Science of Global Warming

[HeartCore]

Everybody wants to solve it but almost nobody wants to give up the sick and disempowering lifestyle that caused this whole fuckup in the first place.

Eating meat, driving cars, flying planes....

Last saturday family party... discussion went on about cousin such started to replace lightbulbs for saving bulbs in his entire house

Fifteen minutes later, the moron was commenting on the fact that this year, they doubled their outside christmas lights to compete with the neighbours.

 

[spice]

yes, you all make good points, and I want to address what Heartcore said about everyone wanting to solve it but no one wants to give up the disempowetring lifestyle which created the imbalance in the first place....

I AGREE.....

I feel that there is beginning to be an awareness among people who previously weren't, if for no other reason than the fact that a lot of scientific people are having to resort to religions favorite tool;

forcing it into peoples heads by osmosis.

My view is that those fuckers (religious 'leaders') led us down this road incrementally, and thats the only way out, a millimeter at a time.

As a scientific person who makes it his business to try to explain the mechanics of ecosystem/ biosphere chemistry to people who are interested, but not too well informed, in the real world as well as online, I have to say that, in a country where everybody has the internet, and cars that are computer controlled, electronics throughout the house, technology just, well, exploited everywhere, most people in this country are just ignorant of basic science.

It ain't rocket science, it's first-year chemistry.

Why does this willful ignorance exist?

...and more importantly, how do you get rid of it?

The way you get rid of it is simple;

EDUCATION...NOT an education where the parameters are set by the government (public schools) or by the church,
(catholic,or parochial schools)...but by people who don't have to wrestle with an agenda set by people interested in keeping the populace ignorant instead of educated.
Here where i live, EVERY school is in one of the two categories I just boxed them all into.

I'll step out on a limb here;

I've never met, ever, a well-educated person in this region who went to school in this region....the attitudes of church and state are too pervasive, like contaminated groundwater, they seep in every crack, and fill all recesses....and poison all chances of anything ever growing there.


There are still many lawsuits on the books in my state, filed by the ACLU as well as citizens, aginst school districts who STILL WON'T QUIT PRAYING IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM.

It's not that they don't understand, because they do, they've had the spirit as well as the letter of the law laid out to them repetitively, but they don't care, they're evangelical wack-jobs.


In short, they're much like 'Mr. BB' .... an ignoramus neo-con who doesn't see anything wrong with the world they've created.

(and I KNOW you're lurking, chump, have the guts and the convictions of your beliefs to...bring...your...propaganda to this discussion)

...sorry...

anyway, I think perhaps the only way to win is incrementally, and I rely on the fact that what I say may fall on a hundred deaf ears, but if I PERSIST, I will find a receptive ear, who, if convinced, has the ability to carry the message forward with the same philosophy.


In other words, you religious bastards, YOUR strategy.

Evangelism.

 

[????????]

I think that the majority of people who go to church are hypocrites.

The majority of people who do not go to church are hypocrites as well. Maybe you do not see that in a country like Greece where a lot of people still go to church, but if you remove the church, people do not change.

Well yeah some go to church, some don't, some give them money, some don't, some pray, some never do it, but the overall attitude is a façade. It would have been best fitting to say "the majority of people who say they are christians/whatever are hypocrites."

I'm not from Greece!

 

[Guest]

yesterday, i went to a big known monastery here in portugal. as i entered, i began thinking that as a child, i would regard the place as a mystic and holy place. now, i regard churches as a big work of art (sculpture, painting, architecture, etc) that happen to be founded under the false (and very handy for the ancient way of goverment power) interpretations of the bible. IMHO, the bible might have a good message to spread, if we read it with psychonaut eyes. they (the gospels) don't ever speak of church, they speak of a direct connection between the man and god. although i don't share this faith, of a existent supreme commander that exists simultaneously with us, i, perhaps because i want to look it this way, find them enjoyable and interesting to read. the church began to distort this message so heavily that it is now a completely different religion from the original bible version. i am also sure that the church rewrote the bible during this all this centuries, specially in the days where all the culture and art was centered in the churches, monasteries and, of course, Rome.
i am not a christian, and neither do i have a "religion", so to speak. i belive in the unity and decentralization of the conciousness, i also share many ideals with the hindu religion. this is to say, i don't regard christians as cinical, hypocrital people. in all religions there are people like this. the problem is that we are seeing society as a part of religion, as it once was. the twist here is that religion has become part of the society, and therefore, needs its rules and followers to survive. that's why many catholics are hypocrite, because also many people in this society are hypocrital.
in one last note, we need to remember that a person alone cannot be a hypocrite. it takes at least two persons to this kind of interaction takes place. so, i am positive that the hypocrisy needs to take place between societies of a large number of people, because there are hidden interests, personal agendas and individual goals to be fulfilled. my personal thoughts: this way of socializing is inherent of the human being, that cannot be lost by any other means than to think about it, question our behaviour and mend it. many psychonauts are not hypocrital because their personal experiences taught them that honesty and sincerity are the ways to freedom and "inner diving". we are a minority. the other people don't have experiences like us, and therefore, they play by the rules of the things they know. and they think they're right, just like us!

 

[spice]

I agree with you generally daytripper, the catholc church rewrote the bible, as you say, over the span of centuries...I confess, I haven't read too much of the excellent posts recently by some of you on the general topic of religion, christianity, etc... so I don't know if what I am about to say was discussed before... there was a meeting of the higher ups of the catholic church called the 'Council of Nicea' sometime around the 7th century, A.D. , where the
'wise elders' changed a lot of the new testament in whole cloth, omitting all references of such subjects as reincarnation and Jesus' travels to India and the Orient in his 20's.....where he probably picked up his 'philosophies'.....

Molding peoples opinions is the real work of the church, as this has been proven to be the best way to hold a culture in stasis....Unmolding them is the work of psychedelics, and psychonauts.
Having an open mind isn't always a gratifying experience, either. I remember a hard lesson given to me by LSD, years ago.....where I was confronted with the reality that if I didn't want to be like everyone else in my 'culture bubble'
I had to reject the things that made these people the way they were....upon further reflection, and more assistance of LSD, I realized that what did all these things was a thing called tradition. Such a realization triggered a real ambivalence in me, because this really goes to the core of what we all are. My thinking was that if everything I have been taught is based on fallacies and general wrong ideas, then I have but two choices, neither appealling to me at that point in time;

1) Turn a blind eye to what I have realized, like everyone else, and carry on blindly, moo-ing and chewing...

OR

2) Change, and embrace the meta-programming alternative.


Re-programming yourself is exceptionally difficult, and by far more difficult than option #1, but at the end of the day, metaphorically, one has to live, and die, with oneself.
I am not going to reflect on my life regretting that I didn't have the balls to speak out and stand for what I thought was right.

All mutants aren't created 'in utero' some are created 'in vitro'

Unwinding your logic from your emotions is the key to reversing your programming successfully, because that's what tradition IS; an armored set of ideas that are protected from assault by emotional reference points. It takes psychedelics for most people to even have a chance of seeing this in their own terms.

As an example, I know a person, in 'meatspace' ( daily 'life', the 'real' world, whatever you'd call it) who, without meaning to, attaches a huge emotional charge to OBJECTS....useless objects most people would sell at a garage sale or donate to goodwill, etc... this person will hold to, or 'cling' to ala zen, BECAUSE this object put this person in a wistful state of mind regarding the past....
Since i have became psychedelic, I feel that when reality shows me these things, it's for a reason, and what I took from it, by analogy, is that this person does, with objects, what most people do with ideas, ie; try to preserve them, to the point of petrification....see, without meaning to, or realizing it, this person invests great emotional energy in
her 'clinging'...why?

Because her consciousness 'imprinted' on one of these obects, ala Konrad Lorenz. (Lorenz was a behaivoral biologist who was a pioneer in animal studies) and she
unconsciously invested this object with power by transferring her feelings of 'love' or 'admiration' or 'respect'
or, all three, more likely, to AN OBJECT.

Crazy as hell, ain't it?

Hold on, it hasn't got started...

Well, where we are today, as a culture, is basically caused by the EXACT SAME FORCES I just laid out , except that the objects have been replaced with attitudes, abstractions, for the most part.

This is why people have trouble changing, even when they want to. When your emotions are entertwined with your logic, that always happens to some degree, and this is why psychedelics help so many people so much, because it helps one see from other perspectives.

Let's extend and elaborate on my (Lorenz') concept of imprinting.

As a topic, I'll choose a good example;

Those great American pasttimes, 'hunting and fishing'

No rational person in anywhere near a state one could call sanity enjoys torturing and killing animals needlessly, yet every day, fathers take great delight in rousing their sleeping children from their warm safe beds to get up, pull on camo, and get some guns and head to the woods, in search of bambi. Frequently you see these little proud murderers on the back of the sports page, holding some ravaged animals head up, for the eerie green reflection of the nosy camera...." Little Tommy Thibadoux, age 7, blah...."

These children go home, are admired for their deed, and recieve mucho positive feedback. Emotionally, they are being conditioned, by imprint, to accept this as not only normal, but 'valorous' and even 'heroic'... for something that didn't go in the freezer, something that not only wasn't attacking, but that had to be tracked and hunted...
Remember, children learn best by example.
But they RETAIN information best when it carries a strong emotional component. This, basically, defines imprinting.
Once a boy is made into a 'hunter'...he naturally begins to spend more time in pursuit of this past-time, and generally hone his skills and abilities so that the next stage when it arrives ( that of sending his ass to some foriegn country to hunt...other men) won't catch him totally unprepared.
Once that next stage does happen, the imprint process goes down again, but at a higher level, and this neophyte is molded, via imprint, into a mindless automaton.

His programming is never at threat because he has too many emotional attachments to it. Unless he finds psychedelics, or their weaker stand-in, the near-death experience, he has no chance of changing.
These are the guys you hear about whacking their wives,
or a kid who egged their house....

The acid showed me that attitudes are grown in layers, and layers is how they have to be changed. But the only way they can BE changed is from within, and something has to begin the process.

Humans, such as we are, that usually has to be a traumatic event.

 

[HeartCore]

Spice:

EDUCATION...NOT an education where the parameters are set by the government (public schools) or by the church,
(catholic,or parochial schools)...but by people who don't have to wrestle with an agenda set by people interested in keeping the populace ignorant instead of educated.
Here where i live, EVERY school is in one of the two categories I just boxed them all into.

Nails it....

Daytripper: The bible is rigged as well, especially the new testament. The first 300 years of Christianity, it was believed to be preposterous to believe in a historical Jesus. That's the reason that there aren't many literal Christians in that time. And the small groups that existed and did believe in a historical Jesus, where beating each other over the head with texts which became increasingly more forged, bundled in one convenient guide to control the masses. The biggest victory reached in that, was eliminating all our languages and pushing the new language through everybody's throat. Now you control access to God and to the contexts and concepts people can actually know about. Censorship of our language, that is how far out this power house went in getting control.

A lot of the ancient churches in Southern Europe, have been build on pagan temples. And as well as this is hidden by the church, when you draw lines between many of such churches in Europe, you find massive pentagrams where the points end up in the exact place in the churches, where the altar is. That would have been a fun pun, if there hadn't been so much killing of those original communities by the church.

 

[Guest]

heartcore, you are right about christianity building their faith on the already existent pagan religion. in portugal and southern spain, there are countless pagan symbols: the bull's horn, the hand crossing it's thumb between the indicator and the middle finger (known here as "figa"), many pentagrams and so on. many times, elders praise more a holy person (a popular saint), than even god or jesus. they always say "it is my personal saint, i am devoted to him/her", just like the pagan gods, like apolo, neptune, and so on. they even have personal shrines at home for adoration. i think it is very easy to understand and see that the people continue to live by the pagan way, instead of catholic insistence. both in spain and portugal, exept in very rare cases, there is no representation of god in church. there is of jesus, of course, but not of god. from what i've learned, it has been inherited by the many centuries of muslim control over this area.
no need to say that the majority of the elders turn to witchcraft very often, and luck, feeling, and other mundane aspects of paganism are very, very present, both in the elders and the young people.

 

[buffachino]

Spice, i agree...

This is the foundation for humanities collapse.
The intractable retention of objects or ideals as finite representations of ones reality, rather than the concrescence of systemic understanding through felt experience as reality itself.

The fundamental aspect of evolution is to assimilate the understanding of felt experience into the resonance of consciousness for the creation and experience of consecutive novelty; rather than preserving the finite points as representations of experience. If one retains points, one restricts their own possibility.
In reality, there are no points, only understandings; an eternal flow of conceptual information that drives evolution.

This is how humanity now operates: by the culminated perspective of those points which represent who an individual is; the birth of the ego. This preservation of points removes one from the very essence of oneself, and the function of life. Humanity is lost; drifting blindly through an inane void of objects which artificially embody an individual reality. Humanity takes the things that define our reality as reality itself, rather than reality itself defining who we are.

People see objects, not themselves. So much emotion and cognisance is invested in an object or incidence that it depersonalises the individual so as that they become what they cling to. They do not see themselves anymore; rather all they have become is a multitude of objects, not a being.

Psychedelics show you yourself; not the abstractions that have come to represent you.
They reveal an expanded perceptual spectrum of true reality; nothing more, nothing less.

This very system of imprinted conditioning is the basis for humanities corruption. Through the direct nurture and promotion of these now extensive egocentric personifications of our existence, the pursuit and retention of objects becomes the axis of human society to which all individuals abide and aspire. This is the apex from which we abandon nature and ourselves. When a being is defined by what they should do, rather than by what they can do. In constricting the pure infinite possibility of life through this indoctrination, we deny ourselves the reality of our existence and possibility of evolution.

Peace.

 

[Forkbender]

We have to make the difference if others won't.
Stay positive about the influence you can make on the world.
Peace

 

[buffachino]

Yes.

 

[ararat]

or lets turn it other way round: hypocrites are more likely to go to church than other people.

I don't think religion has anything to do with it. Hypocrisy is a religious term, refering to people who join the church but who don't really believe, i.e. do something that they don't truly support. I guess that religious hypocrits are only to be found in churches, but outside of them, you'll find a lot of people who think that global warming is a big issue and that we should stop it, while driving for hours in their car to work every day. Money is still more important than a healthy planet and people who will not admit this are hypocrites.

I also don't think that religion matters. but when I talk about hypocrites, I mean people who do or say something, but in the end they secretly do the opposite. in german we have a saying, "Wasser predigen und Wein trinken", which is translated directly "Preaching water and drinking wine.". I don't know if it exists in english, but it's kind of the thing I want to say.
I think many people go to church, or say that they are christian or whatever, only to gain social respect.
george bush would never has become president if he said that he is an atheist (in case there'd be real democracy, and the elections wouldn't have been manipulated.)

 

[????????]

re-reading this topic I found that maybe my post is prone to misinterpretations... ???

If somehow it shows I think religion is the cause of hypocriticism, I don't...
more like it's a very human trait and a good example of it happens to be church goers...

well if you did understand me then ignore this

 

[GOD]

Here is the web adress for a news video from yesterday called " Amazon 'disappearing fast'" .

http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/ ... y=13&go=go


On a German documentary yesterday a scientist said that it has been proved that the last time the climate changed at this rate was 3,000,000 years ago with catastrophic effects for the planet .

 

[Meduzz]

3,000,000 years ago with catastrophic effects for the planet .

life went on didn't it? :wink:

maybe there will be no more human life after the upcoming catastrophe,
but isn't it beautiful how everything would fall in place then?

 

[HeartCore]

3,000,000 years ago with catastrophic effects for the planet .

life went on didn't it? :wink:

maybe there will be no more human life after the upcoming catastrophe,
but isn't it beautiful how everything would fall in place then?

That depends entirely how you look at it. Are human being an error? A mere virus on planetary scale that should be rid of asap?

Or are we somehow the state of the art, invented by this ancient planetary consiousness which is somehow aware of our dieing sun AND curious to our far away neighbours. So we evolved into these beings which are able to understand the scripting of life (DNA), build small machines (nano technology), make organic computers, switch to quantum processing instead of current primitive 1/0 computing.

Is this an accident?

Or are we destined to mold the human species into a new form, pack our collective consiousness in a tiny bunch of molecules and send US into space?

(shamelessly stolen from many Terence ideas )

 

[Guest]

or are we just making that up so we can be comforted by thinking that one day, mysteriously, all of the darkside of mankind will be magically gone ?

 

[GOD]

Yes some of what uncle Terence said was quite sensible .

 

[HeartCore]

or are we just making that up so we can be comforted by thinking that one day, mysteriously, all of the darkside of mankind will be magically gone ?

Where does that come from? It doesnt imply that at all. What it does imply is that we are here for a reason and actually have a task different than sitting on our asses, waiting for the darkness of mankind to go away

 

[Guest]

i haven't grasped that mckenna concept that you talk about, heartcore. i've read many of his books/texts, and still i don't agree with it. perhaps i am seeing it the wrong way, if many of experienced/older psychonauts say me the same, they can't be all wrong...perhaps i will eventually come to that conclusion, but not right now. it is wonderful, because it fills me with hope, but i have this hard time beliving in expectations.

 

[Meduzz]

i find it beautiful because it's our own fault we will die. we can still do something about it though...

how we will deal with global warming: we will get what we deserve.

one way we do something about it, stop raping earth,... and continue as a specie,

the other way, we fuck up and we self destruct