lsd and schizophrenia-like psychosis

[wdte]

Are you sure that LSD is used to know that ? I thought LSD was scheduled in the entire world, so I don't think doctors can administer it to psychotic peoples.

i don't know if anyone is using it like that now, but i read about it. i'll try to find it in english.
it's rather not that it is used, but it can be. and it has been in some research

 

[KrispedKritter]

Yeah, it has been, but it wasn't really the purpose of it, and the practice was disabandoned because of the, in relation other LSD-risks, very high risk of "bad outcomes". Well, no offense to your friend, but he does sound a bit crazy (but so do I, so that's fine). Does he have many person which he likes, and remembers, unlike yourself? Rationally irrationally, looking at the whole situation produces a bout of angst in the pit of my stomach, even though there is hope. LSD can do wonders, but it can also unravel them.

Before, didn't you mention he was on antidepressants of some kind, or did I get that mixed up with some other thread?

 

[wdte]

when you face such things, nothing is wrong with sounding crazy :wink:
those weren't antidepressants. some medicine at the beggining that's good for amphetamine-connected problems. later - homeopathic thing, which has an antipsychotic effect.
to the best of my knowledge, antidepressants can cause horrible consequences if combined with lsd.

Does he have many person which he likes, and remembers, unlike yourself?

i'm not sure if got it right. do you mean if there are people different from him whom he likes and remembers?

 

[KrispedKritter]

Right, which was why I was asking. Looked back on the thread, but dunno who nervoheel is, can't seem to find it.

What I meant was, are there many people around him of which he likes and would remember upon seeing, and would those persons be willing to spend time with a person to live out the madman within him in order to work towards tranquility? You mentioned that he didn't recognize yourself upon visitation ...

 

[wdte]

Right, which was why I was asking. Looked back on the thread, but dunno who nervoheel is, can't seem to find it.

What I meant was, are there many people around him of which he likes and would remember upon seeing, and would those persons be willing to spend time with a person to live out the madman within him in order to work towards tranquility? You mentioned that he didn't recognize yourself upon visitation ...

really, i think you misunderstood me at some point. he does remember things. his memory is not as sharp as usual, but nothing shocking. common state for derealisation. he doesn't really need to live out this anymore. a couple of days have passed and he kinda solved all the disturbing matters. now all his psychotic thinking is about telling someone about what he experienced. before he was feeling that psychosis can't go away in any near future, but now one emotional and verbal breakthrough and, probably, everything will become okay in some rather short period of time. i think that a month would be enough.
i don't remember saying he didn't recognise me. maybe i had a typing error. where did you find it?
and what do you mean visitation? he's not in a hospital or something. he's studying, visiting university, going out, but not really frequently.

 

[HermesTrismegistus]

i don't remember saying he didn't recognise me. maybe i had a typing error. where did you find it?
and what do you mean visitation? he's not in a hospital or something. he's studying, visiting university, going out, but not really frequently.

I think he's reffering to my post....

 

[KrispedKritter]

Possibly, I was also fairly zonked when I was writing (hence the nice unnecessary flow of it all), so I might have just mixed it up with another thread, or something from a book, or another dimension.

Take it easy with your friend; I'm sure it will work out in the positive direction, but I'd still advise (what, the 6th? time now or so, just from me) against High doses of LSD. I've never seen anything but negative reactions to it, which is somewhat odd considering the dosage during the 60s.

 

[BrainEater]

i don't know how appropriate it is to mention that here, but i truly believe somehow that the most deadly and ultimate illusion is the separation from god. now even if your friend doesn't believe in god, it still makes a difference. it's like what/who we think god is and our lives, what we experienced, who we think we are... that all can make a deadly coctail that we can use to kill ourselves. the point i am trying to make is that at least sometimes it seemed like this to me, that some people are killing themselves while not being aware of it. like a subconscious self-sabotage mechanism. that's some nasty shit mostly and it's not always easy to know where it comes from....
maybe tell your friend of the possibility to see everything as an opportunity to learn. maybe he has experienced lots of shit to learn from already, but not enough (felt) time to really handle it... i can't really describe it very well, unfortunately, i hope you know what i mean...i had thought of something like that before, that's why i straight reccommended meditation...
mind you, maybe you can think of the possibility and benefits of talking a little bit about the biases of your friend
towards meditation... maybe you will hear something "suspicious" or so....
i think it somehow relates, because it seems your friend is somewhat on a path of self-realization or so...
if it's relevant for your friend i would be glad if it helped. if not, then just ignore it. 8) :wink:


peace

 

[wdte]

i don't know how appropriate it is to mention that here, but i truly believe somehow that the most deadly and ultimate illusion is the separation from god. now even if your friend doesn't believe in god, it still makes a difference. it's like what/who we think god is and our lives, what we experienced, who we think we are... that all can make a deadly coctail that we can use to kill ourselves. the point i am trying to make is that at least sometimes it seemed like this to me, that some people are killing themselves while not being aware of it. like a subconscious self-sabotage mechanism. that's some nasty shit mostly and it's not always easy to know where it comes from....
maybe tell your friend of the possibility to see everything as an opportunity to learn. maybe he has experienced lots of shit to learn from already, but not enough (felt) time to really handle it... i can't really describe it very well, unfortunately, i hope you know what i mean...i had thought of something like that before, that's why i straight reccommended meditation...
mind you, maybe you can think of the possibility and benefits of talking a little bit about the biases of your friend
towards meditation... maybe you will hear something "suspicious" or so....
i think it somehow relates, because it seems your friend is somewhat on a path of self-realization or so...
if it's relevant for your friend i would be glad if it helped. if not, then just ignore it. 8) :wink:


peace

interesting post :wink:
he definitely doesn't have the illusion of the separation from god. however, i wouldn't say he believes in god in the common meaning of this word. he gained really a lot from what happened to him and he understands why. when it stops, i'll make a post here presenting an interesting point of view on psychosis, explaining why people are experiencing it and why it is exactly like that. i'll also try to connect it with adminesterring psychoactive substances, especially try to define the similiraties and differences between these two states.
probably meditation is not for him, because he doesn't have any spiritual problems and he's over this stage. all his spiritual beleifs were associated with discovering a faith individual for everybody and he felt that he can discover it for himself by taking psychedelics. as he did, he consequently doesn't really have problems here

 

[IJesusChrist]

Ok since you stuck around for a bit more than a one time post and have read and responded with some actual thought on the subject, I will put some effort into replying to you.

Your friend sounds like a familiar story. Schizophrenia is a physical difference in the brain - something is going on in the brain that the majority of the population doesn't experience normally / regularily and (I believe) cannot relate to. Psychosis like symptoms can stem from psychological experiences - i.e. there is not a physical change to the neurological "structure" of the brain - meaning thought itself is responsible, not the physical make up of how your brain functions. This realization in conjunction to what brain eater is saying (the more spiritual side of things) is extremely important.

The problem with these subjects is how do we know that your friend is experiencing the oncoming of schizophrenia (a physical difference in the brain) or simply having trouble dealing with reality's wake up call? The identification of which scenario is going to play out could be the difference between putting your friend in a dissociation with the world, or the possibility of a breakthrough in which he realized what exactly he is 'missing' or subjectively blind to.

... I feel bad for repeating this story so many god damn times to the people who have heard it, but its important. I was in your friends shoes about 5 or 6 years ago. I was having psychotic behavior, swinging thoughts, racing logic, delusions etc while high on marijuana. Due to my inability to u nderstand what was going on, I became interested in psychology and beyond - I eventually took psilocybin one night. It was dreadful [extremely agonizing]. I didn't learn jack shit to improve my well being. In fact, it made the problem incredibly hard to deal with. I had to put off marijuana, even alcohol would bring on psychotic delusions. An important thing was that these thoughts weren't really untrue, the context and the feeling that accompanied them were just extremely unpleasant. My ambition to learn and recover from my psychological position drove me to this site and others in a quest for .what the fuck. was happening to me.

To be honest, I still cannot say what happened, what is happening, or what to make of it all. However, on my journey from then to now created a deep understanding of the duality of my mind and existance. I became a more balanced person with meditation, reading, and a lot of questions slowly being answered (or the realization that the questions can't be answered). Perhaps if I had not had the ambition to understand and continue to experience (and fight) with the going-ons in my head, I may have been administered anti-psychotics and put in a hospital and eternally thinking I had a 'disorder'. I do not know if that would have been an alternate path or not, I do not know these things!

The important thing is to not take acid or mushrooms with the expectation of curing yourself or his-self... You must have no expectations, and be ready for anything. A bad trip while high is quite uncomfortable, but a a bad trip while your sober is on a different level - you can no longer simply put it in the back of your mind as an odd or bad experience - it becomes your experience.

BOY DON'T I SOUND LIKE THE WORST.

I don't like saying that kind of stuff, I think it may set you off on the wrong track, or derail you into fear. I don't want that, but I do want this to be known.

Having said all that - I hadn't had euphoria in about 4 years after the negativity started. One day I tripped, but prior to ingestion I said "I want to experience love". I was blasted with cascading hearts, love, warmth, motherly love and care. I felt taken care of, completely safe, happy, joyful, giggling. Once I came down I felt an understanding I hadn't seen before. All along I was searching for healing and love deep within the pain and fear. If I had only turned around, and looked somewhere else, would I have been presented with it so much sooner.

The duality of the mind is... well, very powerful.

So what is the summation of all this? I don't know. The difference between my psychotic state and a schizophrenic is I would not have believed if Jesus suddenly appeared to me and told me to do things. A schizophrenic would be much more likely to believe such an image.

 

[HermesTrismegistus]

IJesusChrist, don't you think you have helped your self just because you got fascinated by psychology/spirituality/science etc, and are in general someone who constantly try's to change his perspective on all kind of subjects? Of course psychedelics etc seem to have helped you, me and plenty of others, but i notice that many that had healing experience always also had a attitude which was curious enough to walk trough those doors which where opened by psychedelics and most of the time those people also had some sort of fascination to find them selfs back again.

 

[wdte]

IJesusChrist,
you know, this stuff about physical changes in the brain have just been observed as the difference between regular condition and schizophrenic. those changes may be a result of the processes in the mind and i suppose that they can be reversed, but we don't know how. the thing about psychiatry is that they don't know what they're dealing with, but they prefer to tell people they know. the worst thing is that there's barely any alternative to it. i'll definetely go in for deep research in future to find out more facts about schizophrenia.

The problem with these subjects is how do we know that your friend is experiencing the oncoming of schizophrenia (a physical difference in the brain) or simply having trouble dealing with reality's wake up call?

he says that he's on his way to recovery, the symptoms become milder, he's better at controling himself. he found a way to come to terms with his unconsciousness and it comes to terms with consciousness in return. it's a way of living through the faults of your personality with the aim to become a person you've always wanted to be, achieving the qualities that weren't gained because the surrounding world isn't always very kind. i'll try to explain why it seems so odd for people and some subtleties later. by the way, in my opinion, schizophrenia is always the trouble of dealing with reality's wake up call.

The important thing is to not take acid or mushrooms with the expectation of curing yourself or his-self... You must have no expectations, and be ready for anything. A bad trip while high is quite uncomfortable, but a a bad trip while your sober is on a different level - you can no longer simply put it in the back of your mind as an odd or bad experience - it becomes your experience.

i would view acid as a catalyst of the psychosis that is very good at overcoming certain type of problems, a way to understand it better and come to terms with it and something to give you some hope and faith to hold on when everything else fails. i believe that suddenly stopping a psychosis is one of the worst things to do. that may make a person stuck in semi-reconstructed personality with certain qualities and abilities simply cut off. the only way is to overcome the fear of goind mad and come through it as a brave and understanding person.
i think that schizophrenics cannot face the psychosis as the ultimate fear of their own and accept it as a part of them that has been hidden for a long time (i mean not the symptoms, but the inner problems that have taken odd and horrible form). i would determine schizophrenics as people who haven't stood up to the challanges that they have faced during the psychosis and "decided" to stay in the state of irreality.

All along I was searching for healing and love deep within the pain and fear. If I had only turned around, and looked somewhere else, would I have been presented with it so much sooner.

maybe that was the aim, to learn that what you're looking is so close that you don't even know about it, to see things differently and realise the importance of how you view things, not what they are objectively? we're all humans and by default cannot be objective. so, it's choosing which kind subjectivety you adopt.

 

[BrainEater]

i just wanted to say a few more things... as i suggested hypnosis as a valuable method for example for catalyzing self-healing... hence i would say sleep and dreaming can do a lot of good things if used right, whatever that means, lol...
i am also saying this, because it was said, that your friend had entered the state of psychosis (whata pun lol sorry )
while on amphetamines... so i concluded that maybe it is in an influence that he fucked with his natural biological rhythm
and maybe also symbollically with his "natural being" or something like that...
but well of course it can be seen symbollically for him having wanted desperately a change or so but he couldn't do it in the way he imagined at that time or so.... i am only speculating, but think about it...
so i suppose what i can suggest is to dig a little bit into how and what he would have liked to be and what he feels what he likes now etc etc ... or confront him with that kind of subject or so it in a little bit more indirect way .... something like that...
sometimes there are "coincidental" signs that can tell you or point towards "the truth" or so whatever that may be...
sometimes more and sometimes less obvious..


think about this possibility: maybe even while awake, on a certain level of the psyche you could still be asleep... same like lucid dreaming just vice versa...
and well dreaming in general ... i think it's indeed what wdte said just before me.... how we imagine who/what we can be...
it's like consciousness and the different levels of sub- and unconsciousness work on themselves, merge and possibly purify themselves in order to learn/evolve or so....
this natural process for change and evolution from a higher plane (dreaming) can be used if you understand it ... or to put it in other words... if you understand yourself.. :wink:

also i would say sometimes it's like we have too much stress or pressure and hence become sick... an example for that on a psychological level... and a lot of things can be very psychological, like time for example... is that you could have too much choices or not enough choices maybe also....
often it can help to be able to just let go of it all for a short time or longer.... and to laugh about yourself....to not take the world or yourself so seriously at times also helps.
i hope you get my point or it makes some sense or so. :shock: :lol:


peace

 

[IJesusChrist]

Hermes, I don't quite know what you are saying.

And wdte, your friend is truly lucky to have someone like you to talk to about this. If he hadn't had an outlet of a physical person, the chances of healing are much slimmer. Especially a friend - not a psychiatrist (like you said).

Although I do not like to think that schizophrenia is simply the product of stress + the inability to 'realize' things. I don't think we know enough about it yet to make that kind of claim. I hands in both pools at the moment, so to speak, with the causes and eventual treatment of schizophrenia. I believe doctors and psychiatrists know a lot, but those of us who have seen it and come back know quite a bit as well. If only more psychiatrists and psychologists had the experiences themselves :wink:

 

[wdte]

hey guys,
a friend of mine became interested in the meditation techniques useful for him. could you give some advice?

 

[zezt]

hey guys,
a friend of mine became interested in the meditation techniques useful for him. could you give some advice?

I personally distrust Eastern forms of meditation. Their philosophy is about escaping nature. many people who get into 'meditation' begin thinking and speaking about thinking as some kind of enemy they need to get beyond, and so will spend hours and spend money on meditation retreats to get these experiences of what they consider bliss or getting to some goal of never-ending-bliss-beyond-thought

But if we DIDN't have thinking you wouldn't be able to work out this is all a big con! IE., it is both seeing, which is insight, and then you think about it. it is a continuum of intelligence, not one part of your being in war with another part.

I think...BOTh the Western and Eastern ideologies come from elite groups who try and divide and control us, and this also means within as well as without. Get me. With the western version their religion tells you your a sinner, and you NEED their authority to 'save' yourself from yourself.

In the secular world they do away with that religious dogma and then introduce their own brand. They tell us we are robots--bags of chemicals, and if our chemicals are 'unbalanced' we need their authority to treat us and get us back to 'normal'. What is 'normal'. believing what they tell us--thet we are robots, that animals are robots, that nature is mechanical and has no meaning, etc.

See how it works.

I need BOTH intuition and insight AND thinking to work this out and explain

With the Eastern they like said blame 'thinking' and then offer 'meditation' so you sit and try and not think. So this is basically trying to sedate you and get you not to look and analyze the very matrix being pulled around and in you.

So after all this IS there a meditation I would agree with?

First let me look at the etymology of that term (always checkout the words being used--the language_

meditation Look up meditation at Dictionary.com
c.1200, "contemplation; devout preoccupation; devotions, prayer," from L. meditationem (nom. meditatio), from pp. stem of meditari "to meditate, to think over, consider," frequentative form from PIE root *med- "to measure, limit, consider, advise" (cf. Gk. medesthai "think about," medon "ruler," L. modus "measure, manner," modestus "moderate," modernus "modern," mederi "to heal," medicus "physician," Skt. midiur "I judge, estimate," Welsh meddwl "mind, thinking," Goth. miton, O.E. metan "to measure;" also see medical). Meaning "discourse on a subject" is early 14c.; meaning "act of meditating, continuous calm thought upon some subject" is from late 14c.

I would say not to divide 'meditation' from life. That it is better to realize something---realize that the powers-that-be manipulate you via divide and control. A great deal of this happens in your school years which we HAVE to attend by force of their law! So for me, if we have to call it A term, authentic meditation is the un-doing of the spell the culture has put on us since being kids, and via its mass media, propaganda, and occultism. It is allowing yourself freedom to see, and think, and feel, and imagine.

 

[wdte]

really, what does it have to do with what i've written?
it's not about religion, it's about a technique that helps learning to control yourself and overcome the psychosis. and i know for sure that it does, unlike visiting the church and waiting for god's will. nothing wrong with that, a choice everyone makes by himself, but it's not a way of direct self-help.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Ok Heres a great post wdte:

http://www.highexistence.com/advanced-meditation-guide/

 

[zezt]

really, what does it have to do with what i've written?
it's not about religion, it's about a technique that helps learning to control yourself and overcome the psychosis. and i know for sure that it does, unlike visiting the church and waiting for god's will. nothing wrong with that, a choice everyone makes by himself, but it's not a way of direct self-help.

everything is interconnected. you cant say one subject has nothing to do with another. obvious---otherwise i wouldn't have mentioned it. maybe one day you will understand. who knows.

 

[wdte]

IJesusChrist, thank you.
zezt, what you've written is off-topic. religious flaming is not useful for finding out about meditation to help with psychosis.