Salvia Reduction

[ssmithford]

In cooking food there is a term for adding alcohol, sugar and other flavorants and letting the mix simmer (NOT boil) itself down = reduction.

I have a package of 20x that I've not been getting much results off of past a relaxing in my shoulders and hot skin. After reading older posts about tinctures I thought on making a reduction. I started by adding 1 part wiskey (the only alcohol I had) to 1 part sugar to 1/2 tsp 20x extraction powdered, and letting that reduce down for an hour. When the reduction cooled I poured it into a small clean glass jar.

As I had some free time yesterday I thought I'd have a lay down and give it a try. I took the bottle into my bedroom with me and set it on the windowsill after I took 6 mini-sips of the mix. The taste was absolutely horrid! If not for the thought that I'd have a good time I'd never do that again. Anyway, I didn't find the effects beyond a slightly increased sensuality (which may have been wistful thinking) to be that great, and thought that I'd perhaps wasted 1/2 teaspoon salvia and some not so great whiskey, but really mourned the loss of the sugar used.

Not really thinking about it I left the jar on the window sill in my bedroom with the lid slightly off. We live in a basement apartment and that particular window gets nothing but indirect light at the height of the summer season (which it definately is not right now). Later that evening, about 9 hours later, I thought that if I was going to try it again, and try to figure out how - if at all possible - to fix it.

Very surprised to find the reduction quite cold and sweet to the taste. Again, not much for the first forty minutes but hot skin and a wish my husband were awake for some fun.

About the 45 minute mark (yes, I looked at the clock) I was aware of two eyes looking back at me. From then to about the point I walked into a room to see a clasically dressed man (similar in face to Liam/Viggo) who simply looked up and said, "You have to stop now."...anyways from the front to the back was about an hour and a half trip. Mixed in with visuals of the trip was a lullaby - don't ask me which language, and the sensation of being rocked by arms or in gentle swells of water.

In the drift down afterwards was a sensation of being romantically surrounded on all sides by lovers and/or people who loved me irregardless of any sexual expression. As I'm diabetic (hence the mournign the sugar) I'm not entirely certain what I was reacting to was the salvia, the alcohol or the sugar. But at this point I'm thrilled with the results.

Post note on this: My body tends to do a general flush/release about 5 hours after a salvia hit from my bong. And it lasts about 10 to 15 hours. Not very comfortable for me, for all that entails. I've not had that experience with the reduction, which immediately catapults it to the top of my list of favorite Salvia variants to use.

I hope this helps anyone else who likes salvia but not the very messy aftereffects it can have on a sensitive system.

 

[Synith]

Lemme get this strait. You DRANK Salvia leaves (20x) with alcohol?

If you did, it was likely a placebo effect. Salvinorum A is DESTROYED by your stomach and liver. Hence. if you eat Salvia--- the leaves, or extract-- there will be no effect. At most you'll end up with an upset stomach and diarrhea.

Smoke the leaf extract, or CHEW it. Never swallow it.

At most, you were drunk with a placebo effect.

 

[Forkbender]

Some of it may have been taken in sublingually, right?

 

[Synith]

'Some of it may have been taken in sublingually, right?'

It's possible, but the poster said that he/she downed it with whiskey. *shrugs*

 

[Forkbender]

Did you keep it in your mouth for a while, ssmithford?

 

[ssmithford]

Kept each sip in my mouth for 10 minutes. By that time there was not much that wasn't saliva. And, no, no stomach issues from swallowing it - unlike what happens when I smoke it.

I did try another mix with honey and had absolutely no response to that. In terms of the placebo effect there's a strong difference between the the first time I tried the reduction, the second time I tried the reduction, and a honey (no whiskey) based reduction.

Someone in 2007 had posted that their tincture needed to sit about a week before use. I'm not sure I'd let a reduction sit that long, but it's worth trying.

 

[Synith]

Hm.

Are you on any sort of medication? Smoke really shouldn't upset your stomach. It might irritate your lungs.

Also-- what sorts of foods are you eating? (could be a major factor as well)

Yes, the Salvia leaf needs to be emerged in the alcohol for a good 7-10 days. Keep in fridge. Shake twice a day.

Again, I wouldn't recommend that you swallow the leaves if you already have stomach issues.

Try chewing a quid. You'll need about 4 to 8 ounces of leaf. Preferably no dried out (The Mazatecs think it's a disgrace to have the leaf dry, or burnt due to the fact that Salvia grows much better is moist, dark conditions.) Roll the leaves into a ball, place in water for 10 mins-- chew every 10-15 seconds. In about 15 mins you'll start to feel her effects. Keep chewing for 15 more mins, spit out. You'll be chewing for a total of 25-30 mins max.

If you're on medication, this could be the reason why Salvia upsets your stomach. Good luck with the healing. Perhaps Salvia could heal your stomach. It's been known to heal all sorts of things.
Best wishes to you.

-S

 

[JustinNed]

Is it the MAO enzyme that breaks it down? I'm thinking MAOI + Salvia.

 

[Synith]

'Is it the MAO enzyme that breaks it down? I'm thinking MAOI + Salvia'

Clarify this please....

 

[JustinNed]

"If you did, it was likely a placebo effect. Salvinorum A is DESTROYED by your stomach and liver. Hence. if you eat Salvia--- the leaves, or extract-- there will be no effect. At most you'll end up with an upset stomach and diarrhea."

I'm assuming that what breaks down Salvinorum is the MAO enzyme which breaks down countless other drugs and toxins. So if you could inhibit the enzymes you would be able to take the chemical orally, because by the time it gets to your liver it should already be metabolized in to your system, right?

 

[Synith]

'I'm assuming that what breaks down Salvinorum is the MAO enzyme which breaks down countless other drugs and toxins. So if you could inhibit the enzymes you would be able to take the chemical orally, because by the time it gets to your liver it should already be metabolized in to your system, right?'

I'm not sure what enzyme breaks it down. As far as I know it's your gastrointestinal that does the work. I know it's broad, but I don't know what enzyme breaks it down.

' you could inhibit the enzymes you would be able to take the chemical orally'

Seems pointless to do so. You'd get an effect by chewing. Besides, this could lead to actual damage of your internal system. It's better to do it the way it's been done throughout history>> chewing a quid; or smoking an extract.

In theory, I believe it's possible to do that. But no research has been done on it thus far. I wouldn't mess with your internal organs. They keep you going.

 

[ssmithford]

The only medication I am on is Insulin R. I do have a high love for sugars and sugary things and am very aware of how my body reacts when I'm low, regular or high blood sugar. You have to get really high (about 400mg/dl or more) to start experiencing paranoia, by which point you're heading to the hospital anyways. (Regular is from 90mg/dl to 120 mg/dl to give a point of reference.) I've been over 700mg/dl and never had hallucinations or lucid dreaming, just the opposite. So even with the added alcohol sugars and sugar in the reduction that would not be the cause of the very vivid and very nice walk I had.

Salvia does have a history of encouraging cleaning/excavation. It's mentioned very briefly in most of the literature out there, but not a lot of exposition. However, I've only read 1x that Salvia could be used to *ease* digestive issues, but I wasn't able get clarification from the person who wrote the article in which that was mentioned.

To be clear, to the person who yim'd me: If all I was interested in was increased sensuality I'd take Maca suppliment with every meal and leave it at that.

Unfortunately, I think, there's no medical research on Salvia so people like us have to suss out what works best with what little information we have. I did read on these forums and elsewhere that just chewing and swallowing the fresh leaf caused internal issue. I'm not happy with that all I have access to is the extracts where I'm at location wise. I wish it were different and that I had a live plant to work with. But I don't so I move on working with what I can get.

(However, if anyone has a source for live plants in the Denver-Metro area, I'm more than willing to talk to that person(s)!)

I hope that answers some questions or gives more insight.

 

[Synith]

'The only medication I am on is Insulin R. I do have a high love for sugars and sugary things and am very aware of how my body reacts when I'm low, regular or high blood sugar. You have to get really high (about 400mg/dl or more) to start experiencing paranoia, by which point you're heading to the hospital anyways. (Regular is from 90mg/dl to 120 mg/dl to give a point of reference.) I've been over 700mg/dl and never had hallucinations or lucid dreaming, just the opposite. So even with the added alcohol sugars and sugar in the reduction that would not be the cause of the very vivid and very nice walk I had.'

Stop eating sugar. See how your body reacts. It's no wonder why you throw up. You mixed it with whiskey. You may as well down a whole bag of sugar.

'Salvia does have a history of encouraging cleaning/excavation. It's mentioned very briefly in most of the literature out there, but not a lot of exposition. However, I've only read 1x that Salvia could be used to *ease* digestive issues, but I wasn't able get clarification from the person who wrote the article in which that was mentioned.'

Where did you get thins information? Rarely does Salvia make you throw up unless you swallow it, or you have a motion sickness condition; if that's the case-- I wouldn't get into psychedelics.


'Unfortunately, I think, there's no medical research on Salvia so people like us have to suss out what works best with what little information we have. I did read on these forums and elsewhere that just chewing and swallowing the fresh leaf caused internal issue. I'm not happy with that all I have access to is the extracts where I'm at location wise. I wish it were different and that I had a live plant to work with. But I don't so I move on working with what I can get.'

There's been many medical tests and research on Salvia. I'm not sure why you said 'no medical research' There's been a lot done, actually. Not much is know about the history of the plant. Little is know about Coleus, which was said to be a 'replacement' for Salvia. Nothing is really known about the effects of Coleus.

For what purpose are you doing Salvia for? If you're using it to merely escape, or want to get 'messed up', move on. You have no idea how powerful this healing plant is.

'(However, if anyone has a source for live plants in the Denver-Metro area, I'm more than willing to talk to that person(s)!)'

Nope. No advertising is allowed on this site.
You can order seeds online if you wish.
Do the research.

 

[ssmithford]

Wow! I thank you for your response. It's definately very intersting.

I'm curious about a few things in your response:

1) A google search hasn't and is not providing me with any real medical study information beyond what Salvia is and the botony/breakdown of the plant. I see lots of notices about medical trials "in process" or "discarded", and a lot of hoopla about effects on people but the 'research' notes are actually on the historical signifigance of salvia and interviews on salvia, but nothing about completed research on people. Is there any medical study in specific you can refer me to? I'm just not seeing it.

2) If you or someone close to you is diabetic. Just simply that you came across as someone who has had some experience around diabetes. I'm always willing to talk to any diabetic who has an interest or is working with 'fringe science' to resolve issues. (Fringe=not from mainstream)


If you're not comfortable leaving a forum response, I would love an email or a pm.

Thanks!
Ssmithford

Erm...and about the bit of throwing up...I never said I threw up. That I would definately remember. LOL! No, actually, I had no negative digestive issues off of taking the reduction. I only have the negative issues when smoking Salvia - irregardless of whether I get hit with a boom or a bust.

 

[GOD]

" Smoke really shouldn't upset your stomach"

Smokeing cannabis or tobaco used to make me puke . I think Spice said the same to .

"You'll need about 4 to 8 ounces of leaf"

Thats more than stupid . How the fuck are you going to get that much in your mouth ? I used to have a quid about as big as a ping pong ball in my mouth for about 10 - 20 minutes and got realy blasted .

"Besides, this could lead to actual damage of your internal system."

How ? Why ?

"It's better to do it the way it's been done throughout history>> chewing a quid; or smoking an extract. "

Throughout history ? Smokeing an extract ? What about the traditional maztek way of makeing a water extract ? Or have you still not done any research ?

" yim'd"

Can you speak english please .

 

[restin]

" Smoke really shouldn't upset your stomach"

Smokeing cannabis or tobaco used to make me puke . I think Spice said the same to .

Indeed, tobacco has a very irritating effect on the stomach. A lot of people think that it just kills the feeling of hunger (a lot of people especially women smoke for diet) but that's just the weaker effect of tobacco. Take some very strong snus --- you will have the feeling of puking, believe me.

 

[ssmithford]

Good to know about the water extract. I'll be searching for information on that now.

YIM = Yahoo Instant Message. I forgot that some abbreviations are not internet-global. My apologies.

No, the funny thing about diabetics and alcoholic beverage is that taken in the right dose it can be quite beneficial. It takes the liver 1+1/2 hours to clean out 1oz of alcohol. In order for the liver to do that it shuts down making glucose, a sugar. For someone who is insulin dependent and struggling still to control sugar production/absorption rates, 1 oz of alcohol consumed over the space of an hour to two hours (or longer!) can be quite beneficial in a medical type of way. To be sure this is one of those bits of information that really depends on knowing how your body reacts to things like alcohol consumption (in general) and alcohol consumption (in specific: Ouzo vs Anise Liquor vs triple sec).

My reasoning for making the reduction was specifically to find a method of taking Salvia that would give me a balance between the actual experience, to continue to be respectful of Salvia, and not so abrupt or harmful to my body.

I wanted to share my experience with everyone and get their feedback, and have been pleasantly surprised with the responses. I've also been taking loads of notes and have gained new areas to look in for research answers.
Thank You!
Ssmithford

 

[skoeip]

About the MAO-i talk about salvia, MAO-i means mono AMINE oxidase inhibitor, so it inhibits the breakdown of amines, and amines contain nitrogen atoms, salvinorin doesn't contain nitrogens, and are no amines. I think salvinorin is destroyed by the acids in your stomach.

 

[skoeip]

just read his tread, it explains how salvinorin a is destroyed in our digestive system (and the rest of our body?)
[url=http://www.psychonaut.com/ind...w.psychonaut.com/index.php?opt ... 21&lang=nl[/url]

 

[Synith]

'Indeed, tobacco has a very irritating effect on the stomach. A lot of people think that it just kills the feeling of hunger (a lot of people especially women smoke for diet) but that's just the weaker effect of tobacco. Take some very strong snus --- you will have the feeling of puking, believe me.'

True. However, your method of smoking is a factor. If you inhale a enormous amount of smoke, yeah you're gonna puke.

As for the hunger thing-- I haven't noticed that with my tobacco smoking. If anything it makes me crave food.

And.. I'd rather not snus my snus.