Suicide

[Teonanacapilli]

That taboo thread had me thinking. What does this community have to say about suicide?

My last shroom trip at seven grams had me closer to suicide than I'd ever been before. Accepting and understanding that it (like so much else (including psychedelics)) has only been admonished by society through parent/peer-enforced programming, I decided it was not so bad a thing. I don’t think people should condemn suicide or those who do it. You have your life and if you do not wish to continue your story, you can choose a sooner ending.

I decided against it that night (and will continue to believe it is not right for me) because of the beauty, not just in the joy of life, but in the pain also. All the wonderful people with their many facets and masks, the complexity of nature and all of its contents. The oneness and interconnectedness of everything in its awesome diversity. I love being alive, so why would I want to be dead? At the same time, if I end tomorrow, that’s alright too.

Whaddaya say?

 

[trick]

I think this could be a touchy subject on here, but i aggree to a certain extent.


Im not sure about the mentaly unstable commiting suicide, because altho it IS ultimatly their decision, you have to question their state of mind. The clinicly depressed wouldnt make as well a judgment as say you did, or i would in the situation. But as far as medicly suffering, like terminal cancer, i think there should be somesort of paperwork that could be filled out aboloshing all risk of repercussions agains the hospital. An unkle of myne was termanally ill and suffering, so his doctor preformed a "surgery" on him that he wouldnt be able to sruvive, and he lost his practice. My unkle went into the surgery knowing the risks and what would happen, and i dont think the doctor should have been in any trouble, he died a painless and comfortable death under anasthesia.[sp?]

 

[IJesusChrist]

I was actually going to post this exact topic some days ago but forgot about it, thanks for doing this.

I believe suicide should never be done if one is feeling down.

I'm sure we've all had our encounters with suicide, be it a friend, or your own thoughts. I have thought about it extensively and I have found that when I actually think about doing it I am actually far, far from wanting to. However, I find that at times, I really see no reason not to, besides the fact that it would put others down, my parents, and that is the last thing I want - to spread the feeling. Lately I look at suicide unemotionally, one should never end a life because of emotion... That is adolescent and immature. Boredom would be my only reason, I feel some time I may become bored, even with the beauty and extent of reality, I can only observe so much. The world is becoming increasingly smaller and smaller, and space larger and larger, the inevitable fate of humanity is certain, we cannot all live forever either. So, if I am alone and have no children and become bored, I may take that route, someone else can use my resources who enjoys life more - someone who isn't bored.

:wink: But I'm not going to go out that way.

 

[magickmumu]

I remember a post ayhuahnix (or what's his name?) where he told us he was thinking about suicide.
Maybe some of you remember.

 

[Forkbender]

I think it is the ultimate selfish act.

 

[Psychoid]

Yes, selfish and lazy. Life is like a trip. If you badtrip, change the setting.

Suicide always felt to me as the wrongest thing one could do. Even when I was really depressed and had suicidal thoughts, I would never have considered to actually do it. Usually, thinking about how I'd do it usually made me feel better.

If you're curious, I decided that the best way was to jump down a bridge, because I'd get a big adrenalin rush, and then fall unconscious before the big bang.

But suicide is wrong.

 

[BrainEater]

sometimes i find myself in a headspace with the only desire to not exist... i then think like why would i want to continue this life of agony and sometimes joy and really think about ending my own life... but then also i think about why i am feeling so negative emotions for my own life and why i feel no love for my own life and come to the conclusion that if i want to feel good for my life and myself i need to cultivate love for my own life and not continue to wander in that negative thought and emotion spirals....... it's u reap what u sow but if you were made or made yourself unaware of what you can sow, then you'd better start remembering or thinking about why you could be where you are in the first place. but well its only a metaphor and if someone really wants to ends his/her life i think it would be cruel to not let him/her do it or to see the reasons as immature, unjustifiable or not elaborated enough but i don't doubt that in some cases possible not well reflected suicide might be prevented.


peace

 

[Psychoid]

if someone really wants to ends his/her life i think it would be cruel to not let him/her do it or to see the reasons as immature, unjustifiable or not elaborated enough but i don't doubt that in some cases possible not well reflected suicide might be prevented.

When you are depressive your brain is malfunctioning. Really. It's not working properly. Your thoughts become confused and you end up getting lost in all the negativity. You can't, in such a state of mind, take such a decision by yourself. I'm sure at least 90% of people who committed suicide wouldn't have done it if they saw how their life could have been after.

I mean... if you're really feeling so down that you don't want to live anymore, move your fucking ass. Do something else, anything, even if it seems crazy to you! It can't be worse than your current situation. There's always something else to try.

If I ever felt like really suiciding, before doing it I'd walk to the amazon jungle and try to find some community there. Or something else. I don't know. I feel good now

 

[IJesusChrist]

I think it is the ultimate selfish act.

I find it the ultimate self-less act.

Mumu, I do remember, and I wouldn't put it past ahuax, it sounds like he has had a troubling life. I wonder if he is ok...?

 

[ararat]

why do you think it is selfless?
thinking about parents/friends makes it immediately obvious that it can't be selfless.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Who am I to take up space? Who am I to take resources from others? Who am I to exist, and by existing, simply be higher than someone else? To live I must kill - I have to consume other life, I have to end other life. To realize that we are conscious of our actions, and that our actions constitute death, no matter how we live, that initself should show you how it is selfless.

 

[Teonanacapilli]

Do you call it selfish based on your own conclusions or on the conditioning you've been subjected to? It's hard to be sure of that, I suppose, how do you completely remove yourself from your conditioning? What a wonderful gift our family has given us!

It's really fascinating looking at the ideas of other cultures regarding suicide, particularly the Maya and Japanese for me, their views being contra to the ideas that I (and perhaps you) grew up around.

I really agree with the environment/setting idea though. It's like a piece of advice I gave to a suicidal friend once "volunteer for a humanitarian mission, travel the physical world and it's history, travel your mind, remove yourself from society (indefinitely if need be), observe all!" Like you said psychoid, "Do something else, anything, even if it seems crazy to you!" That's exactly it, the mere thought of which saved me from my own hand.

IJesus, that's a very interesting way of looking at it, also very agreeable for me. Maybe it is selfish to go on living, to consume, when you are not happy in life, not taking advantage of your advantages, to what is possible for you, wasting potential. We are part of a system after all. A part of me thinks that we have tampered with natural selection too much, which suicide seems naturally to be a part of (suicide is a weakness trait, logically), both with our technology and our social rules.

Sorry if that is worded strangely in some way. I wrote up an awesome reply to your input, but accidentally closed the browser!! Version two does not work as well in my eyes. The risk of replying while stoned

 

[Psychoid]

Maybe it is selfish to go on living, to consume, when you are not happy in life, not taking advantage of your advantages, to what is possible for you, wasting potential.

And isn't it pure lazyness to suicide yourself instead of doing the effort of taking advantage of your advantages, and develop your potential? And selfish to suicide youself instead of using these advantages and your potential for the good of others? We are all on the same boat.

And my conclusions about suicide come from myself, and not the conditionning I've been subjected to. I used to think that suicide was right.

 

[IJesusChrist]

If I go on to help others, am I not helping the destruction of something else? If I commit suicide, I end all possibility of me destroying life, be it plant or animal. Life only exists by the destruction of other life... We have come to be able to comprehend this - now we make the choice, is living at all, regardless of actions, the 'good' thing to do?

 

[darkwolfunseen]

Two sides of the coin in my opinion:

Heads: It's you're life (like everyone keeps saying). You can believe g-d gave it to you, or you just inherited from two people. Whatever it is, at the end of it, you are responsible for it, even it's ending.
Tails: Suicide is the ultimate act of despair. That means you would rather thrust yourself into the permanent unknown rather then face another day. It affects a series of people, not just you, so you are not allowed to just take yourself out of the picture.

Long story short: Flip carefully...

 

[Forkbender]

Who am I to take up space? Who am I to take resources from others? Who am I to exist, and by existing, simply be higher than someone else? To live I must kill - I have to consume other life, I have to end other life.

What word is most frequent above? I I I I me me me.

And you call it selfless? Plus I find it a very narrow view of what life can be all about. Happiness is not a zero-sum game.

A wise man once told me: Friendliness is hard to give away, it is almost always given back.

Do you call it selfish based on your own conclusions or on the conditioning you've been subjected to? It's hard to be sure of that, I suppose, how do you completely remove yourself from your conditioning?

Probably a little bit of both, but I don't remember to have a strong opinion about suicide at least until I started university at 18. I don't think it is a bad thing per se, but I do think it is selfish, especially because of the circumstances leading up to it. Social exclusion, not talking about what you feel to others, not standing up for what you think is important, thereby keeping your wisdom/love/whatever from the world, etc. etc.

 

[magickmumu]

I think Suicide can be selfless, but only if you don't attach to it.
But then the next question is why would someone who is selfless kill himself. It seems like a paradox to me.

@ IJC i don't know what's up with ahuax :?:

 

[DaZeD]

Yea, i agree with the people who think suicide is selfish and lazy, it is, life is a struggle it ain't easy all the time and sometimes it can get so black that you think there's no options left, but it's important not to give up, it can take years and years, but eventually with the right attitude it's possible to regain what you once was.

Ok, here goes something very personal:

I guess it's 8 years ago or something that i hanged myself with an electric cable and nearly died, i was already grey and pissed myself, i remember that i had intense colourful visuals, i can't recall what it was about, i only remember that it felt like i was in a cartoon, when i heard a voice yelling for me, it sounded like it was far far away, slowly the sound came closer and closer untill i eventually opened my eyes and remembered in shock what i had done.

My girlfriend found me hanging in my dads shack and luckily she found a big scissor and was able to cut me loose.
She saved my life.

I really don't know what drove me to do it, it was like i was on automatic pilot, i just hanged the cable over a beam and decided put the cable around my neck and stepped of off the footstool, i was severly depressed at the time because of circumstances, and i still was for many years after that day, but i'm sooooo happy i didn't die that day, and i'm sure a LOT of people who made the decision to step out of life would regret it today if they'd still be alive.I know that cause i am happy to be alive and was probably no longer then a few seconds away from actual death, i actually looked as if i was dead already, i was completely grey, but still she cut me loose.I'm thankfull for that till eternity.

I often look back at that day, and it almost makes me cry that i could be soooo stupid, i would miss out on all the beautiful things life can bring.

The interesting thing about this is Rick Strassmans theory, he claims that when people die they release DMT in the brain.
I remember this brightly coloured cartoonworld, no fractal stuff, more like a warm colourfull dream, so i asume he was right with his theory, i can't explain it otherwise.


But when people are living like a plant and there's no hope left for them, or when they are dying a very painful death i think suicide is appropriate.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Fork, that was my point, who am I?! Who am 'ME' to do anything that hurts others?! Why should I if I destroy life?!

You completely missed what I was saying according to your response!!

 

[Forkbender]

please rephrase it, then.