gammagoblin
Elfe Mécanique
- Inscrit
- 2/5/07
- Messages
- 420
tnx you just said I won the argumentGOD a dit:
.- Statut
.
Shake
Glandeuse Pinéale
- Inscrit
- 21/3/08
- Messages
- 192
Creationism is BULLSHIT and there is scientific proof.... The arguements that creationalists bring forward are absurd.. There is an AWESOME youtube video series on this.. i dont have it now but will post the link later..
just my 2 cents worth!
just my 2 cents worth!
gammagoblin
Elfe Mécanique
- Inscrit
- 2/5/07
- Messages
- 420
correction, not in YOUR realityGOD a dit:
.
G
Guest
Guest
You guys are about as spiritual as a witch doctor. "Which one"? 8)
Debate that.
Debate that.
G
Guest
Guest
Once upon a time, there were two men who lived on farms across the road from each other.
One of these men labored from early to late to plant and tend his crops, care for his livestock, improve his buildings, and repair his machinery. His wife took part-time employment in the nearby town to supplement the family income and provide for the education of their children.
The other man preferred to rise at his convenience, spent many of his days in a nearby town playing cards, talking on the street corners, or relaxing in an air conditioned bar. His crops seeded later than his neighbors -- were infested with weeds, he had no livestock, for they were too much work, his buildings were in too poor repair to keep them. His wife joined him in town -- or went her own way -- letting her housework slide -- and neglecting her children.
By virtue of his effort, enterprise, and initiative, the first man harvested a good crop. His livestock and their products brought top prices, and his farmstead had a neat, orderly appearance.
Because of his indolence and carelessness, the second man harvested little crop, and his buildings deteriorated.
Then, along came the Great Equalizer.
He looked upon the second man and said, "Your children are undernourished and underclothed! I will provide you with sustenance for yourself and for them.
"You are poverty stricken because you have little income! I will give you more money.
"Your house is in poor condition! I will build you a new one."
He looked upon the first man and said, "You have more income than you are required to provide your family with the necessities! I will take the remainder away from you.
"Your land and buildings and machinery are of great value. I will exact payment in relation to their value.
"Your production has created surpluses! Next year, I will restrict the acreage you may plant.
"I shall take much of what you have and give it to your neighbor who is less fortunate than you."
Other neighbors heard what the Great Equalizer had to say, and they reasoned thus: "Why should we labor when the returns of our labor are taken from us? Why should we not do as we please, forsaking our labors, when the Great Equalizer will care for our wants and educate our children? Let us then pursue the course of leisure and pleasure."
Now the country in which this parable took place was called the United States of America, and the being called the Great Equalizer was the Federal Government.
And, the people grew lazy and dependent upon the Great Equalizer, and the Great Equalizer lost his power to sustain the people . . . and they disappeared from the face of the earth.
One of these men labored from early to late to plant and tend his crops, care for his livestock, improve his buildings, and repair his machinery. His wife took part-time employment in the nearby town to supplement the family income and provide for the education of their children.
The other man preferred to rise at his convenience, spent many of his days in a nearby town playing cards, talking on the street corners, or relaxing in an air conditioned bar. His crops seeded later than his neighbors -- were infested with weeds, he had no livestock, for they were too much work, his buildings were in too poor repair to keep them. His wife joined him in town -- or went her own way -- letting her housework slide -- and neglecting her children.
By virtue of his effort, enterprise, and initiative, the first man harvested a good crop. His livestock and their products brought top prices, and his farmstead had a neat, orderly appearance.
Because of his indolence and carelessness, the second man harvested little crop, and his buildings deteriorated.
Then, along came the Great Equalizer.
He looked upon the second man and said, "Your children are undernourished and underclothed! I will provide you with sustenance for yourself and for them.
"You are poverty stricken because you have little income! I will give you more money.
"Your house is in poor condition! I will build you a new one."
He looked upon the first man and said, "You have more income than you are required to provide your family with the necessities! I will take the remainder away from you.
"Your land and buildings and machinery are of great value. I will exact payment in relation to their value.
"Your production has created surpluses! Next year, I will restrict the acreage you may plant.
"I shall take much of what you have and give it to your neighbor who is less fortunate than you."
Other neighbors heard what the Great Equalizer had to say, and they reasoned thus: "Why should we labor when the returns of our labor are taken from us? Why should we not do as we please, forsaking our labors, when the Great Equalizer will care for our wants and educate our children? Let us then pursue the course of leisure and pleasure."
Now the country in which this parable took place was called the United States of America, and the being called the Great Equalizer was the Federal Government.
And, the people grew lazy and dependent upon the Great Equalizer, and the Great Equalizer lost his power to sustain the people . . . and they disappeared from the face of the earth.
Forkbender
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
- Inscrit
- 23/11/05
- Messages
- 11 366
Even if we all agree that it is wrong, it doesn't mean that it is. You claim that something can be wrong regardless of opinions. That means that it is wrong objectively (am I wrong here?). So prove it. Right/wrong is a subjective or intersubjective distinction in my view. Me saying that murder/rape is wrong still doesn't mean that this is objectively so. Me generally agreeing with a lot of basic moral judgments doesn't mean that it is not an opinion of sorts. It might be wrong in the view of humanity as a whole, but that still doesn't mean that it is. We can agree on every little moral issue and still differ on the view if what is right is objectively right or (inter)subjectively right.GOD a dit:
Right/wrong are concepts, just like 'soul'. These concepts are linked to basic emotions of love/empathy on the one hand and hate/fear on the other. They are no hard facts. If you think they are you could prove it without subjective words like 'honesty', 'intelligence', 'stupid semantic games', 'philosophical shit','confused'.
I like the words 'rubber answer', btw, never heard of the phrase before, but it has a nice ring to it.
Forkbender
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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- 23/11/05
- Messages
- 11 366
@EllisDee:
It is a nice story, but not more than that. It doesn't take into account the exploitation that is part of every form of capitalism. Besides that it tries to reduce everything to two parties involved, simplifying it and making it harsher. I wouldn't be surprised if this story originated in McCarthyism.
It is a nice story, but not more than that. It doesn't take into account the exploitation that is part of every form of capitalism. Besides that it tries to reduce everything to two parties involved, simplifying it and making it harsher. I wouldn't be surprised if this story originated in McCarthyism.
It is a GROSS oversimplification....Ellis, you have that conservative knack for over-complicating simple issues and over-simplifying the complex ones.
You still manage to insult people with your 'general' metaphorical story.
Not everyone who 'works hard, and tends his fields' is successful in the way you imply.....if this were the case there would not be so much government subsidies for so many farmers. Your story is two-dimensional, and sophomoric, at best.
I tell you again, you first have to get it through your head that worshipping a dollar is what got us in this mess.....only then can you begin to think about alternatives. I'm not really all for socialism, either...but you have a mental stumbling block in your worldview, one that hallucinogens have unfortunately not helped you with.....competition has its limits, pertaining to what is 'good' for us, as a people, and as a race.
You should understand that 'capitalism' is just a non-offensive label which serves as a substitute for 'the love of money'....your bible says that the 'love of money is the root of all evil'.
Thinking that the market will 'fix everything' if just allowed to run unchecked, is proof, to me, that you think about this in a very conditioned, un-psychedelic way.
....rampant capitalism is the problem, not the solution, man.
In your little simple story above, you also manage to insult millions of people by implying that anyone who needs a little help is a lazy drunk with no redeeming qualities.....
I ask you again;
Are you Bill O'Reilly?
:?:
You still manage to insult people with your 'general' metaphorical story.
Not everyone who 'works hard, and tends his fields' is successful in the way you imply.....if this were the case there would not be so much government subsidies for so many farmers. Your story is two-dimensional, and sophomoric, at best.
I tell you again, you first have to get it through your head that worshipping a dollar is what got us in this mess.....only then can you begin to think about alternatives. I'm not really all for socialism, either...but you have a mental stumbling block in your worldview, one that hallucinogens have unfortunately not helped you with.....competition has its limits, pertaining to what is 'good' for us, as a people, and as a race.
You should understand that 'capitalism' is just a non-offensive label which serves as a substitute for 'the love of money'....your bible says that the 'love of money is the root of all evil'.
Thinking that the market will 'fix everything' if just allowed to run unchecked, is proof, to me, that you think about this in a very conditioned, un-psychedelic way.
....rampant capitalism is the problem, not the solution, man.
In your little simple story above, you also manage to insult millions of people by implying that anyone who needs a little help is a lazy drunk with no redeeming qualities.....
I ask you again;
Are you Bill O'Reilly?
:?:
GOD
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
- Inscrit
- 14/1/06
- Messages
- 14 944
Fork youve played these silly ego games at least 3 times now . With the words facts , reality and now with right and wrong .
Kill someone and go to court and say i killed him but i dont think its wrong so i`m not guilty . Then say there were no witnesses = no one to say/think it was wrong so i`m not guilty . You would be found guilty and probably land in a psychiatric prison .
Those things are what they are if we are there or not . We give them names , but the fact that we give them names or do or dont use those names doesnt mean that they dont exist .
People say its a fact , reality that the earth moves round the sun . The way you are talking implys that those words are human concepts = if we werent watching it isnt a fact and isnt reality . Just like a child we covers his eyes and thinks no one can see him .
All your talking about is ego , playing god and putting humans at the center of the universe .
There are facts , reality and right and wrong even if humanity didnt exist . Its called universal facts and reality .
Rubber words comes from german = gummi worte . = bending things for your own personal good , getting out of a situation by twisting things . Its why some parts of philosophy are laughed at and not taken seriously . Because they wriggle and squirm playing word games and arguing about things using semantic tricks like clever dicks chasing their own tails . Back to the kick in the balls . You can argue forever about how much it hurts , who gives a fuck ? IT HURTS .
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=92vV3QGag ... re=related
My last post on the subject .
Kill someone and go to court and say i killed him but i dont think its wrong so i`m not guilty . Then say there were no witnesses = no one to say/think it was wrong so i`m not guilty . You would be found guilty and probably land in a psychiatric prison .
Those things are what they are if we are there or not . We give them names , but the fact that we give them names or do or dont use those names doesnt mean that they dont exist .
People say its a fact , reality that the earth moves round the sun . The way you are talking implys that those words are human concepts = if we werent watching it isnt a fact and isnt reality . Just like a child we covers his eyes and thinks no one can see him .
All your talking about is ego , playing god and putting humans at the center of the universe .
There are facts , reality and right and wrong even if humanity didnt exist . Its called universal facts and reality .
Rubber words comes from german = gummi worte . = bending things for your own personal good , getting out of a situation by twisting things . Its why some parts of philosophy are laughed at and not taken seriously . Because they wriggle and squirm playing word games and arguing about things using semantic tricks like clever dicks chasing their own tails . Back to the kick in the balls . You can argue forever about how much it hurts , who gives a fuck ? IT HURTS .
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=92vV3QGag ... re=related
My last post on the subject .
At some point, we will all always come to a decision for ourselves personally on such things as 'right' and 'wrong'.....true, they are abstractions, but they aren't abstract as pertains to the individual....they are real.
No matter how much the intellect may strive to realize the absurdity of placing such limiting labels as 'right' and 'wrong' on attitudes and experiences, we still ALL do it, to whatever degree, even if it is only to think to ourselves
' What _______ thinks about _____ isn't right, I'm going to seek to 'correct' his thinking.'
Intellectually, some of us may realize that abstractions are abstractions, but NONE of us are immune to using them this way, because the human animal is only partly guided by the intellect. Most of us are controlled by instinctive emotions, that wear the clothes of the intellect.
It is not realistic to expect peopole to be able to disconnect fully from the all-too-human enterprise of labeling and classifying.
What is realistic is ro expect one to see when obvious harm is being done by a certain mentality and strive for change based on ideals that are beneficial for all.
Having inequality assures a dominance/subjugation relationship and it's not a good thing.
Having empathy for the plight of those less fortunate is something that is in short supply ( do you hear me, ellis?) and something the world could do with a lot more of.
Conservatives, as the thought process is practiced these days ( I say that because what you guys do these days isn't truly 'conservative' vis-a-vis the principles of the constitution.....it is conservative towards any kind of chamge)
are REALLY lacking in decency, compassion, and goodness.
They are greedy, evil people who cannot see the error of their ways, even though the evidence is all around them.
Word!
No matter how much the intellect may strive to realize the absurdity of placing such limiting labels as 'right' and 'wrong' on attitudes and experiences, we still ALL do it, to whatever degree, even if it is only to think to ourselves
' What _______ thinks about _____ isn't right, I'm going to seek to 'correct' his thinking.'
Intellectually, some of us may realize that abstractions are abstractions, but NONE of us are immune to using them this way, because the human animal is only partly guided by the intellect. Most of us are controlled by instinctive emotions, that wear the clothes of the intellect.
It is not realistic to expect peopole to be able to disconnect fully from the all-too-human enterprise of labeling and classifying.
What is realistic is ro expect one to see when obvious harm is being done by a certain mentality and strive for change based on ideals that are beneficial for all.
Having inequality assures a dominance/subjugation relationship and it's not a good thing.
Having empathy for the plight of those less fortunate is something that is in short supply ( do you hear me, ellis?) and something the world could do with a lot more of.
Conservatives, as the thought process is practiced these days ( I say that because what you guys do these days isn't truly 'conservative' vis-a-vis the principles of the constitution.....it is conservative towards any kind of chamge)
are REALLY lacking in decency, compassion, and goodness.
They are greedy, evil people who cannot see the error of their ways, even though the evidence is all around them.
Word!
GOD a dit:
Really, because I think it is far more difficult to accept that there are no hard and fast rules for right and wrong, and that you have to think for yourself in every case rather than rely on some code of morals. It is self-empowering and gratifying to feel that one is right, especially if you can find enough people who agree with you. It's why conservatives have such a hard time grasping ambiguities in the world, they want everything laid out in simple black and white. Being in the right is all about ego... hence we can say this board has lots of ego stroking haha
To be fair though, I do hate it personally when moral relativism is taken to its extreme. For example, "it is ok when a despotic regime tramples on the rights of its citizens.. because their culture has a different concept of human rights than we do"
Yes, but those examples are very easy to understand.....
When are we going to begin holding corporations to the same codes and standard that we strive to apply to individuals?
I, for one, am SICK of seeing these greed-machines being given a free pass to fuck everything up a little more every day.
When are we going to begin holding corporations to the same codes and standard that we strive to apply to individuals?
I, for one, am SICK of seeing these greed-machines being given a free pass to fuck everything up a little more every day.
spice a dit:
The real irony here is that those who should be able to be held responsible for their actions were protected by the government as soon as corporations were given the legal status of "individuals."
Free market my ass.
Ah, but who is to determine what is ' in agreement with nature'?
Neo-cons and Republicans could rationalize that a dominance heirarchy is' in accordance with nature'.....they could interpret that as meaning that it's okay to eat you, or me....after all....that's 'in accordance with nature'.
My point is that those words leave too much to interpretation.
They've been allowed enough leeway already.
When an individual behaves in a negative fashion, he is said to have a 'nasty habit'.....
When corporations and governments do it, it's 'tradition'.
This cowardly double-standard is at the heart of them not being held accountable......
People have to get off of their knees, and choose real freedom, real life.
It's never going to come at the hands of a corporation, or a government which fellates corporations.
It's just not.
Neo-cons and Republicans could rationalize that a dominance heirarchy is' in accordance with nature'.....they could interpret that as meaning that it's okay to eat you, or me....after all....that's 'in accordance with nature'.
My point is that those words leave too much to interpretation.
They've been allowed enough leeway already.
When an individual behaves in a negative fashion, he is said to have a 'nasty habit'.....
When corporations and governments do it, it's 'tradition'.
This cowardly double-standard is at the heart of them not being held accountable......
People have to get off of their knees, and choose real freedom, real life.
It's never going to come at the hands of a corporation, or a government which fellates corporations.
It's just not.
GOD
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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- 14/1/06
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- 14 944
Oknayd thanks for the quote . Humans can think for themselves what is right or wrong but that doesnt mean that they are right or wrong . I do notice that people are comming with theorys....... their personal opinions........ and not answering my questions .
So . Back to the US ........ Heres a letter from guess who ?????
Friends,
Let me cut to the chase. The biggest robbery in the history of this country is taking place as you read this. Though no guns
are being used, 300 million hostages are being taken. Make no mistake about it: After stealing a half trillion dollars to
line the pockets of their war-profiteering backers for the past five years, after lining the pockets of their fellow oilmen
to the tune of over a hundred billion dollars in just the last two years, Bush and his cronies -- who must soon vacate the
White House -- are looting the U.S. Treasury of every dollar they can grab. They are swiping as much of the silverware as
they can on their way out the door.
No matter what they say, no matter how many scare words they use, they are up to their old tricks of creating fear and
confusion in order to make and keep themselves and the upper one percent filthy rich. Just read the first four paragraphs of
the lead story in last Monday's New York Times and you can see what the real deal is:
"Even as policy makers worked on details of a $700 billion bailout of the financial industry, Wall Street began looking
for ways to profit from it.
"Financial firms were lobbying to have all manner of troubled investments covered, not just those related to mortgages.
"At the same time, investment firms were jockeying to oversee all the assets that Treasury plans to take off the books of
financial institutions, a role that could earn them hundreds of millions of dollars a year in fees.
"Nobody wants to be left out of Treasury's proposal to buy up bad assets of financial institutions."
Unbelievable. Wall Street and its backers created this mess and now they are going to clean up like bandits. Even Rudy
Giuliani is lobbying for his firm to be hired (and paid) to "consult" in the bailout.
The problem is, nobody truly knows what this "collapse" is all about. Even Treasury Secretary Paulson admitted he doesn't
know the exact amount that is needed (he just picked the $700 billion number out of his head!). The head of the congressional
budget office said he can't figure it out nor can he explain it to anyone.
And yet, they are screeching about how the end is near! Panic! Recession! The Great Depression! Y2K! Bird flu! Killer bees!
We must pass the bailout bill today!! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Falling for whom? NOTHING in this "bailout" package will lower the price of the gas you have to put in your car to get to
work. NOTHING in this bill will protect you from losing your home. NOTHING in this bill will give you health insurance.
Health insurance? Mike, why are you bringing this up? What's this got to do with the Wall Street collapse?
It has everything to do with it. This so-called "collapse" was triggered by the massive defaulting and foreclosures going on
with people's home mortgages. Do you know why so many Americans are losing their homes? To hear the Republicans describe it,
it's because too many working class idiots were given mortgages that they really couldn't afford. Here's the truth: The
number one cause of people declaring bankruptcy is because of medical bills. Let me state this simply: If we had had
universal health coverage, this mortgage "crisis" may never have happened.
This bailout's mission is to protect the obscene amount of wealth that has been accumulated in the last eight years. It's to
protect the top shareholders who own and control corporate America. It's to make sure their yachts and mansions and "way of
life" go uninterrupted while the rest of America suffers and struggles to pay the bills. Let the rich suffer for once. Let
them pay for the bailout. We are spending 400 million dollars a day on the war in Iraq. Let them end the war immediately and
save us all another half-trillion dollars!
I have to stop writing this and you have to stop reading it. They are staging a financial coup this morning in our country.
They are hoping Congress will act fast before they stop to think, before we have a chance to stop them ourselves. So stop
reading this and do something -- NOW! Here's what you can do immediately:
1. Call or e-mail Senator Obama. Tell him he does not need to be sitting there trying to help prop up Bush and Cheney and the
mess they've made. Tell him we know he has the smarts to slow this thing down and figure out what's the best route to take.
Tell him the rich have to pay for whatever help is offered. Use the leverage we have now to insist on a moratorium on home
foreclosures, to insist on a move to universal health coverage, and tell him that we the people need to be in charge of the
economic decisions that affect our lives, not the barons of Wall Street.
2. Take to the streets. Participate in one of the hundreds of quickly-called demonstrations that are taking place all over
the country (especially those near Wall Street and DC).
3. Call your Representative in Congress and your Senators. Tell them what you told Senator Obama.
When you screw up in life, there is hell to pay. Each and every one of you reading this knows that basic lesson and has paid
the consequences of your actions at some point. In this great democracy, we cannot let there be one set of rules for the vast
majority of hard-working citizens, and another set of rules for the elite, who, when they screw up, are handed one more gift
on a silver platter. No more! Not again!
Yours,
Michael Moore
[email protected]
MichaelMoore.com
P.S. Having read further the details of this bailout bill, you need to know you are being lied to. They talk about how they
will prevent golden parachutes. It says NOTHING about what these executives and fat cats will make in SALARY. According to
Rep. Brad Sherman of California, these top managers will continue to receive million-dollar-a-month paychecks under this new
bill. There is no direct ownership given to the American people for the money being handed over. Foreign banks and investors
will be allowed to receive billion-dollar handouts. A large chunk of this $700 billion is going to be given directly to
Chinese and Middle Eastern banks. There is NO guarantee of ever seeing that money again.
P.P.S. From talking to people I know in DC, they say the reason so many Dems are behind this is because Wall Street this
weekend put a gun to their heads and said either turn over the $700 billion or the first thing we'll start blowing up are the
pension funds and 401(k)s of your middle class constituents. The Dems are scared they may make good on their threat. But this
is not the time to back down or act like the typical Democrat we have witnessed for the last eight years. The Dems handed a
stolen election over to Bush. The Dems gave Bush the votes he needed to invade a sovereign country. Once they took over
Congress in 2007, they refused to pull the plug on the war. And now they have been cowered into being accomplices in the
crime of the century. You have to call them now and say "NO!" If we let them do this, just imagine how hard it will be to get
anything good done when President Obama is in the White House. THESE DEMOCRATS ARE ONLY AS STRONG AS THE BACKBONE WE GIVE
THEM. CALL CONGRESS NOW.
So . Back to the US ........ Heres a letter from guess who ?????
Friends,
Let me cut to the chase. The biggest robbery in the history of this country is taking place as you read this. Though no guns
are being used, 300 million hostages are being taken. Make no mistake about it: After stealing a half trillion dollars to
line the pockets of their war-profiteering backers for the past five years, after lining the pockets of their fellow oilmen
to the tune of over a hundred billion dollars in just the last two years, Bush and his cronies -- who must soon vacate the
White House -- are looting the U.S. Treasury of every dollar they can grab. They are swiping as much of the silverware as
they can on their way out the door.
No matter what they say, no matter how many scare words they use, they are up to their old tricks of creating fear and
confusion in order to make and keep themselves and the upper one percent filthy rich. Just read the first four paragraphs of
the lead story in last Monday's New York Times and you can see what the real deal is:
"Even as policy makers worked on details of a $700 billion bailout of the financial industry, Wall Street began looking
for ways to profit from it.
"Financial firms were lobbying to have all manner of troubled investments covered, not just those related to mortgages.
"At the same time, investment firms were jockeying to oversee all the assets that Treasury plans to take off the books of
financial institutions, a role that could earn them hundreds of millions of dollars a year in fees.
"Nobody wants to be left out of Treasury's proposal to buy up bad assets of financial institutions."
Unbelievable. Wall Street and its backers created this mess and now they are going to clean up like bandits. Even Rudy
Giuliani is lobbying for his firm to be hired (and paid) to "consult" in the bailout.
The problem is, nobody truly knows what this "collapse" is all about. Even Treasury Secretary Paulson admitted he doesn't
know the exact amount that is needed (he just picked the $700 billion number out of his head!). The head of the congressional
budget office said he can't figure it out nor can he explain it to anyone.
And yet, they are screeching about how the end is near! Panic! Recession! The Great Depression! Y2K! Bird flu! Killer bees!
We must pass the bailout bill today!! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Falling for whom? NOTHING in this "bailout" package will lower the price of the gas you have to put in your car to get to
work. NOTHING in this bill will protect you from losing your home. NOTHING in this bill will give you health insurance.
Health insurance? Mike, why are you bringing this up? What's this got to do with the Wall Street collapse?
It has everything to do with it. This so-called "collapse" was triggered by the massive defaulting and foreclosures going on
with people's home mortgages. Do you know why so many Americans are losing their homes? To hear the Republicans describe it,
it's because too many working class idiots were given mortgages that they really couldn't afford. Here's the truth: The
number one cause of people declaring bankruptcy is because of medical bills. Let me state this simply: If we had had
universal health coverage, this mortgage "crisis" may never have happened.
This bailout's mission is to protect the obscene amount of wealth that has been accumulated in the last eight years. It's to
protect the top shareholders who own and control corporate America. It's to make sure their yachts and mansions and "way of
life" go uninterrupted while the rest of America suffers and struggles to pay the bills. Let the rich suffer for once. Let
them pay for the bailout. We are spending 400 million dollars a day on the war in Iraq. Let them end the war immediately and
save us all another half-trillion dollars!
I have to stop writing this and you have to stop reading it. They are staging a financial coup this morning in our country.
They are hoping Congress will act fast before they stop to think, before we have a chance to stop them ourselves. So stop
reading this and do something -- NOW! Here's what you can do immediately:
1. Call or e-mail Senator Obama. Tell him he does not need to be sitting there trying to help prop up Bush and Cheney and the
mess they've made. Tell him we know he has the smarts to slow this thing down and figure out what's the best route to take.
Tell him the rich have to pay for whatever help is offered. Use the leverage we have now to insist on a moratorium on home
foreclosures, to insist on a move to universal health coverage, and tell him that we the people need to be in charge of the
economic decisions that affect our lives, not the barons of Wall Street.
2. Take to the streets. Participate in one of the hundreds of quickly-called demonstrations that are taking place all over
the country (especially those near Wall Street and DC).
3. Call your Representative in Congress and your Senators. Tell them what you told Senator Obama.
When you screw up in life, there is hell to pay. Each and every one of you reading this knows that basic lesson and has paid
the consequences of your actions at some point. In this great democracy, we cannot let there be one set of rules for the vast
majority of hard-working citizens, and another set of rules for the elite, who, when they screw up, are handed one more gift
on a silver platter. No more! Not again!
Yours,
Michael Moore
[email protected]
MichaelMoore.com
P.S. Having read further the details of this bailout bill, you need to know you are being lied to. They talk about how they
will prevent golden parachutes. It says NOTHING about what these executives and fat cats will make in SALARY. According to
Rep. Brad Sherman of California, these top managers will continue to receive million-dollar-a-month paychecks under this new
bill. There is no direct ownership given to the American people for the money being handed over. Foreign banks and investors
will be allowed to receive billion-dollar handouts. A large chunk of this $700 billion is going to be given directly to
Chinese and Middle Eastern banks. There is NO guarantee of ever seeing that money again.
P.P.S. From talking to people I know in DC, they say the reason so many Dems are behind this is because Wall Street this
weekend put a gun to their heads and said either turn over the $700 billion or the first thing we'll start blowing up are the
pension funds and 401(k)s of your middle class constituents. The Dems are scared they may make good on their threat. But this
is not the time to back down or act like the typical Democrat we have witnessed for the last eight years. The Dems handed a
stolen election over to Bush. The Dems gave Bush the votes he needed to invade a sovereign country. Once they took over
Congress in 2007, they refused to pull the plug on the war. And now they have been cowered into being accomplices in the
crime of the century. You have to call them now and say "NO!" If we let them do this, just imagine how hard it will be to get
anything good done when President Obama is in the White House. THESE DEMOCRATS ARE ONLY AS STRONG AS THE BACKBONE WE GIVE
THEM. CALL CONGRESS NOW.
G
Guest
Guest
Berkely and now Michael Moore. Talk about propaganda!
And poor Spice doesn't have a brain. No objectivity, and no analytical capacity. perhaps a handout is in order?
And poor Spice doesn't have a brain. No objectivity, and no analytical capacity. perhaps a handout is in order?
- Statut
