The Psychedelic Community and Cultural Taboos

[BrainEater]

of course but why you think you would possibly not get the "whole" truth and die on the way ... ??

 

[IJesusChrist]

Why do we have children... That's like asking the meaning of life... I can't answer that. The reason we have children is to prolong life, but why do we want to?

Some say it's beauty, others say its purpose.

I really have no drive or want to have my OWN children... I just want to raise life, to bring a child as close to what I see as perfect as I can... i.e. happy.

If I may ask, what 'group' of people are you talking about Vapour? These people seem like they are willing to forget their experiences on psychedelics, rather than embrace them. It may be that they are actually stupid. Literally.

Many people get a 'feeling' of connectedness, and just blatanly out-right say "Oh my god we're all connected". Personally I don't care for this type of thought. Well no shit we're all connected, you've been living in a society all you're life! You watch T.V.! Everything you do is basically connected to humans, takes you a large amount of entheogens to notice this?

Anyways, I'm pretty sure if you ask a question on this forum you're going to get a straight-forward response.

Some people out there have done LSD, mushrooms once, and they actually brag about it. These are the people, when asked about psychedelics, say "We're all connected man" But never care to elaborate - because they felt it once, and thats all that stuck.

Some people desperately want to be smart - so they will say something that sounds intelligent, without agreeing with it or even understanding what they are saying.

But really, who have you been asking this to? (In a general sense - I don't want names obviously)

 

[VapourTrail]

I'm not so sure.

You do not choose to be born and if you do you do not remember.

Responsible parents do choose to have kids and that means it is possible to know why they did it.

 

[Jeniger]

I do not like the idea that we should lie about the true nature of existence to those people who truly want to know it.

In everything u read.... u will read your own reality, there are multiple levels of reality, if u dont understand one (by metafors)it's just simply not your time yet, thats the way i see it... People also can get tired of being misunderstood and be quiet sometimes

 

[VapourTrail]

I do not like the idea that we should lie about the true nature of existence to those people who truly want to know it.

In everything u read.... u will read your own reality, there are multiple levels of reality, if u dont understand one (by metafors)it's just simply not your time yet, thats the way i see it... People also can get tired of being misunderstood and be quiet sometimes

If you tell me that your trip just revealed to you how to build a perpetual motion machine, you better dispense with the metaphors and get out the soldering iron or retract your statement.

There are some things that don't need metaphors.

Some statements should be backed by solid fact and demonstration. The example above is one of those.

Other examples may be different but those in no way invalidate a statement I made about other examples.

There are some things that when you hear about them you should demand demonstration.

Some things are just trips and it is no good wearing a cloak of superiority and pretending it was your time and it isn't anyone else's. Some things are unique to you and the only way other people will experience them is by adequate description from you.

Some things require a prescription of a heroic dose in a comfortable setting in silent darkness.

I do not suggest that there is one solution that fits every occurrence, just that some situations produce baulking.

 

[Forkbender]

I'm not sure I feel happy with the label "enabler". Haha.

It has negative cultural connotations that you are the reason someone is able to do something they shouldn't be doing.

yes, maybe it is the wrong word. Enabling people to fullfill their potential isn't a bad thing, though.

I do not wish to enable learning in the way that a teacher would - I cannot, I have nothing to teach.

Far from not having all the answers, I don't even have all the questions yet.

Creating the environment in which people can learn is more important than transferring knowledge. I think dogma is the result of too much of the latter and too little of the former.

Hiding knowledge isn't good, but sometimes things are hidden in plain sight and people have to take a step themselves to learn it, sometimes a step they aren't willing to take. By providing a safe setting for people to learn (be it in schools or in psychedelic sessions), the steps are easier.

Consider this:
If you are stressed, your body tenses, you are directed by fight/flight mechanisms. Once you get in an environment where you can relax, all this tension can be released. But one thing is essential: you need to let the tension go, i.e. not cling to them. If you are able to do that, something like wisdom starts to appear. When this wisdom grows, you will eventually be able to access it at any time, even in situations that were stressful before. Negative emotions like fear and anger become allies, because they protect you when needed and help you stay centered.

Ohm's law is nice, but if you don't understand the law, it is just a formula for giving the right answer in a test.

 

[VapourTrail]

Lots of mixing words around there.

Sure, things can be hidden in plain sight but that does not speak at all to hiding knowledge.

The phrase may say that things are hiding in plain sight, reality is that things LURK there. That phrase is generally not used to mean that something has actually been hidden. They are not hidden unless you believe in someone who did the hiding. That knowledge can be hidden in plain sight is a metaphor and not the reality as knowledge cannot be physically seen, although essays containing the knowledge can be.

It true that being able to apply Ohm's law in a test does not mean you understand it but again, as long as the knowledge isn't lost you don't have to waste months or years of your time to end up with Forkbender's law instead - the possibility of understanding it is freely available and that is what matters.

That some people will only choose to learn enough to get by is neither here nor there as long as no one else is limited in their understanding because of those people.

Helping people to fulfil a potential is a great thing if you can do it - I was just chuckling at the word, which is normally used negatively. Immature, maybe - but I enjoyed it.

As for reactions under stress - all true. I think this is true of all emotions, that you have to learn to deal with them and not be swept away in them. I think this may be the root of emotional maturity.

 

[Forkbender]

I agree. Though I must say that there are things that can be known that cannot be grasped until experienced by yourself instead of heard off through others who have experienced it. (You don't know what love is until you feel it) I guess this is the thing that separates wisdom from knowledge. In this sense, hiding knowledge is wrong de facto and hiding wisdom doesn't happen because real wisdom radiates and cannot be hidden. Showing wisdom to others inspires them to grow wise themselves. Showing knowledge can be a bit pushy/evangelical if it isn't wanted by others.

 

[VapourTrail]

I agree. Though I must say that there are things that can be known that cannot be grasped until experienced by yourself instead of heard off through others who have experienced it. (You don't know what love is until you feel it) I guess this is the thing that separates wisdom from knowledge. In this sense, hiding knowledge is wrong de facto and hiding wisdom doesn't happen because real wisdom radiates and cannot be hidden. Showing wisdom to others inspires them to grow wise themselves. Showing knowledge can be a bit pushy/evangelical if it isn't wanted by others.

I think my other replies above agree with you already?

Both in that some things need to be experienced and that you cannot force people to learn.

 

[Forkbender]

I wanted to clarify. I guess it worked.

 

[magickmumu]

I don't know if there are taboos, but who are the psychedelic community?
So many people have something to do with psychedelics. And people use them on so many levels.

 

[VapourTrail]

I wanted to clarify. I guess it worked.

Awesome.

As for who, I guess I count most of those people.

I don't really have a solid definition.

 

[magickmumu]

What are the cultural taboos of the psychedelic community?

:? I don't understand. What is the psychedelic community :?:

 

[VapourTrail]

What are the cultural taboos of the psychedelic community?

:? I don't understand. What is the psychedelic community :?:

We are, people who take psychedelic substances.

This forum is an example. I cannot tell you about every single person as I do not know them all, obviously.

As to WHAT it is, well, in this case it is a mostly arbitrary collection of people with a similar interest who may never even be made aware of each other but then, a lot of the flesh and blood people where I live are not aware of other people in the community either so I can't see that being a problem.

When I ask here, I mean members of this forum.

 

[magickmumu]

When it comes down to this forum there are no taboos here, only the forum rules.
A topic about (example) sex with animals is no problem here.
It has nothing to do with psychonautics, But who cares. Anything goes here as long as you keep by the forum rules.

 

[Jeniger]

If you tell me that your trip just revealed to you how to build a perpetual motion machine, you better dispense with the metaphors and get out the soldering iron or retract your statement.

My trips did not reveal that specificly , but i can understand what the metaphor is explaining afther a long time of interest, practise and reading about "psychedelics"

For example few years ago i would not have understand the metaphor but know i do.That doesnt mean i agree with it.Actually this happended with a lot of talks and lectures from psychedelic speakers, i can connect the dots better and see a bigger picture more then ever.
I can not give solid demonstrations, i am not a scientist and have no intentions in that direction.I think it goes hand in hand with consiousness expansion... and david lynch nails it on the head
[youtube]z2UHLMVr4vg[/youtube]

 

[silv]

I sometimes get the feeling that adopting a mainly scientific approach to psychedelics and related issues has something of a taboo around it. I think people often feel like they're being attacked when someone is defending a more skeptic worldview and asking challenging questions that often cannot be answered by a more esoteric (for lack of a better word) view.

edit: feels like I'm going ot a bit from the discussion, but I felt this might be an interesting contribution.

 

[st.bot.32]

It seems to me that smart people take psychedelics and ask even more questions, fools take psychedelics and become overconfident and self-absorbed.

 

[Forkbender]

^both, in my case. :|

 

[Forkbender]

I sometimes get the feeling that adopting a mainly scientific approach to psychedelics and related issues has something of a taboo around it. I think people often feel like they're being attacked when someone is defending a more skeptic worldview and asking challenging questions that often cannot be answered by a more esoteric (for lack of a better word) view.

edit: feels like I'm going ot a bit from the discussion, but I felt this might be an interesting contribution.

I think the taboo is mostly outside of the psychedelic community. But I also think you are right.

@ David Lynch:
rayer: