psychedelic revolution

[PsiloFlip]

In my opinion, an adult individual should have the right to alter his/her consciousness (in a responsible way) by ingesting chemical catalysts if wanted. This is what I always tend to call "the freedom of its own consciousness"
I just don't have the patience neither the time to become a Budhist or to do yoga for many years in order to find enlightment. I'm an impatient person by nature!

Nowadays, especially in Europe one can find laws that protect the right of minorities. How many signatures of people that believe in the right to alter ones own consciousness would be needed to persuade the authorities to depenalize the use of psychedelic drugs? I'm not ignorant for the dangers to society that some drugs hold but this is also true for the widely accepted and often abused drugs like alcohol, tobacco and not to forget prescription drugs.

Psychedelic friends let us unite :truce: and fight for those special 'catalysts' that some people call drugs.

I don't like the word 'drugs' it has a pejorative meaning to me because I was always told that drugs are bad.

 

[aynama]

yes.w e l l . one should be aware of all the social stuff that is forced to be connected with psychoactive plants and such. its not just easy, at least in many countries, to push for a legalization.
some would still call them bad - even if they were available to you in a supermarket...

so i vote for total understanding of what these "bad drugs" that some call psychoactives or hallusinogens, induce and cause.

so many lives have been saved by these things, is my opinnion. try telling this to some religious old heavy-weight anti-condom anti-equal rights anti-everything but crosses and guns - type...

i deeply believe by altering even a bit ones mind, it reminds us of something good. not bad.

:thumbup:

 

[DrDreez]

It would be great if we could just go to the supermarKet for some shrooms, but legalisation of hallucinogens? I don't think people in general can cope with tripping people everywhere, lots of irresponsable users who do dumb shit like driving and crashing, fighting, and various other types of dumbassing. Bummer for people like us who can use it in a responsable way. Weed on the other hand is a shame that it's not worldwide legal. It's been around longer than alcohol. Causes (virtually) no deaths, doesn't affect your driving in the manner that alcohol does, groes like hell, produces enormous amounts of oxygen (take that Kyoto), is known for it's medicinal properties, can drain heavy metals from the soil and it smells nice :grin:. Let's take this to Straatsburg héhé.

 

[PsiloFlip]

I seriously wonder if more people would trip if it is depenalized. I'm not talking about selling psychedelics at your local supermarket. I was more thinking about giving people true information about drugs (positive and negative effects; risks and benefits) instead of just saying "drugs are bad". A lot of people are scared of psychedelics anyway.

Look at the cannabis example. It has been depenalized in Belgium and maybe just in the beginning the number of users increased a bit but now everything is back to normal, in balance. Think about advantages of depenalization (quality control, knowing the number of users, organized crime looses a lot of money).

Driving should be forbidden with all drugs that affect your driving ability.

I wouln't smoke cannabis that cleaned the soil from heavy metals.

 

[DrDreez]

Informing is the best thing the state can do i'm with you on that. I wouldn't smoke weed with heavy metals in them either, but it's a good use to clean out soil. And about the cannabis law in Belgium, it's a start but it's not enough. You can carry 3 grams, if you get searched by the police and you confess that you have weed with you, it will not be taken from you if it's less than 3 grams, if more: you lose it. If you do not confess they confiscate it even if it is less than 3 grams. You may not import it, or buy, or grow it... So where the hell can you get it legal? Quality control? Bitching about the THC concentration these days. It's almost harddrugs yadiyadiya... Well: Alcohol is a harddrug, don't hear anyone bitching about that.
Driving under the influence of weed works fine for me, alcohol and driving do not go along. For me.

 

[Viaticus]

As propably most people here, I'm also all about the legalization of cannabis. When conserning whether it would be better to allow people to grow their own weed or should there be "goverment weed" sold (and taxed), there are pros and cons to both. I personally believe that I'll live to see the days of legal cannabis in most european countries.

Now hallucinogens are a different thing altogether. I seriously doubt that the majority of people can handle and/or use them wisely (just look at the situation with alcohol). But I do believe that everyone should have the right to grow their own mushies (for example) without having to worry about police smashing down your door just because that old lady next door decided to rattle on you. But if you fuck up under the influence, you have to face the consequences. Everyone should have the right to make their own educated decision, with all the facts on the table.

 

[aynama]

facts.

1937 pushed through a law against cannabis, even if you just grow it to make clothes, rope, sails, paper, etc. ILLEGAL! CRIMINAL!

after USA

the world.

and those pushing against it, in the first place (this is from a man who wrote a book about cannabis fibres, not sinsemilla enjoying) had interests in these areas, but not in hemp, but in other replacing, more earth-consuming stuff, attempt to make paper from trees, etc, even though paper from hemp is at least a 3000 year old tradition, etc.

so wrong. :lesson:

... :happy3:
can ALL these people be wrong?
http://www.elixiria.com/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=876

 

[svandamme]

i think we can take a lesson of what happend in the sixties with the coolaid acid test and dr Leary
they went balls out promoting the stuff and they were succesfull... to succesfull for the likes of the establishment. governements really do not need another hippie revolution. what they need/want is good economy , low unemployment and re-election, psychedelics will not provide this.

in most of Europe , psychedelics are relatelively available for those who really want it, shrooms can be bought, growkits, salvia, peyote , even lsd is out there.
and even if you would get busted by the po-lice, you won't get jailed ,probably won't get fined , more than likely , they will confiscate the contraband , slap on the wrist and send you home.
it's not that bad if you think about it, why rock the boat?
any attention , to these things might just awaken the bear and then where will we be?

as far as i can see, there is nothing to gain , and a lot to loose by going public with demands

 

[DrDreez]

I'm with you, but people need to wake the bear once and a while, if we want to get further. Imagine if conservative America got the power, where would we be then? Look at Italie (and that's even in europe). Or in 20 years when China knocks on our gates, what then? Change everything again? Just saying 'ooh, it's good like it is' won't cut the deal. Come up for what you believe in! Don't take no crap from the governement if it's about mind-alteration. It's your own choice!!!

 

[svandamme]

conservative america allready has the power

and one must realize , that one cannot fight the governement , especially not by means of a psychedelic revolution ...
if there is one thing to be learned form the sixties , then it's probably just that.

i stick to my point , it's not bad here in europe , and there is no reason to draw attention from unwanted areas, there is nothing to gain.

and if there is any route to take , then it's probably the route of freedom of religion and getting entheogenism accepted as an alternative spiritual movement through the european legal system ( don't try local, go european ).

and i do take care calling it a movement, not a religion , since demanding to call it a religion , would almost guarantee it getting a negative label of "cult" to the outside...

if at all anything is tried, then i suggest a great deal of subtlety and diplomacy...

in the famous words of Bruce Lee "be like water"
it's soft and fluent, you cannot hit it , but yet it penetrates rocks...

as for conservative and hard governement in the US
part of that is caused by the major backfires after the sixties there , there is very little we can do as europeans, since we are not the ones who voted for such that governement... the US citizens did that by themselves
if they want to change it as a people, then they'll have to vote the liberals in power... as far as i can tell, that's not going to happen anytime soon.... the will of the people is strange that way

 

[DrDreez]

I'm on x by the way, I'm trying 2 make this reply sound like i still have any sence left in me.
I'm not willing to start any intellectual debats, I'm 19 years old and i don't have any doubt that my opinion in 5 years will be completely different then the one now.
Everyone has his own meaning on things. I'm not an expert on his beliefs, i'm not a dummy on them either, but Timothy Leary lived in a different age and especially a different country as we do.
America hasn't got the power. In international political things (or 'world domination') maybe, but what goes on in my backyard, that's still my bussines. And America, we don't need to worry about them for long. Chinese is the English of the 21st century. What's their opinion on psychoactives?
Religion? Did i bring that up? I'm a strict atheïst, religion has kept us away from rational thinking for centuries. Spiritualism on the other hand... the concept of understanding your own mind, not doing what some book tells you to do.
I do feel much respect about the sixties, even if i wasn't even born then, but it's not the sixties anymore.
Look at the height marking and you can see where the wave finally broke and washed back.

 

[svandamme]

i'm not talking about religion in the strict sense of " i believe in that god " i'm talking about enthogenism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entheogen

the god within

reason i bring up this subject, is because freedom of religion is provided by law
only thing required, is to make that law apply to us psychonauts... now , i'm an atheist too ,and i don't see any conflict with atheism and enthogenism
those 2 concepts are not mutually exclusive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

atheism does not mean you do not believe in anything
it means that you actively believe there are no higher deities , aka gods

now Entheogenics are about the God within , and how to work it out through Psychedelics, or called Entheogens in this context. it's all about the shamanic experience... and that's very much what tripping provides...

now if the law provides freedom of religion
and shamanic use of plants and "sacraments" have been used in the last thousands of years for what we these days call tripping.. then all that's required is a case before the european court. And a good lawyer because , lets face it , no judge is ever going to rule in our favour if our main arguements are not carefully presented.


politics are indeed a problem and that's why we need to avoid aiming for the "drugs are allowed" laws, and believe me , we will never get there if that is what we aim for
politics will never be able to provide this, since they depend on the public to get voted in, and that public , in majority, is normal people who are scared of drugs and weird things. psychonauts are a very small minority and on this issue we can't overturn the politics with our votes

by going for "freedom of religion" , " freedom of belief" , we can effectively work around the solid wall called politics & established governements

and hopefully get the right to have our shamanic experiences. but we need to proove that we can use it sensible and responsiblel. as in , not giving it to kids, not going apeshit in public, taking care of set & setting and take precautions so there aren't any mishaps like people freaking out on acid, and jumping of bridges etc etc


those are the issues we need to sort out as a community
and then, once when we have a solid ground, we should be able to get our minority right claimed through court

 

[Brakkie]

I completely agree with you...

It's bullshit that some 40 year old politic idiots have the right to decide how you want to be. If I want to be drunk all day long then it's fine. But if you want to eat shrooms or take LSD or whatever you want then it's illigal. That's bullshit. Someone high on shrooms doesn't give a lot of problems. He'll just sit somewhere tripping. Some drunk will cause problems. He'll be loud and disrupt the public order. What's the f*cking diffirence. :idontknow:

The world is changing m friends. We can't do the things that we want to do. If we go against the government and tell shit about them then you get arrested for causing problems in teir work. Holy crap what's that about!

We have to fight against people like that! :truce:

 

[starsofthesea]

It's just the old deep rooted rusted prejudices from the people who don't want to look further than a nose length. let them stay in their shortminded little playground :bricks: surrounded by barbed wire.. In the meantime we can look behind the fences, furter .. they have no idea.. don't bother because when you do, then they got you..

 

[Viaticus]

It's bullshit that some 40 year old politic idiots have the right to decide how you want to be.

Luckily the future politicians grow among our generation. And they will be a lot more educated about the facts of psychedelic drugs. And I do believe that in time (which in future retrospect doesn't even seem that long) things will gradually change and I live to see the days of increasement in freedom.

I think that the main "agenda" should be to give a good example of educated and wise use of psychedelic substances. This lays a good ground for the future. Nobody want's to see an "acid head" raving about their right to use "drugs". People don't tend to take that seriously and it's very unlikely that it will lead to anything else but to the strengthening of stereotypes.

Let's prove ourselves worthy :smirk:

 

[tryptonaut]

The reason why alcohol is legal is that it is so tied to our culture that it is plainly impossible to outlaw - look at the attempt of prohibiton in the US at the beginning of the last century... The governments of this world would probably try to "protect" their citizens from alcohol as well, it's just not possible...

Although I don't like the government restricting my lifestyle, I'm relatively glad not every idiot is free to buy any drug in the supermarket - imagine a world where every dumbass is on coke and pep, oh my god (there are too many dumbasses on coke and pep already...)

 

[Brakkie]

I think that when drugs are legal the kick will be off for most people. Look at holland... There aren't as many smokers (weed) as you think. In country's like france and germany they smoke more weed! I think the same will go for other legal drugs. Most people aren't that intressted in it so they simply won't buy 'em.

Some guy called me a junk because I smoke weed every once in a while. I went into a pretty beg discussion with him :violence: Why call me junk... Then he's an alcoholic addict. In my opinion a junky is some skinny guy that doesn't do anything else then taking his harddrugs. Someone who takes softdrugs isn't a junky imo.

 

[voodoochild]

I dont think that legalizing Halluzinogens would lead to any kind of problems, in fact most people wouldnt even try it, it aint like booze, its a lifestyle.

 

[Brakkie]

True!

I mean I'd love to try something but still I'm a lil scared of the stuff. So I'm preparing myself by reading LOADS and then I mean LOADS of stuff on the net for the day that I try something new

 

[silmendil]

War on drugs = war on freedom
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