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Some discussion about American foreign policy...

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I did. You missed it. Read back if you're genuinely interested.

So far, I believe I'm the only one who hasn't resorted to name-calling. (except perhaps Forkbender)That's not why I'm here. Why are you here?

FB--why are all the jobs leaving the USA?
 
"Read back if you're genuinely interested. "










As said before you twist things and dont answer questions . You keep talking confused ultra right wing crap about liberals and socialists and other things you dont understand and havent thought about the concequencys of . You squirm like a bag of snakes full of wet shit .
 
Because I want to be.


Your 'defense' of your positions are weak, to put it mildly.

As to the name-calling, 'if the shoe fits'.....


You cannot defend your positions adequately. You've already over-extended yourself, and the more you say, the deeper you sink.

You say you are remarkably free of ego?

Claiming dominion over the earth refutes that, and nicely.

You belong in a museum.




:idea:
 
I am sorry you can't/won't understand my position. I don't have any more time to go back and debate the stuff that I already assumed you knew. I have to help others. :wink:

(see my sig line for more details....)
Have a nice trip, guys!
 
" I have to help others."

How ? Kill the planet ? Destroy american peoples jobs ? Not answer questions ? Talk endles confused , bigoted , hypocritical , contradictry crap ?

Your signature fits exactly to you .
 
I think it's the acid-free paper that's caused this in you. :lol:
 
Yes . What you have said is very "Simple" .
 
EllisDee a dit:
the Earth serves me, not the other way around.

You've written several questionable things but this particular statement says a lot about you... more than you probably think. I think I've lost my faith in you.

:?
 
EllisDee a dit:
FB--why are all the jobs leaving the USA?

Because the US is a very small exporter compared to what they import (both materially and monetarily)? Because big business buys third world governments to look the other way when they underpay their people? Because protectionism in the 20th century caused a wide gap between rich and poor countries? Because western states exploited resource-rich third world countries for centuries by paying the bare minimum and making lots of money over the backs of poor people? Because rich people feel they are better than other people and don't care about their needs?

There are too many reasons for this. In the Netherlands for example we have a lot of unions and the unemployment rate is the lowest in decades. Unions don't equate outsourcing/unemployment. Healthy business needs healthy consumers, something american outsourcers don't fully understand.
 
EllisDee,

You are unaware of what is going on in this country and you need some introspection.

EDIT:
Wednesday, September 24, 2008

Dear Friends,

Whenever a Great Bipartisan Consensus is announced, and a compliant media assures everyone that the wondrous actions of our wise leaders are being taken for our own good, you can know with absolute certainty that disaster is about to strike.

The events of the past week are no exception.

The bailout package that is about to be rammed down Congress' throat is not just economically foolish. It is downright sinister. It makes a mockery of our Constitution, which our leaders should never again bother pretending is still in effect. It promises the American people a never-ending nightmare of ever-greater debt liabilities they will have to shoulder. Two weeks ago, financial analyst Jim Rogers said the bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac made America more communist than China! "This is welfare for the rich," he said. "This is socialism for the rich. It's bailing out the financiers, the banks, the Wall Streeters."

That describes the current bailout package to a T. And we're being told it's unavoidable.

The claim that the market caused all this is so staggeringly foolish that only politicians and the media could pretend to believe it. But that has become the conventional wisdom, with the desired result that those responsible for the credit bubble and its predictable consequences - predictable, that is, to those who understand sound, Austrian economics - are being let off the hook. The Federal Reserve System is actually positioning itself as the savior, rather than the culprit, in this mess!

• The Treasury Secretary is authorized to purchase up to $700 billion in mortgage-related assets at any one time. That means $700 billion is only the very beginning of what will hit us.

• Financial institutions are "designated as financial agents of the Government." This is the New Deal to end all New Deals.

• Then there's this: "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency." Translation: the Secretary can buy up whatever junk debt he wants to, burden the American people with it, and be subject to no one in the process.

There goes your country.

Even some so-called free-market economists are calling all this "sadly necessary." Sad, yes. Necessary? Don't make me laugh.

Our one-party system is complicit in yet another crime against the American people. The two major party candidates for president themselves initially indicated their strong support for bailouts of this kind - another example of the big choice we're supposedly presented with this November: yes or yes. Now, with a backlash brewing, they're not quite sure what their views are. A sad display, really.

Although the present bailout package is almost certainly not the end of the political atrocities we'll witness in connection with the crisis, time is short. Congress may vote as soon as tomorrow. With a Rasmussen poll finding support for the bailout at an anemic seven percent, some members of Congress are afraid to vote for it. Call them! Let them hear from you! Tell them you will never vote for anyone who supports this atrocity.

The issue boils down to this: do we care about freedom? Do we care about responsibility and accountability? Do we care that our government and media have been bought and paid for? Do we care that average Americans are about to be looted in order to subsidize the fattest of cats on Wall Street and in government? Do we care?

When the chips are down, will we stand up and fight, even if it means standing up against every stripe of fashionable opinion in politics and the media?

Times like these have a way of telling us what kind of a people we are, and what kind of country we shall be.

In liberty,

Ron Paul
 
18 years ago, capitalism laughed over socialism. Now, the most (pseudo-)capitalistic country is near its end. They need to artificially hold up the system. They are in a dept that never existed in whole history of mankind! And they now dare to take 700 billions away! What the hell?? The system doesn't work and only because of the crimes of the banks, is it still here.

The financial crisis is not caused because americans are more evil. It is because of the way of thinking, capitalism forces us to. "everyone is nearest to himself."
 
My position is that of free-enterprise. The bailout? Let 'em fail. Only in that way would 'capitalism' be allowed to take it's course. I see this as a sneaky way for the government to now routinely become involved in the mortgage business, and INSURANCE.

Anybody that gets out of the house once or twice a week knows the the media in this country is responible for a lot of things.
In 1999, the Clinton administration pushed for Fannie mae and Freddie mac to start to make high-risk loans to minorities and illegal aleins. That's right, for the first time in history, you could open a bank account here without a social security card or other previously required proof of information. Well, they got thier loans, it made the banks portfolio's look good (high interest loans being nice to show), and now the house of cards is starting to fall. Pretty simple. I would convert my cash to gold, but that is being manipulated as well. I predict they will change the money. Re-issue bills. You will get less of the 'new money', and it will all be for some great cause. Amero, anyone? The Federal Reserve is made up of the same 4 or 5 families since the 1800's. They are in control of inflation, printing money, etc. The Federal Reserve is a private company. An Aristocracy. I believe they are the ones running this country.

Google 'Zeitgeist', it's a three-part movie on religion, the twin tower bullshit, and the Federal Reserve. I suggest you watch the last 2 parts. Very illuminating.
 
the free market doesn't work. Monopoly, cartells, greedy capitalists. And if the government also plays the game it becomes even more dangerous. The government needs to control the companies. Unfortunately, on a global market this becomes very hard: google etc are world-wide companies and hard to control.
 
Nothing's perfect, but I believe it's the best system there is.

Here they have fireman positions that open up every once in a while. Everybody wants it, so they routinely have 4-500 people applying for 3-4 job openings. That tells me they're paying too much. It's artificially set. Let the free market decide. Of course, if you paid next to nothing, that's what you'd get. A good analogy is when you go to sell your used car. If you want a huge amount of money for it, it sits. If you need money badly for something else, you drop the price and it moves.

That is why America is where she is now. Artificially propping up the economy. Economies have to rise and fall, you can't 'grow' forever.
 
example firemen:

You have a great idea about new cars for firemen. You open a firemen company with 10-15 people in a city. Your idea is a complete breakthrough, you get a lot of money and open stores all over the country. There are other concurring companies but as your idea is better, you buy them off and soon you get the only company CEO all over the US. There are no other firemen. Now, a villa of a rich man is burning and you say that he has to pay you 1 million dollars if he wants you to save his house. He is obliged to do it as no other person is able to save it. So you gain a lot of money and if people, from the "free" market try to open a new company with cheaper service, you strangulate them.

welcome to monopoly.
 
How do you make sure that scenario isn't played out, while preserving free-enterprise?

Because we all know how Russia and East Germany's GNP fared under the other system.
So, some type of hybrid system seems to be in order. It's just that international bankers won't allow the common man to take advantage of it. Too much at stake. The economy has to be incentive-driven. That is the only thing that gets people to work hard, produce, and risk investing.
 
If and only if the government hasn't got any interest in the market. So e.g. in Switzerland monopolies are illegal, so the government intervenes if something like that happens.

But this is very hard to keep.

That's why: fuck the system :wink:
 
Theres never been a free market system and there never will be one without government control . Money and greed rules and takes over .

You talkabout russia and east germany failing . They failed because of coruption , the same reason why america is failing now and because of embargos . The same reason why cuba is having problems . Not because of their system but because of the american embargos .

Yes , a system has to be incentive driven and thats why yours is failing . Because the incentive is only there for the rich and greedy . If the incentive was there for everyone the world would be a better place .
 
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