life

[IJesusChrist]

Its been instilled in me that every decision has a right and wrong, but I'm trying to break free from that paradigm.

I think a bit too many psychedelics begins to make me think that I have a purpose much like a good fairy tale. I used to think it was good - it kept me motivated but now I don't know how healthy it can be to have a definitive future at so young an age... I'm also having an internal conflict - one I must resolve myself but would like to know others parallels in dealing with this;

I'm a student of the sciences and have the opportunity to go to graduate school. I have the chance to make large differences in the world's perceptions or at least in the sustainability of our ideologies. I can see a bright future here, money to support my own research outside of academy and also for a cushion to explore with later in life - travel and what not.

However, following that path I stay in my current country, get pounded by paradigms of consumerism, materialism, religion, abuse, and the likes. I will be continuously subjected to bureacratical non-sense in the higher educational system as well as (eventually) the federal level. I will meet a large front of opposition in my attempts to radically shift some ideas on what is right and wrong (and what defines right and wrong) no matter what field I go into.

And yet, there is plan B. I leave the country with my college degree with little intent on furthering my education. I travel the world with money to survive and move from place to place, talking and hopefully still having an impact. I experience life to the fullest and attempt to cascade what I feel needs to be spread (example the ideas on this website) to the appropriate masses. I write books, journals, what have you in an attempt to reach a larger audience quickly and effectively. But I have no promises, my chances of success are slim with a population of 7 billion - who am I to be listened to? I would only have a bachelors (almost laughable nowadays in the sciences).

It's a odd world. who has anything to contribute to my confusion or my clarity?

 

[Reasonablelogic]

Its been instilled in me that every decision has a right and wrong, but I'm trying to break free from that paradigm.

The only difference between right, and wrong, is ignorance.

I guess I'm in the same predicament as you. I'm 18, fresh out of high school, but haven't enrolled into university yet. The curriculum doesn't fit my needs, and I'll end up in debt to a society I want no part of. Although I'm fond of mathematics, and have thoughts of studying and making it my profession, I'd rather pave my own path, set my own rules, principles.

Personally, I say go with plan B. Don't subject yourself to an institution, or a society that thrives, and operates on which you've stated. It'll be a waste of life, especially if your exploring the world of psychedelics. We all know that the culture, and ideologies of such institutions, are no place for a free spirit to operate within. It doesn't matter your level of generalized-institutionalized-education, unless you specifically want to operate within the institution, and such cultures. Learn from nature, she apparently has a lot more to offer.

We all have a purpose, just follow your intuition.

Just my thoughts. Hope I was able to help.

 

[Shake]

to call it ignorance is a strong way of putting it.. but yeah.. i find when you come to that realization that there is no right or wrong, you see that it is what you believe in, and the world YOU construct from everything around you that makes reality.. i have come to points in my life just like you are at and the 'current' of my surrounding and life just keeps on pushing me faster down whatever stream my indecisive ass ends up on.. Make statements to yourself about who you are, what you want for you life and write them down. what you want in life financially, socially.. what you value in this world, who you love, who loves you.. what drives you, what makes you happy and what makes you mad..

For me, i am a mess of confusion with my own life.. but lets say you know you want kids, to bring them up and teach them all the things you know but only better.. you want a wife.. are you capable of keeping a wife? what sort of wife will best suit you and not go running off with the kids a bit down the track.. these are the questions i ask myself.. once you can make a bunch of solid answers for those questions you ask yourself youll start to see a pattern emerge, "well i cant really support and raise a family being a broke enlightened hippy chemist" Maybe you dont want a family right now, then everything takes a different turn and you think about what you do want..

once you know what you want, then figure out how your going to get it.. does that coinside with what you love and are good at? then maybe that is your path?

from what i have seen, being enlightened is a beautiful thing, but if your in a country like america, dont take that tab! its like taking the blue pill or red pill in the matrix, when you wake up you realize its really just a big shit hole! i know so many dummies who cant even comprehend thoughts above happy sad bored tired horny, and some of them are the happiest people i know.. ignorance is bliss, because you construct the world around you with your thoughts.. thats my take, and i think i pretty much got as nowhere as you are now but meh..

what you reckon?

 

[Reasonablelogic]

I didn't mean to make it sound so vague. You're right, there is no difference between right, and wrong. What I meant was, ignorance is the only factor that stands in the way of understanding that sentiment.

I could understand being confused, especially living in America, surrounded by masses of people who think they know what they're doing, but are actually just as confused as you, and I, but even more so. What I did for myself this year was, I calculated how much I would need to survive on a yearly basis. If I'm able to make $37,000 a year, I'd be able to live a modest, but semi-free life. This includes traveling, decent housing, vehicle expenses, and emergencies. Just figure out how much you would need, or think you might need. There's no reason to have an abundance of money if you have no use for it.

I still don't know who I am, or what I want in life to be honest. All I know is that if I ever do speak, it'll be through art, and mathematics, just like you through science. I'm starting not to value anything on this earth, except for nature itself, and a few close ones. I've came to realize that everything I've been taught, or what has been instilled in me, is absolutely worthless. I've accepted the fact that I actually know, or knew anything at all. I find it humbling now that I realize I know nothing. I feel no more stress, no more pressure. Now I could really open up, and let nature reveal to me what she has to offer.

I don't believe you should plan your life out precisely, but it's good to have an idea of at least where you might want to end up. How you get there is probably what's shapes you. Give yourself room to grow. That, may even take a lifetime.

What if you bring these thoughts with you in psychedelic states? Maybe you could find answers, or see things in a different light. When ever I get the chance to, I will do that exact same thing.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Grover dude -

I feel you. At 18 I basically flipped the coin; heads college, tails, hut in jungle. I flipped tails... My parents started to realize I was getting radical in my wants to experience more and they kept me back. I wanted to leave, but I couldn't stand leaving them to themselves. It was a catch-22, for sure. I took a happy medium and went to college a far bit away, just enough to forget what I grew up on, but close enough so they do not become overwhelmed with loneliness (they are hermits and don't go out). (37,000 is alot!! I live OK on about 12,000. An extra 5 grand a year would be incredible - I don't know how people complain at the 30,000$ level)

Shake - I have those questions too, especially about ladies. But really, if you have those questions it means you're not ready. I'm in a pretty stable relationship right now, and she's great, but she was brought up on the polar opposite of society. The rich kids, the big house, their own car, no worries of money... She can empathize with me, but its a learning process for us both - luckily she is suprisingly passive.

All I want is a greenhouse where I can grow plants that make me question myself, but also better others. I do not want to hide away from society, I want to contribute to it, but in my own ideals - not that of the institutionalized masses. I don't want to invent some new plastic, I don't want to invent some new pesticide. I want to learn from nature's bounty, I want to explain the logic behind our own heads, I want to paint walls, I want to sky dive and swim in the amazon, I want to cure psychosis, schizophrenia, and depression, I want to give answers to those in need.

It's crazy - this world. I always get a glimpse of how weird it is once in a while and it is mind boggling. We know nothing, and I love that. But I hate the strides we take to use, abuse, and gain.

 

[ararat]

Make statements to yourself about who you are, what you want for you life and write them down. what you want in life financially, socially.. what you value in this world, who you love, who loves you.. what drives you, what makes you happy and what makes you mad..

absolutely. writing down and defining what one wants invariably will direct ones otherwise scattered energies to getting where/what you want. one single thought can determine A LOT. I thought I want to go to india. just this one thought and after some time I suddenly found myself sitting in a riksha rushing through an indian city.
I wrote down that I want to make peace with living in a city. a few days later I found myself flowing through the streets, rather than uptightedly struggling. these are almost trivial examples, but I'm convinced that it works on many levels.

reminds me that I wanted to write down my wishes and dreams and whatnot once again but always put it off for some other time...

from what i have seen, being enlightened is a beautiful thing, but if your in a country like america, dont take that tab! its like taking the blue pill or red pill in the matrix, when you wake up you realize its really just a big shit hole! i know so many dummies who cant even comprehend thoughts above happy sad bored tired horny, and some of them are the happiest people i know.. ignorance is bliss, because you construct the world around you with your thoughts.. thats my take, and i think i pretty much got as nowhere as you are now but meh..

you seem to have the idea that becoming enlightened will show you that you live in shithole. but how is it supposed to change if you don't dare to see it? ignorance won't get you very far, it acts as a major root of suffering, actually, ignorance and suffering don't seem different from each other at all.
higher states of consciousness showed me that everything is intrinsically beautiful and complete of itself. it didn't show me that I live in a shithole, it shows one that one has been wallowing in a personal shithole. there's no need to feel guilty about that, one didn't knew any better.




IJC, I'm in a rather similar situation right now. there's many thing I'd like to do, and some of them contradict themselves. the middle way seems very attractive, however that is supposed to work out. I can't give you any advice, and as you said yourself, there's no right or wrong way to do things.
I don't see myself changing the world directly, there's many dedicated people who do great work in the political, activist and scientific spheres. my calling's a different one to put it vainly.. I think spiritual dedication itself is the greatest gift one can give, in order to change the world you need to change yourself, inner change precedes outer change.

 

[Shake]

higher states of consciousness showed me that everything is intrinsically beautiful and complete of itself. it didn't show me that I live in a shithole, it shows one that one has been wallowing in a personal shithole. there's no need to feel guilty about that, one didn't knew any better.

And after that enlightening moment, you wake up in a place like texas, where everything is intrinsically beautiful ;)

dont tell anyone you took lsd, youll cop years in prison, dont you know its acid! dont you know it makes holes on your brain! that is the community type stream they all are sheep and you can play the game or you can bannana pankake style it to india (no disrespect, i really admire that).. the more awake you are the more you dislike the system and the way it all works.. thats what hippies do..

for example.. they marched against the war it veitnam.. why? something helped wake them up i think..... and after they woke up, what was their view of america and the place they lived

 

[Reasonablelogic]

IJC- Fortunately for me, my dad is understanding in my case. Yes he wants me to attend university, but at the same time supports me with my decisions. He left home at 17 and traveled most of Europe at a young age, so he understands my point of view. $37,000 is a lot in other parts of the United States, but here in NY, that's considered near poverty, it's real expensive to live here.

Shake- I find it difficult to commit to a woman. I basically prefer to be alone and have female company when I need it, other than that, I'm a introverted fellow. I'm actually sort of seeing a girl right now, she gives me my space when I need it. Having a family, or being in a serious relationship will slow me down.

BP- I guess I've never thought of it that way. I've always thought writing down what I wanted to accomplish would be somewhat limiting, or too factored and organized, sort of like a to do list. I'm a spontaneous type of person, and don't put much thought into things, I usually just have an idea of what I want, but I see it in another way now. I guess if you instill the thought in your mind, eventually you will embark on it.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I don't know what I'd do with 37 grand to be honest, unless i had a car... I don't know how I feel about buying houses either. I have really come to hate the fact that you can just buy a house and buy land and didn't have to do shit for it. I guess thats the power of money.

To be honest if I wrote everything I wanted to do down, I would still feel incomplete (I mean even if I could do them all). I think I'm missing a huge part of my life and I can't put my finger on what it is.

Banana - I've been in both states where all seems at peace and beautiful, but there is always the counter. You can't have one without the other :wink:

 

[ararat]

To be honest if I wrote everything I wanted to do down, I would still feel incomplete (I mean even if I could do them all). I think I'm missing a huge part of my life and I can't put my finger on what it is.

well it sounds like you want to feel complete.

Banana - I've been in both states where all seems at peace and beautiful, but there is always the counter. You can't have one without the other :wink:

I'm a bit hesitant to take that as a given.. it seems limiting to do so.

 

[itsscience]

I don't know the answers to your questions but I'll try to give you the benefit of the 13 or so extra years that I have lived (I seem to recall you said in a different thread that you're 22).

Its been instilled in me that every decision has a right and wrong, but I'm trying to break free from that paradigm.

This is perhaps true but can only be known if you are omnipotent. Seemingly good actions can result in evil consequences just as seemingly evil actions can result in good consequences. To know the totality of all consequences from any one single act or decision is impossible because our lives intertwine with and influence so many other lives that we can't know all consequences - this is the fundamental interconnectedness of all things. I think this is why we have instinct/intuition, follow your intuition and be true to yourself.

I think a bit too many psychedelics begins to make me think that I have a purpose much like a good fairy tale. I used to think it was good - it kept me motivated but now I don't know how healthy it can be to have a definitive future at so young an age... I'm also having an internal conflict - one I must resolve myself but would like to know others parallels in dealing with this;

The society we live in gives us no time to find ourselves. We are expected to know what we want to do with our lives before we even finish highschool. Give yourself some time to work this one out and try as many fields as you can before you force yourself to choose a career path, if you can try and travel widely and see how others live.

I'm a student of the sciences and have the opportunity to go to graduate school. I have the chance to make large differences in the world's perceptions or at least in the sustainability of our ideologies. I can see a bright future here, money to support my own research outside of academy and also for a cushion to explore with later in life - travel and what not.

However, following that path I stay in my current country, get pounded by paradigms of consumerism, materialism, religion, abuse, and the likes. I will be continuously subjected to bureacratical non-sense in the higher educational system as well as (eventually) the federal level. I will meet a large front of opposition in my attempts to radically shift some ideas on what is right and wrong (and what defines right and wrong) no matter what field I go into.

Remember that life is quite long and you will have plenty of time to visit other countries. The Phd level of qualification will open so many more doors to you than bachelor level qualification and it will also give you a much greater opportunity to effect the changes you would like to make. I doubt that Tim Leary would be anywhere near as well known if he hadn't had his qualifications. Whether you agree with the system or not you have to work with the system in order to be listened to.

And yet, there is plan B. I leave the country with my college degree with little intent on furthering my education. I travel the world with money to survive and move from place to place, talking and hopefully still having an impact. I experience life to the fullest and attempt to cascade what I feel needs to be spread (example the ideas on this website) to the appropriate masses. I write books, journals, what have you in an attempt to reach a larger audience quickly and effectively. But I have no promises, my chances of success are slim with a population of 7 billion - who am I to be listened to? I would only have a bachelors (almost laughable nowadays in the sciences).

To do this for an extended period of time requires a lot of money. Even if you work in the countries you are visiting you still need quite a bit of money, plane fares are not cheap, accomodation is not cheap in a lot of places. At the end of it you need a home, No one can walk the earth their whole lives, we as a species are a social animal. One day you'll come back to what was your home and you'll find that everyone has moved on, they'll have wives and kids, different jobs and even new friends. You'll end up feeling a bit lost and lonely, I've seen it happen to two friends both of whom travelled basically non stop for 5 or 6 years and they seem to be stuck in a life of no permanency, they've got lots of stories to tell but not many people to tell them to.

One thing I believe is that education is never a bad thing and if you have the time and ability to do further study then I say grab that opportunity, the world will still be out there when you've finished your studies.

 

[Sprax]

IJesusChrist"]Its been instilled in me that every decision has a right and wrong, but I'm trying to break free from that paradigm.

I don’t know if all people are susceptible to the idea of right and wrong. It seems to be a common way of thought in all the abrahamic religions, and to a lesser extent in the rest. Maybe it’s a religious idea. Maybe it’s just an attractive idea. Simple answers. Do you want truth or answers?

I had a mandatory class in morality some years back at university. Our teacher was an American, and typically for Americans, she believed in an absolute morality. I live somewhere in Europe. Btw, not complaining about Americans, we have our own “faults”. Just an observation.

Her argument came down to that if there wasn’t such a thing as “wrong”, we could just kill someone without that being “wrong”. To me that would seem to be the obvious conclusion. She didn’t like the conclusion and therefore decided it was wrong. I won’t get into that…

I think a bit too many psychedelics begins to make me think that I have a purpose much like a good fairy tale. I used to think it was good - it kept me motivated but now I don't know how healthy it can be to have a definitive future at so young an age... I'm also having an internal conflict - one I must resolve myself but would like to know others parallels in dealing with this;

Good or bad depending on the outcome? Lots of motivated people go far and lots are let down.

However, following that path I stay in my current country, get pounded by paradigms of consumerism, materialism, religion, abuse, and the likes. I will be continuously subjected to bureacratical non-sense in the higher educational system as well as (eventually) the federal level. I will meet a large front of opposition in my attempts to radically shift some ideas on what is right and wrong (and what defines right and wrong) no matter what field I go into.

I don’t want to discourage you to travel or live abroad, because it can be a great learning experience. I’ve lived briefly in several countries myself and traveled to several others. Having said that, the grass isn’t necessarily greener on the other side. Mostly I find it’s just different. Sometimes that may be what you need.

And yet, there is plan B. I leave the country with my college degree with little intent on furthering my education. I travel the world with money to survive and move from place to place, talking and hopefully still having an impact. I experience life to the fullest and attempt to cascade what I feel needs to be spread (example the ideas on this website) to the appropriate masses. I write books, journals, what have you in an attempt to reach a larger audience quickly and effectively. But I have no promises, my chances of success are slim with a population of 7 billion - who am I to be listened to? I would only have a bachelors (almost laughable nowadays in the sciences).

Sounds far fetched, but there are people who do it. As long as you have the money, I don’t see a reason why you shouldn’t try. I would have loved this idea some years ago but nowadays I just feel too old, which may sound strange since I’m 27. Maybe I’ve just gotten tired, or it may be that I'm older. Might as well get in out of your system while you’ve got the will, energy and enthusiasm. :)

It's a odd world. who has anything to contribute to my confusion or my clarity?

I’ve contributed text, hope that counts for something… :)

One more thing.

If you haven't lived abroad - I'm not counting vacations, even long ones stretching weeks or months - I mean lived, worked, went to high school, *integrated*, learned to understand a different culture and think differently, you should know, you can never come home. You'll never view things in the same way. Home as you know it, or thought you knew it, seizes to exist.

/end drama.

 

[Sprax]

And yet another thing

Ime: staying in one place is far more rewarding and teaches you far more than traveling. Traveling can be lonely and superficial.

Getting to know locals takes time. Possibly a lot of time. For instance, unless you're going to en English speaking place, you'll probably need to learn the local language and learn it well before you can really get to know anyone.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I hadn't replied to this originally, but I found it necessary -

I had never thought of the consequences of travelling. Itscience and sprax you both make me question the glorious nature of "travelling the globe". I come back and everyone is grown up, settled down, and serious (or at least a bit more stable). Families have started, houses have been bought, fortunes made and lost, jobs, friends, family members - all different.

I have simply experienced, and you are right - with whom to share? Of course I will have friendships that will last a life time, and memories as well, but I will no longer have a "home" - or will I?

I don't like the last part you say though, sprax, that it takes time to learn the locals, it takes time to make friends, learn the customs, etc. Of course, and that is one of the most healthy things one can experience - pure learning. You are a new born, barely able to walk in a foreign land, so to speak, and you must adapt. This is an old brain's most needed stimulus.

I will say that if I did not have a loving mother and father I would not be here - I would have left for the beaches afar, the jungles of earth, and the hills of life. I would have given up all hope to encase myself in academia and learning - I would truly have become a nomad.

Anyways, I value all of your input greatly. It has really put perspective to a once-flat picture, but believe me, this is far from being answered.

 

[BrainEater]

life is mostly defined by duality... :shock: :P :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[SEEKtheTRUTH]

All I can say is, you have a purpose in life. I don't believe in coincidence. Follow your heart, not your head - you weren't born into this world to do things you didn't want to do. You have the right to the pursuit of happiness. Do whatever makes you happy... God/nature/the universe, whatever you believe - will take care of the rest. You'll be ok. (:

 

[ophiuchus]

:D

 

[jim11]

What is life??? There are so many metaphor for life. some believe it as a dream some took it as a gift some as thought while others take it a game or others to be as gambling which one has to be lose. Everyone has his own thought regarding life depend on his own beliefs.

 

[trick]

Abit late into the thread, but i feel that i have some light to shed on the subject.

I had never thought of the consequences of travelling. Itscience and sprax you both make me question the glorious nature of "travelling the globe". I come back and everyone is grown up, settled down, and serious (or at least a bit more stable). Families have started, houses have been bought, fortunes made and lost, jobs, friends, family members - all different.

I have simply experienced, and you are right - with whom to share? Of course I will have friendships that will last a life time, and memories as well, but I will no longer have a "home" - or will I?

The situation that you mentioned is exactly what ive experienced first hand in my travels. I went off on an adventure, and i learend SO much. Not just about myself, but about others, and the world in general. I came back to find that everyone i left had continued onto the classic path set by society, and had made a fair amount of progress towards the white picket fence, american dream.
Some of them look down to me because i have nothing to show for my life(in material possessions), and others look up to me as some sort of god, because of the stories/experiences i have to share, and the principals that my adventures(so far) have left me with.
It all comes down one decision. To please society, or yourself.

When i left my hometown. Everyone forgot about me. They all moved on with their lives.
Meanwhile, i was making more friends around the globe. Many of wich, offered me a place to live. Home.
Now i have multiple homes. As a matter of fact, over the past 2 years, ive come to the conclusion that(for me atleast), home is simply where ever i am at that place in time.
Be it with family ive never met, friends couches, girly friends bedrooms, highway overpasses, under a nicely shaded tree. All places ive called home in my life.
Im in no way shape or form homeless. Because home is where you make it. As long as im happy somewhere, im at home.

Every time i return to these homes though, everything is drasticly diffrent, so although i have many homes i can return to all across the globe, none of them will ever be the same each visit.
That said: In my experiences, ive gained so much in traveling, that i would NEVER give even a FRACTION of it back in return for my own white pickit fence, and dog to come home to every night.

Theres just too much in life to experience. I simply CAN NOT waist it all in one place.

As far as reaching out and spreading the word on your ideas. No qualification is nessesary. Trust me. Ive left a great impresson on everyone ive ever spent time with. And im reminded by them often. Alot of people who have no experience with mind expansion or any taste of higher thought processses have told me that a simple conversation has changed there whole perception of the world and life.

My view on this. Although you cant share the experiences first hand that you will encounter traveling, you can share what you have learned with everyone you encounter during your travels. And trust me when i say this.. theres NO telling who youl meet. :)
In my opinion, this makes just as much an impact as it would from a more edjucated individual.. if not moreso. Sure you get less respect from the powers that be. but you have to question... who are the ones truely in power?

If you decide to try to work you way up the ladder and spread your ideas that way, be wary that those ideas dont get morphed by the very thing your trying to change.

My personal oppinion on the OT is that you should travel. I would like to continue doing so aswell. and i think you and i could accomplish quite abit together. But you already know how i feel about all that :D, so ill toss the broken record lol.
But ya, as ive seen mentioned previously. Do what makes you happy. its the only way. :)
-Trick

 

[ararat]

it is funny you are writing this post, because I thought about what you wrote the other time and came to the conclusion that you might be well off to travel for a while. travelling certainly does not enlighten you, but it makes room for it :D