Psychonautica 51 - Dale Pendell 'Plant teachers and the path

[maxfreakout]

In this week's installment of psychonautica, Max Freakout first talks about a new scientific study into near-death experiences, and mentions the forthcoming UK hemp expo in London in November. Next, Max plays a talk from Dale Pendell at the World psychedelic forum called 'Plant teachers and the path of Eve, the mythopoetic roots of psychedelic practise in the Western tradition'. Dale Pendell talks about the importance of having a shadow, losing your shadow, the importance of luck in some shamanic traditions, Western shamanic figures such as Orpheus, Socrates, divine madness and shamanism, scapegoating drugs, Faust the necromancer, necromancing as Western shamanism, giving bodies to spirits, black magic and conjuring, Buddhist philosophy on the 6 levels of the world, plant wisdom, possible entheogen allusions in religious art, William Blake, artistic depictions of Eve and the serpent in the garden of Eden, Eve as the protector of the 'poison path', and as Isis, modern cultural myopia towards sacred plants and the poetry of John Milton.

Playlist: the Beatles - tomorrow never knows

DOWNLOAD HERE:
http://media.libsyn.com/media/dopecast/psychonautica051.mp3

 

[zezt]

Hey MAX, GREAT what your doing man. And I love it that your from UK---we need more mavericks like you. this little island with the corporate walls closing in. We NEED more more more Divine Madness to stop this plastic rot

The subjects you introed had my eyes bulging out so i just HAD to quickly begin listening, and wasn't disappointed. Mindblowing!

That talk from Dale Pendell is really great. Especially when he speaks about how there is black magick being done on us! This fits in with exactly where I am at. Which is trying to get my head round how the perpetrators of 9/11, and 7/7/7, etc etc are into occultism, and those
atrocities have their occultist signature all over them--ie., numerology, and correspondences and so on!!! And that these clues point DIRECTLY at who is really responsible!

What is further weird--for me--is that the researchers mainly investigating this seem to fit into two main camps: Christians who quote mainly from their Bible, especially the Book of Revelations-----however, in their condemnation of these elitist occultist controllers, who they term 'Pagan', they demonize ALL Paganism, and push their Christian belief system, which condemns homosexuality, psychedelics, you name it! Which aint cool

In the other came we have those mainly influenced by David Icke. These it seems to me are coming from an Eastern idealistic perspective, where they believe reality is an illusion, a '5 sense 3 D trap' which is made to be so by the elite occultists in hybrid with reptilian aliens. And where even DEATH is no escape, because we are forced back via reincarnation to continue being their slaves

And let's not forget, the general shit pushed to us via so-called 'education'--ie materialistic-mechansitic science which claims that Nature and our natures are gentically determined and mechansitic, and the former, Nature, is a commodity to be exploited and latter, our natures --if 'breaking down'--can be 'fixed' by their drugs so we can go on being efficient little machines!

All of those belief systems disrespect Nature and our natures!

Feedback to me if you agree or dont agree, and we;;ll chat

Find ways to UNBIND their spells. First step is beginning to explore what they are up to!

 

[zezt]

aree you'll trying to say this subject doesn't INTEREST you, or is ya sulking?

 

[maxfreakout]

i'm with Terence Mckenna on this issue, nobody is in control, the people who think they are in control, are the most deluded people of all

3-dimensional material reality is an illusion, but that isnt a bad thing, it is a test

 

[EROCx1]

Awesome talk! Dale Pendell is great. If you dont have the triliogy. buy it NOW! Thank you for sharing Max!

 

[zezt]

i'm with Terence Mckenna on this issue, nobody is in control, the people who think they are in control, are the most deluded people of all

3-dimensional material reality is an illusion, but that isnt a bad thing, it is a test

Stop paying your taxes, and we'll talk later :?

Please explain to me how 3-dimensional reality is an illusion?

 

[maxfreakout]

Stop paying your taxes, and we'll talk later :?

you pay taxes for the privilege of living in a society, if you dont want to pay taxes, move away from society, go and be self sufficient, then you wont have to pay anymore

Please explain to me how 3-dimensional reality is an illusion?

it comes down to the distinction between appearance and reality

ordinarily, the human mind conflates appearance with reality, ie you tacitly assume that the computer screen you see in front of your face right now, is a REAL computer screen.

But this is not really the case, the light emitted from the computer screen hits your eyes, then your mind internally reconstructs an image of it, so the computer screen that you are actually seeing, is in fact not a real computer screen, but instead your mind's own internal reconstruction of it

therefore, the entire universe is a subjetive hallucination (ie, it is an illusion), the underlying reality which you assume lies beneath the surfaces that are presented tyo your awareness, is a mere hypothesis

this is what psychedelic visuals are showing you, the effect of visuals (and also HPPD) is to loosen the rigid association between appearance and reality, therefore psychedelic drugs demonstrate that reality is an illusion

 

[GOD]

What a load of pseudo intelectual bollocks . What you see is an image / light reflection , but the computer isnt , it exists . It exists the same for all of us in the same way or we wouldnt be able to identify it or use it as a group or teach each other how to use it .

HPPD does not exist either, exept in the minds of confused sharlatans . Wich any honest person with a brain would see if he did a bit of research .

Please change sides in the war against drugs and join us for pro sensible , responsible , controled legalised use .

I`d advise you to spend less time talking and writing crap , stop taking drugs for a while , get your head clear / straight and then do some responsible directed ritual use .

 

[zezt]

Stop paying your taxes, and we'll talk later :?

you pay taxes for the privilege of living in a society, if you dont want to pay taxes, move away from society, go and be self sufficient, then you wont have to pay anymore

TAXES is a complex subject, I suggest you checkout here http://www.jeremiahproject.com/trashing ... taxes.html

Please explain to me how 3-dimensional reality is an illusion?

it comes down to the distinction between appearance and reality

[quote:q6mbvb6e]ordinarily, the human mind conflates appearance with reality, ie you tacitly assume that the computer screen you see in front of your face right now, is a REAL computer screen.

But this is not really the case, the light emitted from the computer screen hits your eyes, then your mind internally reconstructs an image of it, so the computer screen that you are actually seeing, is in fact not a real computer screen, but instead your mind's own internal reconstruction of it

therefore, the entire universe is a subjetive hallucination (ie, it is an illusion), the underlying reality which you assume lies beneath the surfaces that are presented tyo your awareness, is a mere hypothesis

this is what psychedelic visuals are showing you, the effect of visuals (and also HPPD) is to loosen the rigid association between appearance and reality, therefore psychedelic drugs demonstrate that reality is an illusion

[/quote:q6mbvb6e]

OK, you and me, we are both psychedelically experienced, right. So I cant do a guru-trip and pull wool over your eyes about what the 'truth really is', because we both have experience.
It is very hard to explain psychedelic experience to an un-experienced person. IMPOSSIBLE!
So I can say to you, when I am Tryping, and say I look at a leaf---the leaf doesn't disappear, does it. Does it for you?
How could we define what happens when I look at a leaf when having taken psychedelics. It is alive; it is assocated with my feeling dynamics, and I see it as through through a multdimensional telescope which also telescopes my senses--if you will. But the leaf is STILL there. That is my point. It is real, in its own right. it is not my personal illusion. Nor is the animals, cloud, other person, the air. All of this reality is very very VERY real. More feeling real now, than so-called ordinary consciousness when I might be in a dull phase.

Agree?

 

[maxfreakout]

What you see is an image / light reflection , but the computer isnt , it exists . It exists the same for all of us in the same way or we wouldnt be able to identify it or use it as a group or teach each other how to use it .

what i am saying is, you dont see the computer screen, you see your mind's internal reconstructed image of it. You then infer/hypothesize the existence of an external object, but you do not have any direct awareness of it

visual perception of reality is indirect, it is mediated by representations

HPPD does not exist either

yes it does, it is a common effect of regular entheogen use

 

[maxfreakout]

TAXES is a complex subject, I suggest you checkout here http://www.jeremiahproject.com/trashing ... taxes.html

you choose to pay taxes, because you choose to live in society, you pay taxes for the privilege of living in a society, nobody is forcing to to remain living there. If you dont want to pay taxes, you dont have to, but you must leave the comfort and safety of society in order to stop paying taxes

OK, you and me, we are both psychedelically experienced, right. So I cant do a guru-trip and pull wool over your eyes about what the 'truth really is', because we both have experience.
It is very hard to explain psychedelic experience to an un-experienced person. IMPOSSIBLE!l

i agree, we are members of a REAL secret society 8)

as Terence Mckenna said, there are 2 types of people, psychedelic and clueless

So I can say to you, when I am Tryping, and say I look at a leaf---the leaf doesn't disappear, does it. Does it for you?

no it doesnt disappear, but its appearance changes, for example it might look as if it is changing colour, or as if the surface of the leaf is warping and rippling. This visual effect is demonstrating the fact that the 'leaf' you are seeing is not real/external, it is rather an internally reproduced representation of a leaf. Psychedelic drugs are philosophy teachers, they demonstrate philosophical concepts

But the leaf is STILL there. That is my point. It is real, in its own right. it is not my personal illusion

the leaf may or may not 'really' be there, but what you are actually perceiving, is not a real leaf, the light is reflecting off of the surface of the leaf, and into your eyeball. After the light hits your eyeball, your mind processes this information, and reconstructs an internal image, it is this internal image that you are directly perceiving, ie what you see, is not a real leaf, but a mental representation of a leaf

so what you see, IS your personal illusion

 

[GOD]

"yes it does, it is a common effect of regular entheogen use"

Why dont you forget the victim , poor little me roll and do some objective research . And for fucks sake stop spreading anti drug propoganda .

What the fuck difference does it matter if i`m seeing the light thats reflected / emmited by my computer or actualy seeing it . Its still there and it is what it is . Quit talking shit and close your eyes and feel your computer with your hands . Is it not there ? Is it a different shape ? Doesnt it work anymore . You are talking like a kid who thinks when he puts his hands over his eyes that no one can see him .

Thats what i mean about taking a real trip . Stop talking irelevant theoretical crap and be .

 

[maxfreakout]

Why dont you forget the victim , poor little me roll and do some objective research . And for fucks sake stop spreading anti drug propoganda .

HPPD exists, i have experienced it, many people who post on theis forum have experienced it, a vast amount of scientific research has been done into the phenomenon, and there isnt a single respected scientist, psychiatrist or psychologist who has ever claimed that it doesnt exist, and there are many psychiatrists and psychologists who have studied it, this is as much 'proof' as you could possibly get that HPPD exists.

I am pro-honesty, to deny that HPPD exists is a lie, just ask anyone who has ever experienced it themselves whether or not it exists, and they will tell you that it does, it is very real

What the fuck difference does it matter if i`m seeing the light thats reflected / emmited by my computer or actualy seeing it . Its still there and it is what it is . Quit talking shit and close your eyes and feel your computer with your hands . Is it not there ? Is it a different shape ? Doesnt it work anymore . You are talking like a kid who thinks when he puts his hands over his eyes that no one can see him .

when i close my eyes and touch the computer screen, i feel the tactile sensation in my fingers, this is not the computer screen though, it is my own tactile perception

the important point is, that there is a very strong tendency to conflate appearance with reality, ie, it is very easy to tacitly assume that the sensory appearance of an object, is the object itself, whereas this is not actually the case and the psychedelic experience demonstrates this, by loosening the habitual mental conflation between appearance and reality, psychedelic visuals and HPPD are very good examples of this, they demonstrate that what you are seeing when you look at a computer screen, is not the screen itself, but rather the appearance of the surface of a screen

when you follow this line of reasoning through, you realise that the entire phenomenal universe is actually a remarkably consistent, detailed and persistent hallucination, what you see, feel, hear etc is not external to your own mind, the layer of objective existence underneath the surfaces of material objects, is merely a hypothesis. That is why in philosophy, there exists an insoluble debate between materialism and idealism

we are living inside of a very convincing virtual reality, made out of mental constructs, objective 3D reality is a hallucination

Nothing is real

 

[maxfreakout]

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one" - Albert Einstein

 

[magickmumu]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinog ... n_disorder

This is interesting.
(from wikipedia)
It is not known how frequently people develop HPPD. In their review article, John Halpern and Harrison Pope write that "the data do not permit us to estimate, even crudely, the prevalence of ‘strict’ HPPD." These authors noted that they had not encountered it in their evaluation of 500 Native American Church members who had taken the hallucinogenic cactus peyote on at least 100 occasions.

 

[GOD]

Max you are brain dead . Someone offers you a worm on a hook and you come crawling up like a dog begging for food and swallow the bait , the hook , the line and the sinker . You havent once thought about anything i have said , you are blind with your own ego . Max is right , max doesnt need to think , max doesnt need to do any research , max , max , max . If you were an honest person you would have looked at what i have said , done research , beeen objective , sceptical and neutral and wouldnt be talking so stupid shit .

I looked at what you said , i thought about it , i looked it up , i was honest , objective , critical and neutral and thats why i know your talking poor little me victim shit . Get of your high super max the drug expert horse and start thinking straight .

Imagine if someone came along with some symptoms , invented a drug damage syndrom and did a self diagnosis and pronounced themselves to be sick....... but realy they had the flu . Thats exactly what you are doing . You keep chanting your crap like a kid in a nursery school . Max is right , max doesnt have to think , max is the drug hero expert blah , blah , blah .

 

[zezt]

if a car hits you Max, you will do more than freakout...

but seriously yes. A car hitting you will be very very real. And if you are lucky you die. If not you could live your life (in worst case scenarios) crippled, brain-damaged.

Children who have had their arms blown off in the invasion of Iraq. For them reality is VERY real. There is no imagining their arms back!

 

[maxfreakout]

there is lots of information about HPPD on the internet, this is a very good forum:

http://www.hppdonline.com/forum/

Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder is a long-term visual disorder caused by taking hallucinogens. It is a recognised condition described in DSM IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) under Diagnostic Code: 292.89. The DSM is the standard manual for mental disorders used by psychologists and psychiatrists in the United States.

 

[maxfreakout]

if a car hits you Max, you will do more than freakout...

but seriously yes. A car hitting you will be very very real. And if you are lucky you die. If not you could live your life (in worst case scenarios) crippled, brain-damaged.

Children who have had their arms blown off in the invasion of Iraq. For them reality is VERY real. There is no imagining their arms back!

this ^ does not address what i said, i never said pain and lost limbs cannot happen, i am just saying that physical, objective, external reality is an illusion, and that the psychedelic experience neatly demonstrates this

i did say, the illusion is very persistent and consistent, if you could 'imagine' you had 3 arms and magicvally make an extra arm appear, this would be an inconsistency in the illusion

give LSD to an injured Iraqi child, and they will trip just like you would

 

[GOD]

"if a car hits you Max, you will do more than freakout..."

Oh Zest !!!!! I laughed my balls off . Thank you . But he still didnt understand the diference between reality and personal reality . Personal reality is not an absolute , a lot of the time its shit , like your personal reality shit about your fantasy damage from drugs .

Max your at it again , pure blah , blah ,blah . Quoting your DSM IV shit again . Did you know they have a lot of critics , did you know they say homosexuality is a mental dissorder . If their friends at the FDA stood up and said the flu was caused by hallucinogens would you preach that anti drug propoganda like you are preaching your fantasy disorder .

I`m dropping out of this thread because the world isnt flat even if that is your personal dogma . Have a nice time in the dark ages working for the FDA .