the worldview thread

[BrainEater]

well not really sure.. lol.. but maybe it could be fun and maybe even interesting!!! i wonder sometimes whether people have worldview perspective mantras... or maybe it could be seen like that in some sense... not really sure how to explain. i noticed i had a very limited worldview for some time and it bothered me greatly... it seems to me one thing is that the perspective we have on things can change more than we may think.
another thing is that i would say i.e. you can't really explain children how to walk, but they have to learn through their own experience.
personally, i can say i definately prefer basically peaceful worldviews.
sometimes the survival mode tunnelvision really gets on my nerves and i want to move to a dream planet where everything works rather totally miraculously and anything is possible or so... lol... i dunno... life can be so strange but also so amazing....


hmm now that i think of it... maybe it would be a better start to simply ask: what do you believe? what can you believe? what do you want to believe? do you even know what you believe?? etc...
i guess this is probably where a lot of hidden potential lies. so i suppose we should ask ourselves questions like that sometimes, in order to be able to use the worldview trick, if that's the right way to say it. know what i mean?? 8)




peace :weed:

 

[Finarfin]

Like brainEater I also would like to move to a dream planet sometimes. I have this fantasy about how i am not of this earth and one day will return to my home the Pleiades and float among the stars living of the cosmic energy. I also have fantasies about being on a paradise island living in my dream house and having a dream job.

Well we can,t always get what we want, maybe we get what we need?

Do i have a believe system? I believe there are many believe systems and reality tunnels. I do not believe that there is one believe system that has the truth or that is superior to other believe systems. (is that a contradiction?)
I do believe in the power of love and the power of imagination. Love is a feeling and not a concept or idea.

When the occupy movement started in my city i checked it out to see what it was. I talked to a lot of people, with different believes. It was so interesting to hear all these story,s and believes that i kept returning and became part of the occupy camp for a while.
I was fascinated by all those different opinions and i discovered that the occupy movement was not at all uniform in there believes.
Sometimes people asked me what i believe and what my ideas where.
To be honest i do not have a answer. When it comes to politics i am a bit on the libertarian or anarchist side. However i see serious problems with some aspects of libertarianism and anarchism. I do believe that people should be free. I am all for freedom, freedom is good. However i am not for lawlessness.
I see serious problems with most philosophies and believes.
Thinking and learning about ideas and philosophy is interesting and it can also make your head spin. It can also be an ego think. Believing in something gives you an identity.
I am Anarchist, I am Muslim, I am Catholic, I am Communist.

I have come to the point where i say i am human and there is no ultimate truth. There are reality tunnels and all these tunnels have there own problems.
The truth lies in being in the here and now. If i want to have peace of mind i have to stop thinking about being and just be.
Being in the here and now and being aware is the opposite of moving trough the swamp of ideas. It is the opposite of fighting in the battle of ideas on the battlefield of philosophy.


It,s interesting how ideas have stages of development. Stage one is the philosopher or prophet that comes up with an idea. Stage to is the politician or the media that misinterpret, misunderstand and makes an abomination of the idea. Stage three are the ground troops, the soldiers that fight and die for that idea on the battlefield of ideology.

I am not against believe or against ideas. I think feeling and thinking. Reality and imagination should be in harmony with each other. When it,s out of harmony horrible things can happen.

 

[BrainEater]

hey!! thanks for the good reply!! i would say it appears that you have at least a relatively healthy worldview. it's great that you seem to be self-critical also... i think a good degree of self-criticism and self-honesty is fundamental in order to not become deluded or so... maybe ask yourself sometimes what you "really feel"???
i think i heard somewhere that the universe provides us with what we need. i guess it's quite a deep thought and it seemed to me that it probably can't really be understood with the rational mind if the rational mind isn't let's say set-up with a good understanding loving kindness. not sure what would be a good way of saying that.
in buddhism it's said "desire creates suffering". in christianity it's said "ask and you shall be given".
well that's only two examples because i don't remember a lot more right now.


anyway... yeah, i agree that love is more a feeling and not a abstract idea or so... for instance i found myself a lot of the time thinking about feeling instead of really feeling. it's good to be able to think but sometimes it's just too much... if you ask me, imagination is really what makes us human and dreaming beings, but we should more or less know when it feels alright and when not and what we can do then and what better not to do or so... regarding belief systems i think it's the feeling that counts... whether the feeling of a belief feels alright to you. or the belief of a feeling?? lol.. it seems to me sometimes stupid beliefs are good and/or bad, sometimes intelligent beliefs are good and/or bad.
or good and evil?? how stuff like that mostly seems a matter of perspective. but yeah i also think that healthy common sense is required, because as you said both anarchy and libertarianism can also have negative sides. often the crucial point is simply that people choose to be nice to each other and work together instead of against each other. it's just more fun when people are nice to each other. of course when they are really nice and not all the fake shit etc etc... i bet you know what i mean. :? ak:

hmm you say the battlefields of philosophy.. i think that's somehow funny... but sometimes it also gets on the nerves a little bit... for example i would say we don't want to become propaganda machines too much, if at all... but in principle probably definately a lot better than real violence or stages of it. but still.... hmmm.... maybe a more or less healthy morality could be to enjoy life without hurting others. not totally sure with all that... basically i simply want real peace for the world.. i also had it that i was thinking way too much about relaxing instead of really relaxing. t's so crazy lol... i found out that really focussing on simply breathing can help then. even though it's something as simple as breathing it can be a whole science by itself.
in addition to that i can say i hope that i can really learn from my mistakes and that would be great. i say i hope because i think it's a bit like i have to believe in god for that, because it seems so complicated. well hmm sometimes i got the impression believing in god can also be like trusting the subsconcious, but i can't explain it very well right now... :x :-o


hmmmm....and then... what if we are cosmic beings already and we simply have forgot??? i guess i have to say i agree that you are human. and that the idea that there is no ultimate truth sometimes can help... but i think i would disagree with the latter point. in my opinion, the ultimate truth seems to be the creator/god. :Oo: :?:




peace :weed:

 

[Finarfin]

Talking about feelings. I somtimes get the feeling that i think to much about it all. It makes my head spin sometimes.
Thinking Meta thinking meta meta thinking. You know what i mean.
When you expose yourself to a lot of information and ideas you may start to think about it (well that,s what i do)
And sometimes all that thinking can become a bit to much. When it becomes like this i like to just let it all go and enjoy the here and now.
Not really meditating but taking a walk and enjoy nature. Nature does not have isms it seems. A bird is just a bird. A tree is a tree. There are no communist trees or anarchist trees. Can you convert a dog to Christianity? Does a dog have a buddha nature?

I think you maybe right about the ultimate truth. However what is god. God is a reality tunnel. God is what you make him to be.
That,s why there are all these religions. I don,t think one religion has the ultimate truth. When you start talking about god, you talk about a concept of god. I know that this concept is not the real thing. The map is not the territory. However when you start thinking about these concepts you exploring the map without fully experiencing the territory (the real thing).

A quote from the Tao Tse Ching

The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named is not the eternal name

Taoism is very much a nature religion. The Tao Tse Ching is a book all about tao. How can this book be all about the way if the way that can be spoken about is not the real way?

Maybe we can use poetry and art to express the way. Like a zen koan for example.

 

[BrainEater]

hey!!... yeah, i agree with what you say. and i do know what you mean.... lol....
hmmmm.. actually i am still trying to recover from the times where i was thinking too much and it seems the wheel was spinning a little bit too fast or so... i also think it can be very healing to do a simple walk in nature or simply look at the trees, animals, clouds, rivers, lakes, oceans, etc... it seems the simple natural beingness can beat anything else... not sure what's a really good way of saying that. well in nature life seems to be a struggle also, but it's probably more natural for the lack of a better description now and maybe it's almost as if even though it's a struggle there is something peaceful to it in nature... or least more peaceful than the human struggle?? not really sure..
ahhh hmm just remembering something from islam now... as i couldn't remember more sayings from other religions in the previous post.. anyway i hope the quote is somewhat fitting.. i think it was something like "..there are signs in nature for those who believe..." maybe there is some wisdom in that?


regarding religions... maybe god has made it all quite intelligently??? i often had the impression that when cultures and/or religions can work together it can be very enriching.. probably even a bit like it can be good for both sides or it can be bad for both sides, depending on something that i can't quite seem to be able to put into words very well`now...
if you ask me i would say one thing about god seems to be that to describe the indescribable can only be done wrong. however i suppose we can clearly see that almost all the time people are talking about god all over the world. hopefully we can draw a more or less meaningful conclusion.
maybe one thing about ying and yang now.. not sure but perhaps not so many are aware what it really is???
i think it isn't simply light and darkness... it's the light in the darkness and the darkness in the light.
so what does it all mean etc etc??? maybe hopefully it could possibly mean we can find new/old ways for instance in order to heal ourselves and the planet. or yeah i dunno lol... why are we here etc etc???
maybe we are simply here and why doesn't matter?? but i guess that's only one possible answer..



peace

 

[Finarfin]

The Taijitu (yin yang symbol) is a depiction of the two forces that make up the tao (the way, everything that is and everything that is not).
These two forces are in a ever moving dynamic process with each other. They are locked in a universal and everlasting dance with each other.
Another depiction of these forces we see in the I Ching, where we have the broken and unbroken lines (yin and yang) Sometimes we see the symbol of the Taijitu with the hexagrams of the I Ching surrounding it.

 

[Finarfin]

When it comes to religion there are two major directions or schools. There is the exoteric and the esoteric. The fundamentalist and the mystics. The religion of books, rules and laws and the religion of the direct experience. Mysticism is a very different world (view) compared to (normal straight forward) religion or philosophy. Mysticism is not something that is to be (intellectually) understood. Mysticism says that you can,t find god in a church or temple. Mysticism is not about bowing before a statue or praying and following the rules of the religion (and society).
the exoteric religion is all about going to the temple and respecting the rules of the religion and society. Often exoteric religion is about the community.
Mysticism the opposite of the exoteric religion. It's about the individual and about the direct experience of god/reality/tao/the way.
Mysticism is often very vague and mysterious. Mystics often use poetry to talk about that which can not be talked about and can not be intellectually understood. For example in Zen Buddhism they use koans.

To come back to the yin yang symbol (Taijitu). The black and the white are one. The two forces belong to each other. I think that the line in the middle is a symbol for the golden ratio (golden section or golden mean). The line separates the two forces and with this separation creates the fractal forms in this fractal energetic reality. Without this line everything would be one big static soup without lines or boundaries and without dynamics.

Sometimes we think of the world in a dualistic fashion. We think of it as opposites. However with a lot of things there is not really an opposite. There is one thing and the absence of this one thing. For example there is light and the absence of light we call darkness. Or there is wetness and the absence of wetness we call dryness.

Male and female are not really opposites because male and female need to come together to create new life. Male and female need to work together. We all have male and female yin and yang in us.

It,s hard as hell to talk about this stuff. Sometimes buddhist or mystics talk about nothingness or emptiness. When you think about nothing you thing about something. Nothing is something. Even nowhere is somewhere. You can not get around it and you can not think your way out of it. because you can not intellectually think your way out of it the mystics use methods that do not really on the rational or on intellectual understanding. You sort of need to get out of your mind to understand what the mystics talk about.

It,s sort of like when you are in the flow you just go with it and don,t think about it. It can happen to a dancer or a musician or when doing sport. It,s just like sex. When you have (good) sex you don,t think about it. You feel the flow and just go with that feeling.

i think the intellect has it,s place. I think it,s good to think logical and to be critical. However i think it,s good to know the limitations of the intellect. If you do not know it,s limitations it can became a prison for your mind. It can become a reality tunnel that you are not aware of. It,s not about one thing versus the other. It,s not about the rational against the irrational. Or the darkness versus the light. It,s about balance. Balance between the left and the right brain. Balance between yin and yang. Between the different elements.
In the western esoteric tradition we have the four elements fire water earth and air (tarot, alchemy, astrology and such) In the Chinese tradition there are other elements (I ching, taoism, chinese alchemy)

 

[Finarfin]

In China they have a famous drawing known as the vinegar tasters. On this drawing we see tree man tasting vinegar. These trree man are Confucius, Buddha and Lao Tse. Each has a different reaction to the taste of vinegar (life) For Confucius the vinegar (life) is sour. He sees a problem in life and says people and government need to follow the way of the universe. For Buddha the vinegar is bitter. He sees a problem in life because he sees suffering and wants to get rid of it.
For Lao Tse the vinegar taste sweet. He sees no problem in life because he sees life as something natural and good. According to the taoist everything is part of the tao. The vinegar is part of the tao. Lao Tse taste the tao and does not judge this taste.

Taoism is a nature religion and is different from the later urban religions. In the west we have gnosticism. I think Gnosticism is an urban religion. It makes a distinction between the material and spiritual. Some gnostics even go so far as to claim that the material world is created by a false god (demiurge). Like in the matrix movies where the false reality is created by the machines (false god). this type of gnostic religions see a problem in life.
In a nature religion there are no such distinctions. In taoism everything is part of the way (tao). It,s all about nature. Nature is not good or bad it just is. Matter and spirit are not separated.
I think that the first religions where shamanic nature religions. Thinks started to change when people discovered fire. And it changed even more with the invention of agriculture and the rise of the city state and urban living.

Seeing life as a problem has a downside as well as an upside. The fear of death for example makes people explore ways to life longer.
The problem of suffering made the buddha have some very deep realizations that can be very useful.

There are two schools of Buddhism Theravada and Mahayana. The mahayana school is influenced by taoism in china and by the shamanic Bon Po religion in Tibet. Zen for example if a form of Mahayana Buddhism. The Theravada school of Buddhism is more true to the original teachings of the Buddha and is a lot less mystical.

 

[BrainEater]

hey that's interesting!!... thanks again for such a nice and good answer. hmm something you said in the almost last part of the last post reminded me of a saying from some cigarette rolling papers...lol sometimes they had good sayings... anyway, it was something like: "it's not about giving the life more days, but about giving the days more life." i think it's possibly quite a deep thought or so...
i am not sure whether right now i can say a lot about the rest of what you say. nevertheless definately some really interesting thoughts and good explanations right there. also for example cool that you come up with the chinese story...
maybe a bit like basic chemistry and the rough or not rough psychedelic aspect of (basic?) life??
lol...it's so easy somehow...well hmm maybe science and real life... as i experienced it in my own life, science needs to be refined through peaceful and loving attitudes towards nature, yourself and others. and for example refine religion through science?? etc etc... but it seems to me it's also a very rough generalisation somehow.
so yeah.. i guess i still need to think a little bit more about everything now. :retard:





peace :weed:

 

[zohaa3492]

Every culture have some ''drugs'' that they are helping the society to ''move on'' unfortunately on us (west world) is smokes and alcohol, is the most convenient , make as ego maniacs and consume machines.
They dont want psychedelics because makes us aware.

 

[Finarfin]

Every culture have some ''drugs'' that they are helping the society to ''move on'' unfortunately on us (west world) is smokes and alcohol, is the most convenient , make as ego maniacs and consume machines.
They dont want psychedelics because makes us aware.

Who are they? Who are the people that don, t want psychedelics and keep them illegal?
I think that religion is the number one repressive force that keeps psychedelics illegal.
It, s not that they prefere one drugs over the other. They don, t want any drugs at all.
Remember that alcohol was prohibited.
It, s the religious fundamentalist that want to make everything illegal.
Religious fundamentalist are against everything except there god.
They see satan everywhere and are against everything, not just drugs.

Why can, t gay people marry in some parts of the world?
Why do woman not have the same rights as man in some parts of the world?

Because it, s writen that, s why (monthy pyton life of brian)

Yes it, s because of religious fundamentalist. These fckrs are the people that want to control other peoples lifes and tell everybody how to live.

Isn, t it funny that only (christian) religious sects are allowed to use psychedelics (as a sacrement). As long as you use psychedelics to worship god you, re allowed.
I think this is wrong and that, s why i do not like the word entheogen.