Liquid LSD -> DMT trip?

[Abraxis]

So, almost a year back now i was experimenting with hallucinogenic substances, moving my way up the chain until i managed to get my hands on some Liquid Acid.

Now i was told by my source that each drop was "A hit and a half" (probably just trying to sound cool) and also cautioned against doing more than one in the same night. They came to me in the form of fuzzy peaches individually wrapped in tin foil, all done that night.

Now my friends and i all ate one each, then waited. one of them started tripping out, the other three of us were only seeing minor visuals and a bit of euphoria. So we took another and waited. the other two start tripping out. All i get is some neat vivid colours and a little more euphoria but still a totally sober perspective (sorta like being sober and wearing those drunk glasses as apposed to being drunk). So, fed up, i go and take another two; as it had been 3 hours since the first.

After taking these two, it hit me in just a couple of minutes. it felt just like i'd read an acid trip should feel. A couple hours later, still getting more and more intense, i found my budy alone in the kitchen smoking weed, so we smoked a bowl together. This is when the fun ended.

I started talking, only he was saying what i was supposed to be saying, then the cat tripped me out, so i decided to go up to my room and ride it out. I lay in my bed, eventually (after an hour or two) becoming so mindfucked i couldn't hold a thought for a fraction of a second. I'd get up for something, in the middle of getting up i'd wonder what i was doing and why i was about to sit down, twitching the whole time, walking from this corner to that with no purpose other then split second inclinations.

so i finally manage to get back into bed, and after a couple minutes of really very intense suffering. I sorta fall asleep, but i still feel conscious. This is when the DMT trip starts.

I didn't even know anything about DMT at the time. Yesterday i read about the typical DMT trip on wiki (as explained by Terence McKenna) and it was exactly the same as this part of my acid trip, like, he even got the quotes right.

In case anyone is unfamiliar, you can find it here under the "Description" heading

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Elves

so i was wondering if any of you have ever had this trip, And also if anyone has any insight into my experience.

P.s. I had been drinking a 2 letter carton of chocolate milk through the earlier part of the trip without thinking. i dont know if that matters.
and this whole thing was over the course of about 11-12 hours[/url]

 

[mysticwarrior]

Welcome Abraxis

I have never seen the Machine Elves my self, but i have read many reports where people have seen these machine elves. So it is a common experience, but i only read reports from people who smoked pure DMT.... And if i understand everything you said, your then saying that you dreamed about them, did you? That's a interesting thing

Greets,
Mystic.

 

[Abraxis]

well, i doubt sleep would have been possible with so much LSD in my system at the time. It just fealt like i had lost consciousness, but i was awake for it, lol, it's difficult to explain. Like a lucid dream perhaps?

 

[mysticwarrior]

well, i doubt sleep would have been possible with so much LSD in my system at the time. It just fealt like i had lost consciousness, but i was awake for it, lol, it's difficult to explain. Like a lucid dream perhaps?

It could off course have been a lucid dream or a out of body experience, but i think your experience went a little deeper. I never try'd a huge dosis of acid, so i really don't know much about it. But it sounds interesting, i start wondering why so many people are seeing these machine elves.. Are you sure you have never heart anything about them before?

 

[Abraxis]

positive, though at the time they did feel incredibly familiar, like seeing a really good, old friend you'd somehow forgot about, exactly like the feeling you get whenever you have a dejavu

though i am positive i'd never heard anything about them before. which is why i was so so weirded out when i read the trip description.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I'll try to explain what I think happened. DMT is what makes you dream, and also (in my unedcuated guess) it also incorporates "the imagination" to seeing. I belive your mind took a toll and started releasing DMT, either just very large amounts, or was releasing it in odd areas of the brain, making hallucinations.
I have genuinely hallucinated on weed and mushrooms, both times I was extremely tired, and had been either reading or trying to sleep for >1 hour. It may be possible (however I don't know anything about this) that DMT can be released while awake... (well... schizophrenia this may happen?)

But yeah, I think your brain was just trying to transition into sleep, and under the intense circumstances, was unable to "sleep" before you started to dream
You're lucky. Cherish that experience, however intense it was.

BTW my hallucinations were very odd. Not interactions, my sheets on my just turned into a large picture, and suddenly I was on the moon. I stared for a while, and it started to become more and more real, I shut my eyes and it went away, and I looked again, and it came again... Was very weird. That was only really high and really tired.
Mushrooms... Didn't technically hallucinate. Only with my eyes shut I saw a vast landscape of green and black waves and drops, hard to describe, not a true hallucination... most people have something like this..

 

[DaZeD]

Wow, that's pretty strange, to say the least.
Well, probably it's like Jesus said (the one above my comment, not the other one), that your brain just produced it, and you went into some dream state, only, I don't have a clue why your brain produces/releases such big amounts of DMT at once.

Heh, or,.... maybe you where actually dying. , people who have near death experiences produce also lots of DMT while having the experience.I wonder what happens if you die, all that DMT at once.Is the soul nothing more then a combination of brain activity and chemicals?

Actually, I just don't have a clue, I'm just wild guessing, but I guess it must be something like that, it's possible that you went in a dreamstate, maybe lucid, and in some unexplainable (?) way your Pineal Gland produced/released more DMT than it ussually does.

I hope it was a good experience.

 

[Entheonaut]

There can be various explanations for what you have experienced and there is no way of determining the correct theory. This is my explanation:
To me it's not suprisingly that LSD, psilocin and DMT produce similar hallucinations. They all have a similar chemical structure. All molecules with this same type of molecular structure are called tryptamines. DMT produces profound hallicinations not only because of it's potency, but also because of it's route of administration. When smoked, high blood concentrations cause intense hallucinations so if you take high doses of LSD (or other tryptamines) the experience shows a lot of similarity.
I've read about experiments where people got IV or IM injections of DMT or psilocin (4-OH-DMT) and they couldn't tell the difference.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I'm just guessing here too - simply because I've had similar but less extreme experiences. It is possible to hallucinate completely sober, obviously. Schizophrenics do it on a daily basis, maybe its because of a combination of disorders + and overactive pineal gland? I'm uneducated in this so don't take anything I say as fact...
However, under extreme conditions, like the amount of acid(are u sure?) that you took I can see your brain thinking its dieing, and releasing DMT, or just a complete backwardness and DMT being produced for stress.
Or, what I think is most likely is you were just extremely tired to begin with, and then not being able to sleep with the additive affect of a psychoactive, your brain justs aid fuck it and turned on the dream state.
We probably won't know, but it's still cool, and don't worry. You're not schizo lol.

 

[Forkbender]

DMT is what makes you dream, and also (in my unedcuated guess) it also incorporates "the imagination" to seeing.

This is a hypothesis, and hasn't been proven conclusively. With current technology it is impossible to detect DMT in the living human brain.

 

[Brugmansia]

Last weekend I met an owl with big eyes and he gave me the message "Go back, do what you have to do, it's not your lack of knowledge, but lack of will" I knew where he was refering to. I had no chance to interact back, he left no space for me to debate with him, he vanished immediately. He appeared out of the ultra dimensional fractals and colours, in where he got his composition and shape from, and after his message he readily melted back into this universe with no solid form. But appearently, he was very well aware that certain challanges in the society system does add goodness to the self.

LSD is similar in many ways to DMT, especially the form of fractals, shapes and forms. I'd say LSD is human mathematical, DMT is alien mathematical. LSD remains one in touch with what he has known before. DMT temporarly ereases everything. The difference is the intensity and the extremly rapid onset, it's a VISUAL BOMB!

I also had hawks in an earlier experience with no carrying message. I think the entities are coming in the form, specie or shape which is 'YOU'. The real you.

If Terence encountered elves, he must have had a heart full of love, well he had. :wink: I guess we can and may all end up in encountering the elves if we'd be truly love.

I guess the hawk and the owl describe pretty much good who I am in my deepest bottom. I got a few energy fields of burning sexual neuroses which shivered me to atomic joyness. It displayed to me, that lust overpowers love and it's a part of the construction of my ego. To experience love in it's fullest form, I should break this programmed data of me. But that'd mean, yes, changing my real self. I realised that one should hold a certain degree of his ego throughout life, because the self needs ego energy for selfvalue. A true egoless mind would end up commiting suicide.

I underestimated DMT, it is much more than psychedelic pleasure and definitely left a mark on me after last Saturday. The ego is healthy, but it should be as big as enough for feeding the self value, not for domination or greed.

This was the actual limit for me, anything over this line will be too much. The same day I realised that deliriants are not for human consumption.

 

[Forkbender]

Nice! Congrats.

 

[Abraxis]

To answer how much LSD i had done, i really don't have the slightest clue, who knows how well the guy diluted it, who knows how well it kept in the fuzzy peaches. there is just so much room for human error or capitalistic ulterior motives or schemes on it's way to coming into my possession that it's really impossible to judge.
------------
After thoroughly going over everything and finding some really neat sources. The closest explanation that seems right to me is just a natural release of DMT caused by intense stress, trauma... After all, i shattered my pelvis and dislocated my leg skiing once which put me in the hospital for several months, quite painful. but i'd always place the acid as the worst experience of my life

Either way, there would really be no end or purpose to speculating further at this point and i think acquiring DMT will be required to further any understanding in the matter. Thankyou you for your suggestions though!

One thing of interest i can offer in thanks is this neat little package i found in torrent format. it contains Rick Strassman's latest book "The spirit molecule" and an interview with him. several interviews and lectures by Terence McKenna as well as some written work by him (i don't as yet have the proper formating to view it). Other works, uncludeing written acounts of Ayahuasca experiences with shamans. A thorough guide on acquiring DMT rich plants and extracting it. The doors of perception by Aldous Huxley...

It pretty much has everything you could ever know about psychedelics from the perspective of scientists, philosophers and new age shamans.

i dunno if i can post a link here, if i can let know and I'll edit it in

For now PM me for it!

 

[IJesusChrist]

dude jsut take enough shrooms after your DMT trip and you;ll understand

 

[Hyperion1980]

DMT can be released by the pineal gland. The pineal gland is most active around 5 - 6 AM in the morning. It is endogenous DMT(every brain on earth can make it). According to Dr. Strassmans book "DMT - The spirit molecule". Perhaps your LSD experience initiated the release of endogenous DMT. What was the time of the experience? was it in the early morning?

 

[Forkbender]

^what page?

 

[Faust]

DMT can be released by the pineal gland. The pineal gland is most active around 5 - 6 AM in the morning. It is endogenous DMT(every brain on earth can make it). According to Dr. Strassmans book "DMT - The spirit molecule". Perhaps your LSD experience initiated the release of endogenous DMT. What was the time of the experience? was it in the early morning?

You mix things up. The pineal gland makes melatonin which works as an internal sleep/wake regulator. It produces the most melatonin around 5 - 6 AM in the morning, and it's broken down again when it get's light again.

Strassman merely proposed a theory that the pineal gland míght be involved in making DMT, there's no proof for it whatsoever. He figured it might be able to make it cause certain chemicals are available in the gland and because it is historically seen as a third eye or similar mystical things.


On topic:

The LSD trip probably just resembled a DMT trip. Trips - especially high dose trips - are usually so strange that they only resemble other trips. Plus the descrictions are usually abstract enough for anyone to see some resemblance with their own experience.

 

[Forkbender]

^my thoughts exactly.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Last weekend I met an owl with big eyes and he gave me the message

Very interesting post. Thanks.

It should be stressed that McKenna hardly ever spoke of the entities as being of one particular shape. He described them as "self-transforming machine-elves, offering gifts in the shape of jeweled self-dribbling basketballs". I'm sure most of you who have experienced DMT or psilocybin have seen "self-transforming" shapes and figures, as well as "jeweled" objects, like walls, Tibetan prayer wheels etc.

If you take more DMT, you may get the sense of arriving in a certain space (a dome, a temple, a spaceship or some "other planet"), but the field of vision will continue to move, it's all turning and twisting and self-transforming. Now, our minds are filled with words and concepts, and they will be projected into that whirlpool of vision. Hence you'll be inclined to see faces, eyes, the self-transforming objects turn into self-luminous and seemingly independent beings, entities. If you are a learned person, these beings may start imparting sacred wisdom unto you, "telepathically". It's not really telepathy, as in sending out or receiving a signal from a distance, as it all takes place in the brain, or nervous system rather, there's just a temporary division between the rational you, the ego, and the part of you that's dreaming, and there's interaction between the two, usually bringing about harmony and healing).

McKenna was well versed in Irish fairy lore, and so it is not surprising that he explained his experiences in terms of having an encounter with "little people", "gnomes", "elves", all terms he regularly used in his lectures. He saw UFO's, but never met the aliens. When I trip, I'm constantly reminded of the Indian gods and goddesses with their thousands of arms and multiple heads, all adorned with golden helmets beset with jewels, and dressed in fine silk garments, more radiant than a thousand suns... But since I do not believe in subtle entities anymore, including gods, goddesses, ancestors, angels and fairies, I'm not inclined to interpret my psychedelic visions in terms of any type of ontologically existing beings. But I know I'll see them. Just as dreams mainly feature other human beings (we always or mainly interact with others in our dreams) strong psychedelic experiences will involve interaction with others too.

 

[DaZeD]

Just as dreams mainly feature other human beings (we always or mainly interact with others in our dreams) strong psychedelic experiences will involve interaction with others too.

Where did you get that, the part that dreams and deep psychedelic experiences involve interaction with other people?

Cause that sounds very interesting, I felt like that many times, even when you think bad about someone, or the way around, you can often actually feel that, I have it a lot, that I think something, but before I can talk, someone else, ussually someone that I'm close with, often my GF says the exact thing, sometimes so explicit, that there aint no doubt that it's not coincidentally, like your thoughts are sent into the universe and are accessible to other beings to process, like we are all sharing our thoughts subconsciously in some degree.

Damn!When you think about it, there are sooo many mysteries, and there's sooo much hidden knowledge, I don't think humans like we know them now, even those with the highest IQ levels and the most brilliant minds are able to understand even a fraction of it.
Yea, maybe just a tiny fraction, I guess quantum mechanics are a step in the direction of understanding it a little bit more, but on the other hand, that tiny fraction is allready pretty un-understandable.