the money system is evil

[ophiuchus]

It is a great notion to set out on your own without money but without it you cant possibly have the things that we take for granted

things would not be the way they are now, society would take a different course all together.

Money is necessary to have society.

i dont believe this at all. it is not necessary. time has proven this. it could be a useful tool though if used properly, which it is not.

 

[Mrjelly]

things would not be the way they are now, society would take a different course all together.



i dont believe this at all. it is not necessary. time has proven this. it could be a useful tool though if used properly, which it is not.

"things would not be the way they are now, society would take a different course all together."

I agree with you, things would be vastly different, but can we have the technology that exists today without the corruption and power plays that we have now? I think it is possible but it would take a lot of change and education. It would also take tearing down the complete fabric of society, a lot of people would die, and fear would run rampant. I have learned from history that fear does scary things to society, for everyone to get clear of this unscathed it would take a very enlightened society, I do not see that happening at this point.

"i don't believe this at all. it is not necessary. time has proven this. it could be a useful tool though if used properly, which it is not."

if you go to a barter system it is essentially the same as money, trading one thing for another is just like trading cash for services or goods. The only thing that cash does is give everyone an equal opportunity for future success by allowing people to hold a commodity that can be exchanged to anyone (even if they already have the chickens that you are trying to trade). The down side is that evil people have the means and lack of morals to make decisions based on what is good for the group. Communism doesn't work though, we have seen that those who are placed in charge will either be corrupted or eventually be replaced with corrupt people.

Please enlighten me with a time that is relevant to today that money is not necessary.

Like the debate and insight thank you!

 

[ophiuchus]

"can we have the technology that exists today without the corruption and power plays that we have now?" i think that if there was a better way, then it would have been so. but i dont think that the corruption is an inherent part of technology. it helped us get here fast, but at a very serious cost. i think that should be the focus of advancement in technology now, the focus must shift from quantity, to quality.

bartering works, and money works. it just when the idea of debt (interest) is inserted that it all becomes sticky. i realize what would happen if there was no interest on things like loans, but at the same time, i believe that this could be circumvented entirely with some creativity. i like the idea of a credit score, maybe a variation of that could prove viable.

 

[Mrjelly]

I agree it is the credit thing that feeds the greed, that and the cleaver marketing. You know it will be Greed that ends mankind!

 

[zgoat69]

Money (or rather the lack thereof) is what got SWIz introduced to the world of clandestine chemistry. Interest is just the way of the world. If people would stop wanting something for nothing, then the idea of interest would become obsolete. Think of Native Americans culture. They lived within their means, and when they wanted something that they didn't have, they offered trade. The problem is that people want a lot of what they don't have, and what they want they can't afford. If people learned to simply bee content with what they have and where they are, then there wouldn't bee creditors. Cuz those that HAVE are more than willing to let you have too, but for a price.

 

[Mrjelly]

Money (or rather the lack thereof) is what got SWIz introduced to the world of clandestine chemistry. Interest is just the way of the world. If people would stop wanting something for nothing, then the idea of interest would become obsolete. Think of Native Americans culture. They lived within their means, and when they wanted something that they didn't have, they offered trade. The problem is that people want a lot of what they don't have, and what they want they can't afford. If people learned to simply bee content with what they have and where they are, then there wouldn't bee creditors. Cuz those that HAVE are more than willing to let you have too, but for a price.

Well said!

 

[Logetorenk]

i would like to say that as THE numbers of varieties are increasing the price range of them also varies according to their quality one can one piece of shirt at different price ranges and in different qualities that .so that dosent matters a lot in this case

 

[Novakovic]

an awesome thought...agree is not the exact world..i have just similar thoughts and i m fed up of this whole theory of earning money money and money in everything...people have become so materialistic that there demands never come to an end..and they earn money and dump money...especially the girls..every person is a business man and every country is an enterprenuer..those who are the ones who get screwd everytime..cause they cant buy even there basic needs..

 

[beefcharcoal]

Couldn't agree more

 

[Mrboxey]

While the money system is slavery, we choose to as how much we want to be a slave to it.

As was mentioned in some posts above, if we can learn to live within our means, and not need to have a bunch of crap we "think" we need, and learn to just be happy with where we are (as long as our needs are taken care of) then we are no longer a slave to this money system.

Of course we will always be a slave to it on some level. We always need to buy food, clothes, pay for shelter, power etc. And that is the hook, we will always need money for something.. There has been talk of going back to the barter system, and then it becomes greatly, supply and demand. And our current system wouldn't work on barter that is for sure... Could you imagine online transactions? (Please send 1 cow for that PS3) yeah... that wouldn't work out too well, would it?

Also in terms of your job and work, would you want to be paid this week in the form of 3 chickens, and next week a laptop or cell phone, and then the Christmas bonus would be a bag of toilet paper? So the barter system would have its flaws in our society today as well.

Thing is, the entire system needs to be changed, the thing is, what do you change it to? We don't really have an alternative, so I guess we'll always be a slave to the money system in that regard.

 

[BrainEater]

i just lament the growing meaninglessness of the system that we have which mostly seems to be capitalism...maybe it should be more or with a better quality be unified with a philosophical system of some sorts or so... i don't know if that's the right way to say it, but hopefully you get the point lol....
for example try to see society as a system of cycles a bit like nature, but try to do it unbiased without the "standard anxiety program" or so if i may call it like that lol...

well in my opinion the meaninglessness is simply a product of too much greed for profit of a few that can damage the whole a lot or something like that... because what sense does it make if we got so much shit to buy etc etc if the people don't have the money to buy it. if you ask me this is part of why the richer grow richer and the poor poorer... there should be a better balance or so...

i have seen a lot restaurants empty a lot and snack bars with seemingly nothing sold in the evening... well this doesn't have to mean a lot or i could be wrong, but it seems it is also pointing towards something very very important in my opinion....!!!!:idea::cker79: we should all probably think deeply about how and when the money system destroys the healthy community sense of society.... i don't think we should submit to the dehumanisation that is being done on large scales!!! it's like "they"/that kind of people would want to exploit us if they could like in the third world... think of how the workhorses in so many places get paid the least although they work the most... we need to wake the fuck up!!! :? :Oo: :!:

for example think about this !! :cker79: have you realized how a lot of people are "from a certain perspective or so" not so obviously only given just enough so they can survive and what sense it could make from "another perspective" that they hence have no time and/or energy to think or even feel deeply or so??? this is shocking, but not very surprising considering that some people can be like demons when it's about greed for profit and power and these people are just very toxic. only because they can be cruel and violent on some levels they are "leaders or so"??? seriously, why can't it be good for everybody???? and no personal or collective fear excuses!!
i want all of you to think about that. :!::!::!:


so the point is not that we don't need a money system, but more something like a more equal money system. or to put it like this: a more fair and less dehumanzing balance between inflation and deflation.
believe me, there is enough and most likely more than enough for everybody. don't believe the lies and the fear mongering. just "try" to see and think for yourself, right?? ... lol 8):!:




peace

 

[Mrboxey]

i just lament the growing meaninglessness of the system that we have which mostly seems to be capitalism...maybe it should be more or with a better quality be unified with a philosophical system of some sorts or so... i don't know if that's the right way to say it, but hopefully you get the point lol....
for example try to see society as a system of cycles a bit like nature, but try to do it unbiased without the "standard anxiety program" or so if i may call it like that lol...

well in my opinion the meaninglessness is simply a product of too much greed for profit of a few that can damage the whole a lot or something like that... because what sense does it make if we got so much shit to buy etc etc if the people don't have the money to buy it. if you ask me this is part of why the richer grow richer and the poor poorer... there should be a better balance or so...

i have seen a lot restaurants empty a lot and snack bars with seemingly nothing sold in the evening... well this doesn't have to mean a lot or i could be wrong, but it seems it is also pointing towards something very very important in my opinion....!!!!:idea::cker79: we should all probably think deeply about how and when the money system destroys the healthy community sense of society.... i don't think we should submit to the dehumanisation that is being done on large scales!!! it's like "they"/that kind of people would want to exploit us if they could like in the third world... think of how the workhorses in so many places get paid the least although they work the most... we need to wake the fuck up!!! :? :Oo: :!:

for example think about this !! :cker79: have you realized how a lot of people are "from a certain perspective or so" not so obviously only given just enough so they can survive and what sense it could make from "another perspective" that they hence have no time and/or energy to think or even feel deeply or so??? this is shocking, but not very surprising considering that some people can be like demons when it's about greed for profit and power and these people are just very toxic. only because they can be cruel and violent on some levels they are "leaders or so"??? seriously, why can't it be good for everybody???? and no personal or collective fear excuses!!
i want all of you to think about that. :!::!::!:


so the point is not that we don't need a money system, but more something like a more equal money system. or to put it like this: a more fair and less dehumanzing balance between inflation and deflation.
believe me, there is enough and most likely more than enough for everybody. don't believe the lies and the fear mongering. just "try" to see and think for yourself, right?? ... lol 8):!:




peace

The whole reason that we couldn't change to a more "Fair" system is that those at the top would not want to give up some of what they have to have a more "fair" system.

Even communism had its problems. I'm not saying we need to go to communism, or that communism is bad, or good for that matter, I am only saying it is one of the alternative money systems that has been tried and it failed miserably.

The truth of the matter is, any money system is going to have its flaws, and there isn't going to be a "perfect" money system, and no matter how hard you try, you are not going to create a "perfectly fair" money system... And the thing is, again, what would you have it replaced with?

You see, communism is a great idea, but two main things get in the way, and the same two things get in the way with any kind of money system.

1. Greed
2. Laziness

These are the two human conditions that will put a wrench in ANY kind of money system (or any kind of system for that matter).

So, as long as we have these two human conditions, we are not going to find Utopia.. However, I believe the world is what you make of it.. so I will choose to make my own small corner better, and let the rest of the world spin where it wants....

 

[BrainEater]

well sure lol... just stay inside your box lol... can you see how we are being domesticated like that? so we all live in our own little unfair worlds and can easily being played out against each other. man...

but i think some of your argumentation makes kind of sense... well i have already thought about that, too and my conclusion is that the communist-nazis are taking over until the not so much sort of stone age philosophers will take their walks or so thru the system or maybe more like many systems??? right???
well my point is that it can be good or bad that society can work with pressure against the individual or vice versa and nowadays with more artificial technical means.
and well i don't like it very much, but maybe you could even see it like that communist nazis can be good or bad depending whether you like their means, ends or whatnot.:retard:
but i am still very much for individualism. i think everyone should be an individual lol..:retard:
and interestingly enough maybe you could even say there is good and bad greed and laziness. it just depends somewhat on the perspective. so do you think just because you are a slave and they tell you that it's good to be a slave, that it's really good? and well it doesn't necessarily have to be bad to want to have money as well... i would say it depends on how and for what you use it and "what you are willing to do to get the money" or something like that. that is the crucial point here. dehumanisation and the capitalistic system have gone hand in hand in a similar way like christian imperialism which we all know hasn't been the nicest way a lot of the time to put it mildly. that's why i am saying that we need to counter the emotionless type of capitalism or so with philosophy and open minded strategy/tactics or so.

if you ask me, the psychedelic factor has been disregarded and abused way too much. but i think it's getting better. more and more people are opening up to empathy. and i think many try to be positive in spite of all the evil people etc etc.... for example the illusion of hope that they are selling us in advertisements etc etc... yet we can look thru the fake shit, because we can listen to our feelings. and even if not and if we have become entangled by stupid shit, it doesn't matter we don't have to lose hope and can always free our minds... please just don't buy the fear mongering bullshit and the lies etc etc really!!!...

but now remember the movie "fear and loathing in las vegas"... Raoul Duke: And that, I think, was the handle - that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of old and evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn't need that. Our energy would simply prevail. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look west, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.

i just think maybe a similar metaphoric wave might be going on on the whole world and it's on its way again!!!! :rock:... in the 60s and 70s there was a revolution going on but something seemed to have hindered it from completely having succeeded... maybe something with the energy thing wasn't completely pure or whatnot ... so maybe the wave after having somewhat rolled back is now coming again... ignorance has ruled more than enough... it's time for revolution.
well lol even astrology is pointing towards something like that in the near future... that there will be a shift of the ages to an age of abundance. and as i see it, it could make a lot of sense, because in the western world a lot is constructed and established or somtehing like so that basically we only need to stop the greed and help the other countries that we have had exploited for a long time....
just think about it and don't believe the lies. research the term "fnord" for example. free your mind. anything is possible. don't believe the mostly very stupid and ignorant fear propaganda that is going on in the media.
what if basically all we need to do is to be nice to each other... we have been fooled by forced mental limitations a lot. now don't believe what i say, but just "try" to think for yourself, right?? beyond school propaganda programs. lol... :retard::rock:


peace :weed:

 

[Mrboxey]

Again, it's not as simple as just changing the system. Any sort of wide spread change would take centuries at best.

The only way we are going to get out of the money slavery system is if another system from outside comes in and demands that we change to their different system, and the only way that is going to happen is if we are invaded by aliens... And since aliens are probably 100 times smarter than we are right now, won't even bother with us because we are just too interested in making money and killing each other.

So, who would want to help and clean something like that up? I'm sure that the other intelligent life out there is just sitting back and waiting to see how long it will take before we destroy ourselves.

And again, what would you replace the money system with? You never really answered that?

How would people be compensated for their work? How would people trade? Would it be the barter system? Or something else? I don't think there really is anything else, besides the money system and the barter system.

UNLESS: As I mentioned before some external force could come down and say HEY! YOU! You are ALL going to be assigned jobs, etc, however, everything will be FREE. You will continue to work, to produce, and everything as normal, but everything will be FREE from now on!

Everyone will be relocated to a house of the same size, everyone will have access to the same movies, restaurants, videogames, etc etc. EVERYONE will have the same car, same appliances etc

So... I ask you, what's the point in that sort of system? Everyone can just get whatever they want for free, so what's the incentive to work? And if they only got access to all the stuff for free, then they still work, what would be the incentive to make new things?

See what I am getting at? It's not an easy answer, or an overnight fix... WHAT do you replace with what is currently here?

 

[BrainEater]

well maybe not everything that we already have is bad... maybe some things,ideas, concepts, even objects or whatnot are simply misused/abused a lot...

and hey what if the aliens might have already invaded us, but they haven't made themselves known or so??
for example, but take this with a pinch of salt please, what if the concept of computers has not completely been understood yet or maybe something like integrated in the best ways and for example look at the evolution of computers and technology and how there had been sort of an acceleration in the evolution and to what mathematical functions or so it might allude and how you could interpret that in the context of life, society and well *cough* light. lol..

i guess a relative good hint could be: einstein... lol.. how it's all relative etc etc... :Oo: :retard:

maybe it's with a system a bit similar like with a person... you can't really change the person, but you can show the right way and the person can only change itself then.
and well regarding the money system i don't think i said i would necessarily want to replace it... well attempts of that have been made, think of microchips...

and just think for a second please... not so long ago there was only TV and now there's also internet... so the quantum observer effect is becoming more and more significant... i guess i would suggest to reflect about the meaning of self-observation... the important question here is rather logically, whether you can or would want to trust the system or so??
of course you could call it a furter step in the evolution of the money system, but i still don't really like it... for example what about the natural functions of the nervous system etc etc... do you think they have really understood it completely already etc etc.. ?? i just think that nature is still a much greater architect than mankind. i am somewhat lamenting the artificialness and fakeness that came with the concept of systems or so... but yeah of course maybe it all has a specific purpose that we can't see now.


and well... the idea is really a more "equal money system", because think of what a few people can do to the whole system, by for example having billions and billions (!!!!!!!!) on their bankaccounts and how whole countries "go down".... and those motherfuckers rather spend billions for stupid war shit... shit like that you know?? it can't go on like that...

again this is simply one of the main points that is bothering me so much... the growing meaninglessness that is there in some sense, when the money system
is not equal. and maybe people in general have now at least in tendency learned somewhat to deal with money in general on the large scales. it just has become much more popular. just think a little bit... individuals learn and evolv but the collective also... it's just from a certain perspective a not very uncomplex process... :Oo:

well people have been dumbed down a lot, but a lot of people are also waking up..

so, if you ask me, it boils down that society, especially nowadays in the advanced globalisation state so to say, has to be able to work in the right way with pressure against the individuals.
it's like in that sense i think we might need a little bit more true empathy, peace, love and understanding. it's about learning... the question is why have we allowed so much suffering and are possibly also causing it?? maybe it's like a yell for help in a subliminal way.. that people think they have to act as if they are "oh so smart" or whatnot, but in truth a lot are simply pretending in a similar way like maybe adults think that they are "oh so grown up" or whatnot. i hope you know what i mean...
what if basically people only need to be nice to each other or at least try and how they treat others can in some sense tell something about themselves, too...
in that sense i would not say people are not willing to work, but people should not be willing to trade or sell their energy and time for nothing... and in my opinion the willingness to work can also be decreased by for example too exagerated bureaucrazy or hypocrisy. so maybe keep factors like that in mind when you meditate about the dehumanisation that the capitalism system seems to have brought with it on global scales, despite the benefits.

as i said it's not always so obvious.. and can depend on the kind of perspective-glasses you wear. but no panic now please.... sometimes it's simply more a stupidity test than a intelligence test, if that's the right way to say it. and besides there is always the possibility for change and evolution, even if we can't see it.


i guess in a common sense way this simply means something like work should contain a healthy balance or so of fun, challenging, interesting, rewarding "activity" or so.
think of capitalism and how exploitation in various ways always seems to be an element of it, of course sometimes more and sometimes less obvious.
that is the damn point, because lobbyism, classism and dehumanism have become a central factor in capitalism if you see capitalism as a whole globalistic/globalised system that involves economics and politics. and how that shit is in a lot of places sometimes more and sometimes less obvious corrupted like shit.
do you think most politicians "CAN" even represent the population?? and have you noticed how some countries seem to become more like corporations in their own ways...???
are all borders visible or are there also sort of invisible wars going on?? just think of the concept of energy etc etc... and what can all that possibly tell us about the evolution of thought and the concept of "mind"??
well i would speculate that it could be something like a concept of polarisation between the ideas/concepts of evolution and revolution.
for example is judgement always supposed to be something non-violent?? *sigh* maybe try to think a little bit more deeply or so... and what is the purpose of keeping society in chains....?? hmm mind you lol, at least in my impression it could almost be a philosophical argument lol...

so judge wisely and maybe we can achieve a good differentiation between capitalism/ philosophy/ slavery and money/trading system...
for example is enforced fairness or so real fairness??? and should we be suspicious if people act like only because we become angry we can't be right or something like that?? should we submit to dehumanisation and to suppressing our true feelings?? i don't think so... i think it can be very beneficial to have healthy sense of skepticism and for doubts..

*sigh*




hmm by the way, it seems to me you are also alluding to a concept that in my opinion is sometimes more obvious and sometimes less obvious, but i think it can bear dangers in its own way.. and that is universality or maybe something strange like universalism (allusion to religion)... maybe try to look at the media world and the world in general with the universal-glasses or the not-universal glasses, of course in a metaphoric or symbollic sense, right?? maybe then you might be able to see shit clearer...



and yeah surely if we could do magic we wouldn't have to work, right?? i also want to suggest to for example have another look at magic.. maybe most people have had first a unclear idea and then a supposedly clear idea and then they all have their own bias or not-bias mind-filters or metaphoric glasses how they see the world..
this doesn't mean that they are all right or all wrong of course...
furthermore what if only some people could do magic and others not... or well of course maybe they could in some sense all have their own kind of magic, right??? lol

i guess this argument would at least partly boil down to that what for one is magic for the other is for example science which for a lot of people interestingly enough equals to not-magic.
the last point in that topic is that a lot of people supposedly need their work to feel fulfilled... or they see it as an adventure, challenge etc etc....

i simply think that one of the "things" that probably can make the greatest difference is the perspective of how you choose to look at the world and yourself etc etc... and well... if you ask me, for a lot of people the perspective is too brainwashed and dumb or sort of frozen in a bad way.... so i can tell you what the change could be... it could be a widespread change of perspective and maybe it's already happening.... *sigh* *yawn*

TV and internet have maybe fucked up a lot in that sense, but it could be that these mediums can as the great societal technical communicational evolutoniary step after simple books and pictures can turn it around, but i think only if enough people are going to turn on their imagination again..

if you ask me, a lot of western society is still based on concepts like bread and games in the roman empire. however i suppose also that a lot of people are going to wake up and society could
go through stages of revolutions, evolutions and transitions.
at that point i would want to make you aware of the idea of robots and machines and how a lot of people are seemingly becoming like that, but then i would also want to say that despite the initial concerns that are in my opinion rather healthy and natural to have, that it could possibly also be good... maybe some people live happier lives as machines/robots...
maybe you know the book "brave new world" by aldous huxley... i want you to read it if you haven't read it already... it's also about slaves and how they are conditioned into being happy as slaves... it's alarming to say the least...

so well yeah... i wouldn't say your perspective is totally bad, but maybe you could have and/or would want some slight changes in some aspects of your perspective(s) or so...
the basic idea is simply: anything is possible. and we are not only restricted by our imagination, but also by the (un-)willingness to expand our consciousness. it's a bit like a double-edged sword...
because think of how it works with psychedelics... when you are in a very negative mood and then go tripping, at least in most cases the likelyhood is greater for a bad trip... so maybe the question is then: what trips are the people on, right???

lol....

hmm maybe take it with a pinch of salt lol... well and in my opinion purification of society can be seen as either an individual but also even and/or a collective illusion... does that make sense?? hahahaa...

cheers lol!!!

peace

 

[Mrboxey]

Some interesting points.

However, isn't the use of magick sort of getting back to my original hypothesis that if given an easier way out of things mankind will do it? Magick is sort of like a short cut?

At least I see it that way sometimes.. But then.. By that same generalization, you could call computers "magick" because they do the bulk of our work for us nowadays.

As mentioned before, no easy answer.

I do agree that the system is not equal the way it is right now, however, would making it more equal really help things? If we keep on in the same system (even if you had a reset) then eventually we would get back to the same imbalance? And so, say you institute a reset every so often, people would stop working as hard because they knew a "reset" was coming and they wouldn't be any further ahead.

Human beings are very much tied to the reward for work mentality, and if it isn't "worth" it, they won't do it. Now, "worth it" is different to everyone. For one person working for $10 an hour picking up trash is "worth it" and for another person they wouldn't do it for $1000 an hour. It all depends...

I don't know man... I think the sad truth of it is, we need to sit back and enjoy the ride, and just learn to work within the current system to our advantage, and maybe help other people to do the same so that while it may not be fair, it will be more fair than if everyone kept the "I got my share, so go F off...." mentality...

People helping people... An awesome concept.. And I do believe that you get back what you put out, call it Karma I guess... Although there does come a point when you have to realize you may be trying to do too much, and have spread yourself too thin, and that is never a good thing either... Sorry, that got a bit off topic lol...

So back on to the topic at hand...

I don't think there is an answer. As long as mankind has the same sort of mentality and value system we can't replace the current system with anything else.. So, when will mankind change it's way of thinking? Your guess is as good as mine... maybe tomorrow, maybe next week, maybe in 5 years, maybe in 5 centuries, and maybe never....

 

[BrainEater]

thanks for the reply man... well i know what you mean and well it seems its just the problem or so of a class society.. similar to the caste system... this tells me that people have been treated like programs a long time ago already.
maybe something like that...

hmm i think that you pointed towards something important... maybe we mean the same thing like that we should reflect about how much the use of money and the systems or so that can come with that can destroy the healthy sense of community etc etc... :roll:

so yeah well... why not something totally different... like emigrate to virtual realities where everything can be perfect lol... but then again maybe it's perfect (and virtual? ) already in our reality and we simply can't see it??
the question here is maybe a bit like in "the matrix"... not sure if i remember it right... morpheus asks neo... "what if you had a dream that you were so sure it was real and what if you were unable to wake from that dream?? how could you tell the difference between the dream world and the real world?" well if you ask me something similar to that is actually already happening or at least in some sense... and hmm lol interestingly enough in a scene in the movie neo gets swallowed by the mirror...:Oo: :retard: aranoid:
but maybe not only the story of "the matrix" can tell us something about reality or have an impact on reality, but a lot of other stories, too. in that sense i maybe go as far as saying that reality or life can be a bit like poker lol...
how books, movies and music and basically everyone and even reality itself in some sense tell a story and we can choose to believe the stories or not...
well maybe something like that...:Oo:
moreover i don't think that magic has to be a shortcut... again it depends really a lot on perspective and what if it could simply be a result of a more holistic understanding of oneself and the world?

the thing is that society is probably also about cycles... so why exactly do you think that more equality in society especially regarding the money system is going to be bad... so you believe more in a class society where there are only very rich people and very poor people?? well it was more like that in the dark ages and in some sense i had the feeling that some aspects of the dark ages were manifesting again in our times. by the way i think illusions of hope have always been used more or less intentionally, however i would say we could draw a line between a concept of a natural matrix and a artificial matrix. well i hope you get my point...
it's just like the media use illusions a lot, maybe not exactly but a bit similar to how pokersites
want to catch the people or "the fish" lol... it's pathetic really lol...
one question we could ask ourselves is surely whether we gamble or play with strategy in a symbollic sense or how we use our brains etc etc... well maybe something like that...
so many people still think that poker is only a game of luck and isn't a lot about psychology, mathematics and calculation also...

i guess the point i am trying to make is simply that the more people that think like this and maybe in some sense they have been able to think a bit like that before naturally in general, the more "another balance" and maybe of course from another perspective imbalance will be the result.
the question then could be something like "what level (of thinking) are you on?" ... maybe something like that, because isn't society similar to insect hives at least in tendency like being organised in a relatively specific but also a bit loose hierarchy or so... and do you think we could be much more evolved as a whole planet and humanity already??? :question: how much time has passed and how much has changed since the middle ages??
and why do you think some people still think that it can't be good for everybody or so??? it's as you said mostly not an easy answer, because it also depends on who you give the answer to... think about it...

well in some sense the answer could be a clear yes and no, because it would depend on your perspective on what more evolved would be like and for example maybe we aren't even totally aware of our current stage of evolution. it probably boils down to how supposedly we need egos to survive and how at the same time egos are what hinder us so much from progressing.
so it's probably like a very wise man said before that "the mind can be a blessing and also a curse". concluding i might refer to a philosophical argument that at first glance maybe doesn't fit so well, but when you think about it it could also make sense with this topic.. it's the idea of uniting opposites in a meaningful way. also according to that very wise man who i just quoted, supposedly "both wealth and poverty are personal illusions".
let's just be optimistic... for example think of the idea of TV and common sense.
and do the concepts of creation and evolution necessarily have to contradict each other???
can we realize how we are being played out against each other and not take everything so seriously?? life is supposed to be fun.. right???
one more thing i forgot to mention is the fear-factor that seems to be there in almost anybody's life. and the shocking truth that possibly a great amount of people aren't even aware that they are afraid.. it's like they simply have accepted it as "normal" or so...
so beware of concepts that can be abused a lot like "loose change". just try to be aware... notice when thinking gets too much in the way. if you ask me, it can be pretty valuable and useful to be able to be a good and unattached observer of oneself and others.



peace

 

[Mrboxey]

Everything in the universe goes in cycles. Life, History, and even the universe itself.

Everything has a beginning, a middle, and an end.

It's like Conception, Birth, and then Death.

It happens over and over again, and there are those that believe that there is a pattern to everything. Nothing is random, even chaos has a pattern to it if you look hard enough. Everything is connected as well.

What you said about aspects of the dark ages coming back, yes, because history repeats itself. Sure we may have technology, but the issue of having different "classes" has been and always will be a problem. This is essentially where the money system comes from. It's basically hard wired into us. Since the creation of man there has always been that "survival of the fittest" aspect. And we haven't lost that, we have simply switched it from one version to another across the span of human history.

First, it was who was bigger, faster, and stronger. Then it became a matter of who was smarter. Then it became a matter of who had more land/wealth/slaves. Now it has simply become about who has the most money. So you see the trend? It's not that it hasn't always been there, it's just that we have switched up physical "real" attributes, for "virtual" attributes, which are no less real because they are virtual, because we put value in them.

What is money? Look at it... Money HAS no PHYSICAL value, it is valued insomuch as we SAY it is valued. So you can say that we are slaves of a VIRTUAL reality, just like in the matrix, because we are controlled by something which isn't even REAL... It was CREATED by us....

Will we "wake up"? Well, I think many people all over the world are starting to question the validity of this "virtual" crap that runs our lives, however, the same thing happened in the middle ages, as you have put. Basically the people got fed up with kings/queens etc and opted for a "new" system of government...

Well, let's see... What do we have now? We have an "elected" group of representatives, and ONE elected "leader" to take advice from those representatives... Hmmmm.... Sounds a lot like a King's court to me!

So, as you can see, humanity isn't really any further along than it was in the dark ages, we just have more shiny toys to play with.

I have a feeling we live in some interesting times... And are on the cusp of changes, major changes, the big question is how many of those changes will be realized in our lifetime. In the meantime, it's great to think about changing the system, but we as humans seem to fall back into the same routine over and over and over again....

I heard a really interesting theory on the whole 2012 thing.. That for a span of about 8 minutes... Humanity will know "everything" and everything will become clear... A period of enlightenment, due to the "electric universe". Be interesting for sure...

However, an end to the money system... It's not going to happen, ever. We can dream, but it just wouldn't ever work. There always has to be give/take in any kind of economy that involves trade. Earth cannot just be some giant commune unfortunately, for reasons I have already mentioned. IT just isn't hard-wired into us. We want to be free, we always strive to be better, to ensure our lives are better than our parents lives, and our children's lives are better than our lives.. (Well, those of us who are conscious of such things do... Some people don't give a rat's ass...)

I mean, eventually, some day, humanity WILL run into another species, and there will undoubtedly be trade with that species (if we haven't become extinct by then, or they decide to not wipe us out, if you listen to Stephen Hawking, that is basically what will happen...) so we'll be in the same sort of deal again.. Bartering, or some universal money LOL....

No escaping it... An even in a commune... You are trading hard work for your vegetables... No escaping it man... Everything is give and take... So in a sense, life, the earth, the universe, and everything IS a "money system".....

Whoa...... Mind Freak!

 

[BrainEater]

lol this proves the matrix theory... "some people are so hopelessly dependant on the system that they will fight to protect it"... just joking a little bit lol... well but then again this can be observed on many levels and media and mostly rich and middle class people can become blind "zealots" for their money or system-religion... :wasted:aranoid::retard:ak:
i think this reminds me of the humaneness of the middle ages... how the different "classes" of people treat each other etc etc... :-|


however anyway besides i do think it's good to practice simplifying ideas. well i guess you are pointing at how it's all a matter of dependency in some sense and how this can be good or bad. mind you i am only guessing ok... :grin:
my speculation is that the evolution of trade is a main factor in the society-revolution. because people will become more and more aware in their own ways how they are being duped and fooled.
and i just want to say a little bit beware of universal philosophy... trust your own inner feeling and what you can see. it's like puppetry with invisible strings you know??? i don't like that very much... but yeah the steps, levels, stages and ladders or whatnot of society. it's a structural hint... like how traffic has to be organised.
hmm well but then again also the somewhat strange argument that some people seemingly live happier lives as machines and robots.. i guess it just depends on the programs that they are doing, so to say.
as i said maybe the system is like a person at least in some sense.. and it's like we can't really change other persons, they can only change themselves.


i think our purpose for being here is to learn and just meditate a little bit about the negative notion that learning has gotten to it... and why this is so?? i think this is a very very interesting and crucial idea to ponder about. like the dumbing down programs of schools and universities...
also dreams... it's like our human nature got polluted by too much media shit and "music industry" and so much other shit etc etc... well maybe you could go even as far as saying that dreams are our human nature. hmm...


in some sense i am totally convinced of the reasons why history repeats itself and it's simply because we haven't learned the lesson that we were supposed to learn. it's like nature, the universe and the world has its own intelligence and feeling. my interpretation is that if we go against it in some sense, we go against ourselves and this is also a specific lesson to learn. a bit like reincarnation etc etc...

and well yeah i also think it's good to be by yourself aware of your own purpose for example like to care about yourself and your family etc etc...


and finally of course the computer analogy... i predict to you that in a similar way like you described or maaybe thought of and hopefullly in a loving way, that all shit will become more like computers. or like how it's being looked at.. think of the input output idea that computers are based on.
i don't know .. i just think a lot of people are not as nice as they claim to be, but also then again others are nicer as they claim to be.
and morpheus predicted how human beings are being changed into batteries.
it's scary... i don't really want to be a "happy slave" like in "brave new world" by aldous huxley.
fkn shit man... think of people that want to act like they know your own life better than yourself...
like people that think they're "oh so adult" or whatnot... most people that are like that somehow disgust me.. think of stephen hawking.. a victim of physics...
but yeahif it should be really necessary i will speak my mind and "i can let my fists talk". :rock::roll: and of course the lasers!!... :unibrow: ah i dunno lol... just kidding lol... :-o but seriously... a lot of shit just can't go on like that.



peace

 

[Mrboxey]

Ok, so the money system exists because we haven't learned our lesson from it yet?

Sorry, that is a HUGE simplification of what you just said... although am I right that it's sort of where you were going in the post? You mentioned history repeating itself etc, so maybe that is why we cannot seem to break free of the money system, because we simply haven't learned the lesson we are supposed to learn from it yet....

Interesting theory to look at it that way. I guess that is as valid a reason as any other we can think up.

Although, I do wish humanity would hurry up and learn the damned lesson it's supposed to learn from the money system so we can be done with it

I wonder what will come next...

Going back to your thought that history repeats itself because we haven't learned the lesson we need to learn, in a way I guess this is true.. However, the thing is, if we make mistakes, and we learn from those mistakes, why do those same mistakes get repeated? I mean we can look at some past examples and how supposedly a lesson was learned, but then I guess in the theory that we haven't, we sort of "forgot" the lesson learned, and then we repeated the process to learn it again?

Certainly something to think about...

Although, you know they also say, that the more things change, the more the stay the same... They say people change, but really at the core they stay the same.. I can sort of give the example of drinking. Say someone drinks too much a bit, but then they level out, but they still drink occasionally, not to the extent of before, they do it to remind themselves perhaps? Or maybe it's that at the base of everyone there is some program that is just supposed to run its course no matter what?

Here is a question for you... Do you believe in Fate, or Free Will? This has a lot to do with the money system, because if you believe in free will, then one can chose to just not live within the money system, grow their own food, produce their own energy, make their own clothes etc.. Of course, if they produce their own energy, what are they using it for? Lighting most likely, and where do they get the bulbs? a store... What is the store connected to? The money system... So, it seems even if you want to escape, it keeps dragging you back in...

There really isn't a way to escape completely anyway, I guess people will always need jobs, and money, to get the things they need.

Or, I guess we all just need to decide to not use the money system anymore, but in order for it to work 100% of the people all over the world would need to stop using it 100%....