Mimosa Hostilis

[IJesusChrist]

ok.

 

[afer]

Thanks 4 the info! Protonated means positively charged, i.e. bearing a "+"? Sorry I'm no good at chemistry

 

[endlessness]

In the plant DMT is in an equilibrium between freebase and protonated form. Most is protonated under the physiological pH of the cell so a great portion is water soluble. Adding an acid would drive the equilibrium to the water soluble form. The yield would be higher when using an acid.

you got any sources for presence of freebase in natura? AFAIK it was all as protonated form in mimosa because of high pH from tannic acids and so on



Arimane.. yes we have hydrochloric acid in our stomachs but it is produced by our body.. I've yet to see hcl being sold as 'foodsafe', and even if there is, its rare.. Who knows what unsafe impurities there is in hardware store muriatic acid..

I think you shouldnt do it unless you are sure its foodsafe grade, and specially you shouldnt recommend to others.


and yes, 3x boil, one doesnt need any acid (as long as the water used doesnt have high pH, like some tap water do).. If one wants to make sure anyways, a tiny tiny pinch of vinegar or lemon juice is enough.. Acetic acid from vinegar eventually evaporates so if one concentrates the tea, it wont be incredibly acid.. Citric acid (from lemon) does not evaporate so the smaller the solution the more acid it will be

drinking concentrated ginger tea half an hour or taking some sort of ginger extract/powder will help preventing or diminishing the possible nausea.

start with 3-5 grams of mimosa.. some people like over 10, other people 3 is too much, so start low

I usually consume the maoi 20-30 mins before the mimosa (and the ginger 10-20mins before the maoi)

If using rue, one can do a few successive manske extractions on it and in the end freebase it out of the solution with sodium carbonate to get something quite pure, and free of the possibly more toxic alkaloids such as vasicine and vasicinone.

 

[afer]

toxic alkaloids such as vasicine and vasicinone.

Wow that's something new to me, could you please provide some links on it?

 

[endlessness]

toxic alkaloids such as vasicine and vasicinone.

Wow that's something new to me, could you please provide some links on it?

well you should quote me completely.. the 'possibly' was important there

here's words from jonathan ott:

Syrian rue seeds also contain significant levels of the uterotonic quinazoline alkaloids vasicine (peganine) and vasicinone, accounting for ethnomedicinal use of these seeds as an abortifacient.(5,17,22) Since these alkaloids are much less soluble in water than are the B-carbolines, once again making an aqueous infusion will effect a separation, leaving the bulk of the quinazoline alkaloids behind in the seed residue, amounting to lower toxicity, especially significant for women, particularly if they are pregnant.

at
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n3/06332ott.html

but im not sure about the part that says a water extraction will get rid of them.. I do know however, that different people have made chemical analysis of manske-extracted harmalas (if im not mistaken one was shulgin, the other a member of the Nexus), and they were completely clean of these 'other' alkaloids.


But dont get too worried about it, its more of a recomendation to women and in special pregnant women.. If you google vasicine/vasicinone you also see that they have certain medicinal properties too...

In any case, anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that extracting the harmalas diminishes nausea and other negative somatic effects, and not to mention the fact one can make a food safe extraction of harmalas (only need salt, water, vinegar and sodium carbonate which can be made by putting sodium bicarbonate in the oven).

The biggest problem of this extraction is the filtering, which is a pain. But one should not filter until the very last part..

How to extract harmalas from rue:

Grind harmalas, boil 3x vinegar, separate liquid throwing solids out. Decant in the fridge, throwing bottom sediments and keeping liquid. Saturate with salt (around 30g salt per liter water).. dont worry too much wont hurt, it will be eliminated afterwards.

Then decant again in the fridge overnight. Then this time whatever decants/precipitates is the alkaloids (in hcl salt form) and salt and oils and other 'contamination' (no prob). Throw out as much of the liquid as possible, and then add more fresh warm water to redissolve the harmala salts... Decant overnight again (throwing away the bottom solids if theres any) . Repeat the salt-saturating step.. Do this total of 3x..

Then, in the last part one redissolves the harmala hcl that precipitated out of the salt saturated solution, and instead of saturating with salt, this time one adds the base until the whole thing changes colour, and then add a bit more just to make sure (dont worry one doesnt need to be exact, as long as all the colour changed). This time it will be freebase harmalas precipitating. Decant overnight in fridge again, throw out liquid, and only filter the very last part, keepign whatever stays on top of your filter.

enjoy, its a beautiful process with the colours changing and all

if one is so inclined its possible even to separate harmine and harmaline this way. The ph at which they become freebase is slightly different (dont know the numbers off the top of my head now), so one can slowly add sodium carbonate to a desired pH, let precipitate and filter one of them, then add more sodium carbonate and get the other one out. If you guys are interested I can check out the exact info (or you can find it yourselves)

 

[Bastiaan]

I'd agree with Jahvisions and use lemon juice.
When the ph of the water is lowered, the alkaloids are more easily extracted.
I did it with lemon juice too.
3 extractions added together and, what I don't see mentioned anywhere but maybe it's because it's so straight forward, you can 'boil' the stuff down a little to decrease the volume.
Don't actually let it boil though, keep the temperature modest to avoid potency loss.
May take a while before the volume is decreased, an hour or so perhaps.
I wouldn't screw around with lye or anything for oral ingestion.. I'd only use this for extraction of freebase..

 

[afer]

A bit offtopic, but still:

How would you compare Peganum harmala and Banisteriopsis caapi in terms of the side effects?
By side effects I understand nausea, sleepiness, hypo/hypertension, and other subjectively uncomfortable sensations