Some discussion about American foreign policy...

[restin]

If someone says, let's teach the evolution theory and creationism equally at school, will you say, "well, I can't say if I am right you may be not wrong, so let's teach both", or what? I agree, that philosophically, there are no good or evil out of moral boundaries, like there are no right and wrong. But in a political situation, we can argue like that. It is situationary but it exists.

 

[GOD]

Creationism as it is explained by the ultra right fundaMENTAList pseudo religeous christian church is wrong . Darwinism/ evolutionary theory isnt 100% right but its more right than wrong .

Lets cut this shit about impüosible ultimate definitions about right or wrong . Ellis is wrong in what he says . End .

 

[restin]

Creationism as it is explained by the ultra right fundaMENTAList pseudo religeous christian church is wrong . Darwinism/ evolutionary theory isnt 100% right but its more right than wrong .

I didn't say it wasn't wrong...if you mean that - re-read, if not - ignore :wink:

 

[GOD]

Ignore........

 

[gammagoblin]

Creationism as it is explained by the ultra right fundaMENTAList pseudo religeous christian church is wrong . Darwinism/ evolutionary theory isnt 100% right but its more right than wrong .

Lets cut this shit about impüosible ultimate definitions about right or wrong . Ellis is wrong in what he says . End .

pfew you really look like the judging God christianity wants you to believe in.

 

[GOD]

Hey wow !!! You made a desision......are you god ?

So tell me whats right about creationism and whats wrong ?

 

[gammagoblin]

So tell me whats right about creationism and whats wrong ?

I ment your last sentence, because you decided, if something is right or wrong, and it sounded unquestionable, but who are you to say that?

Someone else can have his opinion right?

perfect example of the meaningless of duality btw, for what's wrong for you is right for someone else.
"but his opinion's noth elping this earth" that might be true, but I don't think you'll convince someone when you talk to him like he's some inferior person. but isn't that obvious? Because ultimately you're talking to yourself.

 

[GOD]

What a cofused answer .

I didnt ultimately decide if its right or wrong it from it self is wrong , i just said the fact that its wrong .

Opinions are opinions facts are facts . Is murdering someone right or wrong ? Its wrong and only loonys and maniacs would dispute that . Just because someone thinks its not wrong doesnt make it not wrong . You and fork are trying to aple absolutes to the rightness or wrongness of somethings . To all of them at once . Split it up into individual questions or examples and ask me and yourself whats right or wrong . Killing the planet is wrong . So is raceismand sexism . So is slavery and exploitation . Be specific .

 

[restin]

Someone else can have his opinion right?

Then you WOULD teach creationism, aight?


And then why is everyone judging the media when they talk about drugs? it is a matter of OPINION if cannabis is dangerous or not. So it is the OPINION of the government to keep it illegal, why are you against it then? It is perfectly OK.

 

[GOD]

Cannabis isnt bad . Some aspects/ consequencys of its use are good and some are bad , others are a matter of personal opinion .

The governments havent made an opinion about cannabis use , they havent honestly thought about it after being properly informed . They do what they are told by their leaders , and they are backing vested interests = they are being paid by the pharma industry and / or others , or doing what pseudo religeous "church" leaders tell them to .

 

[restin]

that's what I mean

 

[Forkbender]

The most people want desisions made that benefit the planet . So its decided what is a better or worse solution / desision . World hunger / poverty or not . Thats a desision about good and bad . Thats what life is about , evolution , change , growing , emancipüating ourselves from the ways of thinking that caused problems in the past . The only choice is democracy / group concensus . Not dictaing . The way you talk sounds like the lowest common denominator , being brought down in a downwards spiral of ignorance and fear . Exactly whats fucked the planet . Running away from responsibility .

Is murder good or bad ? If you answer that question you destroy your whole argument . If you dont you r ????

Yeah, democracy works like a charm. We have had democracy for how long now? 2 centuries? And what have we done? Continued to exploit the poor, continued to pollute the environment so that everyone can have a car. And misused every single technological development to exploit others and the earth. I don't think people want what's best for the planet. Most people want what is best for themselves in the short term. Group consensus hasn't helped us one bit as it never existed.

What I meant with my previous statement is that the right and wrong that divide all actions are always those of a certain group and that right and wrong differ from group to group. Plus everybody thinks he's right, so what's the point of defining right and wrong? Suppose Germany had won WWII, what would have been right in that world and what would have been wrong? Therefore I asked whose right was meant, and whose wrong, as I don't believe in universal values and codes of conduct. I do believe in personal ethics, so your question is answered:

"Is murder good or bad?"

I have made my decision & I will not dictate my decision to others.

 

[Forkbender]

You and fork are trying to aple absolutes to the rightness or wrongness of somethings . To all of them at once . Split it up into individual questions or examples and ask me and yourself whats right or wrong . Killing the planet is wrong . So is raceismand sexism . So is slavery and exploitation . Be specific .

I asked a question, I didn't say anything about right or wrong being absolute, because I don't believe in that. I agree with a personal ethics that can be cultivated by looking at specific situations and thinking for yourself.

[e]I asked this question precisely because I don't believe in absolutes and restin claimed that we have learned from history that there is right and wrong.

 

[Forkbender]

Did Somebody Say Socialism?

 

[GOD]

" Group consensus hasn't helped us one bit as it never existed. "

Exactly . To know what that is one would have to have democracy and weve never had that . Plus a fair education system and press , also 2 things that have never existed .

"The right and wrong that divide all actions"

Exactly . ALL actions . Only a fool would aply right or wrong to all actions . But that doesnt mean that some of them are not right or wrong . With some things right or wrong is a matter of opinion but not by all things .

"Plus everybody thinks he's right,"

Wow! Isnt that a contradiction . You go for an absolute truth in a situation thats everybodys personal opinion ...... and your opinion . Not everybody thinks he is right . Some people knowingly do what they think to be wrong for personal reasons .

"so what's the point of defining right and wrong?"

PARDON !!!!! You started talking about right / wrong desisions as imposible to define ultimate truths . Nobody else was . Every situation or case is either right , wrong or a matter of personal opinion . Some things are right and some are wrong indipendant of opinion .

The example of germany . They thought , or pretended to think murdering the jews was right . It doesnt matter if they won or lost the war . It was wrong . Right or wrong cant be dictated by law .

"I have made my decision & I will not dictate my decision to others."

It wasnt your decision to make if its right or wrong . You cant dictate if its right or wrong , you can try , but it still stays wrong even if you force people to say that its right or wrong . It`s your desision to decide what you want to believe and that has no effect on if its right or wrong .

But what a statement you made . You know murder is wrong and you know if you say that you loose the argument you started so you give a rubber answer . If we didnt have a right or wrong in certain situations it would destroy the whole legal system . You would be saying its a personal desision if fucking kids or rape or murder is wrong and i`m not going to do anything about it if it happens . Society would colapse . You dont want that . You dont decide if those things are right or wrong they are what they are = wrong .

 

[Forkbender]

"The right and wrong that divide all actions"

Exactly . ALL actions . Only a fool would aply right or wrong to all actions . But that doesnt mean that some of them are not right or wrong . With some things right or wrong is a matter of opinion but not by all things .

How can you be sure?

"Plus everybody thinks he's right,"

Wow! Isnt that a contradiction . You go for an absolute truth in a situation thats everybodys personal opinion ...... and your opinion . Not everybody thinks he is right . Some people knowingly do what they think to be wrong for personal reasons .

But they still think they do the thing that needs to be done. They still think what they believe to be 'right' is truly 'right', that their idea of what is good is also true. It is probably a generalization on my part, but your last sentence doesn't refute my statement.

"so what's the point of defining right and wrong?"

PARDON !!!!! You started talking about right / wrong desisions as imposible to define ultimate truths . Nobody else was . Every situation or case is either right , wrong or a matter of personal opinion . Some things are right and some are wrong indipendant of opinion .

Please read my posts again. You are putting words in my mouth.
Your last sentence is defining ultimate truths. So you are doing it yourself.

"I have made my decision & I will not dictate my decision to others."

It wasnt your decision to make if its right or wrong . You cant dictate if its right or wrong , you can try , but it still stays wrong even if you force people to say that its right or wrong . It`s your desision to decide what you want to believe and that has no effect on if its right or wrong .

My decision is about my actions, not about whether it is right or wrong. I expected you to be more practically minded than this.

But what a statement you made . You know murder is wrong and you know if you say that you loose the argument you started so you give a rubber answer . If we didnt have a right or wrong in certain situations it would destroy the whole legal system . You would be saying its a personal desision if fucking kids or rape or murder is wrong and i`m not going to do anything about it if it happens . Society would colapse . You dont want that . You dont decide if those things are right or wrong they are what they are = wrong .

What argument? I'm still trying to explain my point and you keep misinterpreting. Historically, being 'right' always resulted in violence. That's why I have my doubts about attributing a moral judgment to a certain action. Some of the longer lasting moral judgments (i.e. murder being 'wrong') have a stronger foothold, but that doesn't mean a thing.
By the way, even murder is an abstraction. There are always (at least) two persons involved. And these persons might have motives. What if the attempt to murder Hitler in 1943 had succeeded and 3 million jews were saved? Would it have been 'wrong'? Or 'right'? There are only specific real life situations that can be judged. But it is still a judgment.

Why are certain actions wrong? Why are certain actions right? What is the basis of this? They are wrong because they are wrong doesn't answer my questions.

 

[gammagoblin]

Someone else can have his opinion right?

Then you WOULD teach creationism, aight?


And then why is everyone judging the media when they talk about drugs? it is a matter of OPINION if cannabis is dangerous or not. So it is the OPINION of the government to keep it illegal, why are you against it then? It is perfectly OK.

Well, it might be an opinion whether cannabis is dangerious, but it is a fact that it causes relatively low harm, especially compared to alcohol for example. And that's where I think the difference lies.

I didnt ultimately decide if its right or wrong it from it self is wrong , i just said the fact that its wrong .

Please pay a little more attention because you did and you just did it again.

Is murdering someone right or wrong ?

Well I would say that murdering is horrible, but like fork said, things could turn out better when a certain person get's killed then when he stay's alive. And in a lot of other situations only a lot of people suffer from it. It still show's there's no point in judging.

 

[GOD]

"How can you be sure?"

Its called honesty and intelligence . Stop talking philosophical shit and playing stupid semantic games . Tell me a situation where it is not wrong , where it would be right or not just an opinion if its right or wrong that rapeing a kid in the arse isnt wrong . Sorry for the bad sentance construction but you know what i mean .

"You are putting words in my mouth. "

Are you jokeing or just confused ? You started talking philosophical shit about right or wrong and playing semantic word games .

"My decision is about my actions, not about whether it is right or wrong. I expected you to be more practically minded than this. "

And i expected you to be more honest about it . Your squirming like a bag full of snakes . I asked you if murder was right or wrong and you played a stupid game and started talking about your opinions . Now your making excuses and talking about your actions . Back to the question again . Is murder right or wrong or is it a mater of your personal opinion ? You know murder is wrong and you know if you say that you loose the argument you started so you give a rubber answer .

" Historically, being 'right' always resulted in violence."

JFC you are confused . Thats your personal opinion and its a generalisation . Whos being absolute aboute things now . Your whole argument is that there are no absolutes .

I was going to use the example of hitler . Murdering him would have been wrong . It might have been better for humanity in the long run , but thats an opinion . You dont know what would have happened if someone had murdered him . I would have murdered him , but it would still have been murder .

So , again , back to my question . "Tell me a situation where it is not wrong , where it would be right or not just an opinion if its right or wrong that rapeing a kid in the arse isnt wrong " . If you say its a mater of opinion or no you are a pervert and condone lawlesness . If you say yes you loose the argument you started .

What you are saying is that the fact of if there is a witness makes something right or wrong .

And using dumb tactics , asking irelevant questions and avoiding answering my questions doesnt get you out of the hole you dug for yourself .

 

[gammagoblin]

"Tell me a situation where it is not wrong , where it would be right or not just an opinion if its right or wrong that rapeing a kid in the arse isnt wrong "

When you're the head of the psycho who's doing it it probably isn't wrong.

Now you'll probably say this is an opinion, but calling it wrong is the exact same thing.

call me pervert if you please

 

[GOD]

Pervert .