Quantum Mechanics/Physics

[spice]

The best book I ever read on Zen is 'Way of Zen' by Alan Watts.

For a basic primer on the philosophy of perception, theres no better.

Watts was one of the first Westerners to actually 'grasp' zen and decode it foe the rest of us.

For physics, any good chem textbook will prime you on classical and quantum...

Watts did acid with all the usual 60s characters....but he was a divinity student way back when,,,, so he comes from a unique angle.

 

[spice]

This is a great example of a koan....




A great Japanese warrior named Nobunaga decided to attack the enemy although he had only one-tenth the number of men the opposition commanded. He knew that he would win, but his soldiers were in doubt.

On the way he stopped at a Shinto shrine and told his men: "After I visit the shrine I will toss a coin. If heads comes, we will win; if tails, we will lose. Destiny holds us in her hand."

Nobunaga entered the shrine and offered a silent prayer. He came forth and tossed a coin. Heads appeared. His soldiers were so eager to fight that they won their battle easily.

"No one can change the hand of destiny," his attendant told him after the battle.

"Indeed not," said Nobunaga, showing a coin which had been doubled, with heads facing either way.

 

[spice]

As an addendum on this subject, one may find it interesting to note that as studies in these quantum areas progressed, researchers found that when they LOOKED for a particle, they found a particle.

When they LOOKED for a wave, they found a wave.

This implies, and strongly, that the zenners and taoists were on to something.

The direct implication is that our expectations color our perception of reality.

OR

Reality conforms, to a degree we're not really sure of, our expectations of it.


OR

Our brains, grown in the same process that reality was grown ( the TAO)
can only see this process indirectly, much as an eye can only see itself indirectly.


Ever wonder if our model of the atom and solar system were coincidence?

Our 'model' is integral, almost archetypal....


'particles moving in the pattern of waves'

 

[Meduzz]

has anyone read "The Eagle's Quest" by Fred Allan Wolf?

it's a very disturbing book where the author (doctor in theoretical physics) visits sjamanist tribes in south-america, he actually discovers that their believes of nature are in fact extremely similar to what is now known to us as quantum mechanics. he also has an explanation via quantum physics how come you can travel between worlds with ayahuasca.

this is one of the most disturbing books i've ever read.

 

[Soulcatcher]

t's a very disturbing book where the author (doctor in theoretical physics) visits sjamanist tribes in south-america, he actually discovers that their believes of nature are in fact extremely similar to what is now known to us as quantum mechanics. he also has an explanation via quantum physics how come you can travel between worlds with ayahuasca.

I haven't read the book, but i do thinks it's fun to get to know the world from different perspectives and think about the possibilities. Actually, I study physics myself and it really enlightens me (like psychedelics, but different). It helps me think over a lot of different subjects. Although i must say there is a lot of pseudo-sciencific stuff out there.. it's usually fun but shouldnt be taken too serious (i think the same about what the bleep). It is good for stimulating people to get an interest for the subject, but the idea is very idealistic and often not (yet?) very real.
But that doesnt mean we can't dream on! Keep up the good work..

Greets

 

[spice]

soulcatcher- thats a nice quote....it pretty much epitomizes the whole mentality required for any of these types of exploratrions.


...and yes, theres plenty of psuedoscience everywhere. Which is how come we the people are we the screwed, as to date.

Science is the ONLY way out of this mess. Pseudocrap should be quickly debunked and unmasked for what it is, usually someones opinion. Nothing wrong with having an opinion, but recognizing where the line is, is important.

Quantum physics, as studied, has more or less reached an impasse until we can figure out what role our perception plays in it. These answers are not going to be supplied by any kind of dimensional analysis, or data recording measuring sticks, they will be supplied, eventually, by fearless sailors of the psyche who have enough classical education to bridge the gap betwixt the two realities, yet enough intuition to see the light.

Scientific principles should be ingrained in every child as whatever native language. Religion should never, ever, interfere. and all it DOES, as practiced in the world today, is interlope, and interfere. It does this with most of our blessings, too.

This religion shit is going to ultimately cost this species, and big time.

For the record, Tao is not a religion. It is a 'way' or a process of perception.

 

[MzFly]

this is one of the most disturbing books i've ever read.

Why did you find it so disturbing?

 

[Meduzz]

this is one of the most disturbing books i've ever read.

Why did you find it so disturbing?

"disturbing" was maybe a but overexagerated, but its close to that

the fact that the sjamans have developed a vision of the world that we are discovering now. while we were held stupid by christianity they found things that we discover now.

also, it's very interesting to read about the autor's explanation that it could be theoretically possible to travel between "paralel worlds" with the use of ayahuasca. DMT has always facinated me.

the author also questions modern science. while most scientists laugh at spirituality with the tought that there is no proof for it, the author points out that science has some points where you can get sceptic. the perception effect (i don't know if this translation is correct, waarnemerseffect in dutch) could be considered as a lame excuse. like the electron; if you look for a particle, you percieve a particle. if you look for a wave, the electron is a wave. the theories developed after the perception effect just can't be solid, it goes above perception, the defenition even says you can't prove a theory.
the author uses this to show that you just can't hold on to science alone, you always must be a bit sceptical.

in history, there always was a wave movement between spirituality and ratio. what gives us the conceitedness, the pretension to think that now, we have discovered the truth, that spirituality is for dumbasses who don't understand shit about physics. people have believed extremely firm in christianity, litteraly interpreting the bible,... maybe science is wrong too?
maybe science is just an illusion, we may be looking past what is. but i don't know... no one does in fact...

i just try to keep an equilibrum between spirituality and science, they both are of great interest to me, and that's why "the eagle's quest" was such a perfect book for me.

 

[spice]

Exactly.

 

[HeartCore]

the fact that the sjamans have developed a vision of the world that we are discovering now. while we were held stupid by christianity they found things that we discover now.

The christian church knew about these plants and worldview and at some point, even used it themselves while at the same time, prohibiting these plants for everybody. Talking about hypocrits.

 

[Guest]

I don't think science will get us out of anything.
All scientific assumptions are true till some mad professor finds out it's different.
Then we have a whole set of new assumptions wich will be crushed in another decade.

Science can be interesting, but also be a big pile of b.s.

 

[JosVU]

Wanna know about quantum phisics, watch The Elegant Universe. This documentary covers almost everything of quantum phisics and the string theory. You can watch it at google.video.com, all three parts of it. I'd say, watch that if you want the scientific explanations.

I stayed up this night and watched all 3! Great video's.
But I must see them again to day or tomorrow 'cause everything they say is just so fucking logical. It's like they explain a psychedelic experience but there actualy doing math..

 

[phalaris]

I don't think science will get us out of anything.
All scientific assumptions are true till some mad professor finds out it's different.
Then we have a whole set of new assumptions wich will be crushed in another decade.

Science can be interesting, but also be a big pile of b.s.

you just decribed the very core of the scientific method

Science is interesting because it can be a big pile of b.s.

interesting read:
http://teacher.pas.rochester.edu/phy_labs/AppendixE/AppendixE.html

 

[spice]

 

[Soulcatcher]

I don't think science will get us out of anything.
All scientific assumptions are true till some mad professor finds out it's different.
Then we have a whole set of new assumptions wich will be crushed in another decade.

Science can be interesting, but also be a big pile of b.s.

That doesn't mean its useless though.. The theories of these days all work perfectly for different scales of size (for instance; quantum mechanics, classical mechanics, relativity) But basicly cant be used for problems out of their reach or dont include the whole thing (like quantum mechanics lacking gravity). The search is on for a deeper set of laws (string theory is one of the leading candidates atm). But in the meantime, new discoveries certainly bring the human civilization to a 'higher level' (in a sense).. Nanoscience is popular these days, allowing us to form the world on an atomic level. This has a great deal of applications.

So even if we are in an endless cycle of coming up with new theories and disproving them, they do bring us technological advancement.. But is the human race able to handle it... :twisted:

 

[Meduzz]

Wanna know about quantum phisics, watch The Elegant Universe. This documentary covers almost everything of quantum phisics and the string theory. You can watch it at google.video.com, all three parts of it. I'd say, watch that if you want the scientific explanations.

is that from brian greene's book? i'll soon start his other book "ontrafeling van de kosmos: de zoektocht naar de theorie van alles"
i'm too lazy right now to get the book and look for the original title