I figured I should break the ingredients up, boil them for a few hours and repeat a few times?
Also should I make the two together or boil each thing seperately?

This also presents me with the problem of where I will make it...Im thinking I should make it before I leave and just keep it in a cool place until I decide to use it (which will be about 4-7 days after I leave) because it might be hard to make it at a campsite (if thats where I do it).

Anyways any advice or suggestions would be very nice.

 

[Brewmaster]

Honestly, I couldn't think of a better spot on god's green earth to trip than Yellowstone (except maybe the desert). I go on about how much I love Virginia but the national parks out west are just so damn beautiful. Before we got hitched, the wife and I spent 6 weeks living in Yosemite, just hiking around the back country, eating whatever we could find in the woods, catching fish out of the river for dinner every night and only stumbling into a general store once a week for necessities. That was the best time of my life.

* sorry about your post, I'm on a rant. See Heartcore's thread for brewing directions. And yes, you should brew it before you leave; you never know what the conditions are going to be when you get there. It might be raining or it might be extremely dry, in which case they frequently ban open fires. As far as time of day, I only do it at night because it's more condusive to having visions; So we usually start chugging as the sun's going down. My only advice would be not to go too far off the beaten trail when you're going to be doing this, you don't want to have to fend off any bears, coyotes or god forbid wolverines while your tripping.

For you folks that have never been or never heard of it, check out some of these pics (if I was at home, I'd try posting my own). This is what makes this country so fucking great, not because we've dubbed ourselves as a world "super power" or that it used to be the "land of opportunity" but because it's so incredibly beautiful.

http://www.nps.gov/archive/yell/slidefile/index.htm

not that I'm putting down anyone else's home; I've been to Dutch country and I'll be returning because I love it there. It's just that places like these are the one thing that makes me proud to live in America.

* end rant. Please return to original topic.

 

[GOD]

50 grams of Banisteropsis caapi and / or 50 grams of Psychotria viridis is to much . The recomended dose of B.caapi is 13 - 14 grams with 25 - 30 grams of Psychotria virids or 3 - 4 grams of P.harmala . Dry it , powder it as fine as you can and cook it up with fresh water 3 or 4 times . There is no need to use any added acids . Filter it through an old t shirt or similar , boil it down to about 50 - 100 ml. per dose and drink it . You dont realy have to cook the P.harmala seeds you can just eat / take them whole . 20 minutes before is good . The MOAIs open an effect window , i dont know how lomg it stays open for . = for a second dose you might not need more MOAIs . P.harmala is definatly not dangerous in these doses . The storys of overdoses and halucinations on P.harmala are probably psychological , caused by fear and hearsay . It does not make a big diference if you cook them together , wich is easyer , or not . It is best to use a preasure cooker at home to make it . I have never had any ayahuasca and not wanted , and had , a 2nd and 3rd dose .

The emesis = violent puking a few people get is probably psychological , fear and / or exitement , or poisoning . It is not the tanin , its more likely to be the fat content , wich is a magnet for germs to grow on / in and can go rancid . The south american churches say it usualy hapens because people have not taken the diatry and / or other rules seriously or that its their own psychological crap comming out . They say if your charakter , spirit is clean you dont puke and it does not taste bitter or bad . Its not like puking your guts up on hard drugs such as alcohol or heroin , or travel sickness . Its a freeing , a liberation , enjoy it . Usualy at sessions every one has their own bucket . I have never seen anyone realy throw up , just burp and spit a little . The minimum precaution is not to eat for at least 4 hours before . I am of the opinion that the diferences some people see in the effects of one ayahuasca analog and another are psychological , the same with B.caapi and P.harmala . The dose and the physical and mental set and setting . Most of the effects some people claim to have with these things are placebo , expectation , ignorance or fear . The chemicals are neutral humans are not .

Not wishing to slag anyone off but personaly i go nuts when i am confronted with racists or other scum . I was not sure what was meant earlyer untill someone explained it was suposed to be ment as sarcasm . I did not think that it was funny . Maybe its better to not say things like that as senile old farts like me dont always understand . As was said earlyer , its not about words but about comunication .

LOVE GOD