Legality

[Psychoid]

Just a small reflexion I just had that might explain the nonsense of having alcool and tobacco, two of the worse drugs there are, legal, when lots of other drugs that pose much less danger are kept illegal.

They are doing a war on drugs. They want all drugs eliminated. They did try to outlaw them all, but it resulted in drastic increases in criminality and other nasty effect. So they realised that they had to let at least one drug legal. But they still wanted people to have a bad opinion about them all. They then decided to allow people to legally use two of the most dangerous drugs so lots of bad things happen and people start to think that "drugs are evil and shouldn't exist". If they had been honest, they would have chosen drugs which pose minimal risk. But if they had legalised, lets say, cannabis and mushrooms, then the public's opinion about drugs would have been much different, since they would have caused very little harm and a lot of good. Then it would have been too hard to keep other drugs legal, as too many people would want to experiment with other ones too. Having alcool legalised provokes the following reflexion in a lot of people: "Look at all the problems we have with only alcool, what will it be if we legalise cannabis!"

 

[Forkbender]

Who is 'they'?

 

[cockknocker]

Who is 'they'?

The Illuminati......

8) (not meant to mean cool, its supposed to be a spy)


But that is quite a good theory.

 

[Psychoid]

Who is 'they'?

The people in control. Or at least those who fight the war on drugs.

 

[Affirmatory]

Whoever 'they' is right now, I don't think they care about having a drugged population. Or they have come to terms with it and are trying to make the best of it for themselves.

How is having a nation of stimulant addicts (caffeine to work faster and stay awake) who dumb themselves down with brain damaging poison(alcohol), and need to smoke an expensive cylinder of chemicals every half hour, a bad thing for a government?

Or maybe governments aren't as evil as I am supposing
I think there are a lot of reasons this drug war started and even more reasons why it is still going, it's a complex issue but I think it comes down to being easier for the governments to maintain the status quo than anything else. They're playing it safe, 'If it ain't broke don't fix it' I think is there attitude but soon they will see it was always broken.

On second thoughts, I don't think 'they' have much more reasons to keep certain drugs illegal than the fact that they truly think certain drugs are bad because society taught them so long ago and they never questioned it.

 

[tryptonaut]

Alcohol wasn't "chosen" to be the legal drug, alcohol was just there with everyone and you wouldn't stand a chance to outlaw it. America tried during prohibition - they realised that then even the most law-abiding citizens would become "criminals" because drinking beer or wine is just a cultural thing in Europe and North America, and people won't stop it, no matter what.

How is having a nation of stimulant addicts (caffeine to work faster and stay awake) who dumb themselves down with brain damaging poison(alcohol), and need to smoke an expensive cylinder of chemicals every half hour, a bad thing for a government?

I read an article once where the author quoted a politican from the time when coffee was replacing beer (!) as a breakfast drink for German workers. I don't know who exactly said it, but he said that coffee saved the work quality of a whole nation because workers don't appear at work half drunk like they did before they had coffee.

I think alcohol was just always there, and everybody can be glad when its consumption is reduced. And everyday alcohol consumption is definitely going down.
I was told that in the 70ies a Munich film crew (mostly the gaffers) went on strike as their American producer had ordered catering without beer. They said they wouldn't work anymore until there was beer for lunch.
Today I am pretty sure on a film crew nobody would touch beer in their lunch break, not even in Munich (especially not the gaffers who have to climb on rigs and safely fix heavy lighting instruments).

The other drugs that have been accepted - nicotine, caffeine, all kinds of painkillers etc. - are those that don't have a huge effect on your thinking and working capability.
I mean cocaine was first accepted in Europe and celebrated as an anti-alcoholism, anti-stress, anti-everything tonic, only its bad side effects like addiction, psychosis etc. slowly made people realize that this new drug is at least as bad as alcohol, and something needed to be done about it. Same with heroine, first marketed by Bayer as the new, side effects free morphine.

If alcohol wasn't that much based in European culture and history, it would have been outlawed as well, I'm totally sure about that.

 

[Brugmansia]

Those who want to strip the 1 from their forehead, will find the corridor. Those who serve the given mark on their forehead, better stay frivolous for the sake of all parties.

 

[Jamapricotica]

The Government is not quite intelligent enough to consciously alter the public's opinion of drugs in this way.

They simply have no idea what they are talking about.

I think we have to remember that these people are like everyone else, the only difference being that they believe that what they think, is how everyone should live.

These people did not get to run the country by being intelligent. They got there by remaining conservative and severely limiting the infinite dimensions of information in the world entering their mindset, instead following a delusional single set pathway.

If they do not understand something, they are not going to explore it and learn all the facts about it. They are going to say, 'It must be bad because it's different to how I think'.

And we have to be careful because these types of people are truly insane. They are the very definition of psychotic.

 

[1comma4butanediol]

If they do not understand something, they are not going to explore it and learn all the facts about it. They are going to say, 'It must be bad because it's different to how I think'.

And we have to be careful because these types of people are truly insane. They are the very definition of psychotic.

As a rule, I try not to hate people, I try to reserve my hate for ideas only.

I do hate Christianity, for many of the reasons you describe above. A huge component of the religion is to bear "witness" to others and try to convert them. This is a horrible aspect of an already horrible lie.

It's not enough that they have complete freedom to get together and chant and sing magic songs to appease their magic sky being. It's not enough that in the US their organizations are exempt from paying taxes. It's not enough that they have complete freedom to serve a god that says, "do what I say or I'll send you into a fiery hell where you will suffer for all eternity." They just have to go around forcing their bullshit onto everyone else.

They have to battle and spread FUD about evolution as if there is still some debate about it in the scientific community. Yeah right. They outright claim that there is no scientific consensus. This is a lie. I thought they consider that a sin? Guess it doesn't apply to them, just others somehow. I have a friend who's in the biology field, and let me assure you: there is no debate in the scientific community about evolution being a real-world process. The only debate is over the specifics (What conditions are conducive to speciation? Which species were ancestors of which others? What genes or traits were the ones that evolved in a specific case to cause the mating probability between two groups to drop to 0? How does adaptive radiation progress? Etc, etc.)

It's not enough that they can home-school their children in the US and teach them all about Intelligent Design. It's not enough. They want to get the public school boards to teach ID in science classes. Even the past US president, Bush, was quoted as saying he thought both should be taught in science class so people could understand the debate. What debate? Doesn't that belong in a philosophy or religion class anyway? What the hell does ID have to do with science? Where are the predictions? How is it falsifiable?

It's not enough that Christians can easily avoid buying beer or alcohol. They want to ban it's sale. There are many dry counties in the US, and there are many other places in the US where beer cannot be purchased on Sunday before noon. Many other places don't sell liqueur on Sunday at all. Sunday, yes, the Christian day. Don't try to tell me the Christians didn't have anything to do with this, they were the driving force. The ban being on their "holy day" is almost proof enough.

It's not enough that Christians can just not buy pornography or adult materials. They just don't buy it if they don't want to, that simple. Just not enough for them. Instead, I'm always reading about all these new laws popping up and down in various counties and various states trying to ban the sale of these materials within a certain radius of schools. Like that does anything. The materials require ID and over 18 anyway. How does a gas station selling porn close to a school do anything different than one farther away? Similar laws pop up and go away every now and again about selling porn within a certain range of churches. I think they just want to ban it everywhere they can whenever they can and come up with whatever excuse ("Won't someone please think of the children?!?!?") will get their desired goal accomplished.

It's not enough that many drugs are illegal and possession will fuck a persons life over. The Christians have successfully enacted laws in many states in the US that state that a drug possession / manufacture within a certain radius of a church requires the minimum sentence to be served no matter what with no chance for parole. What the fuck?

I fucking hate Christianity, and it's eradication, IMHO, would go a LONG way toward making the world a much better place.

To be unbiased and fair, I hate all religions.

The only rational and sane approach to understanding and living in the world is to build the best model for reality as possible, and when the model is shown to be wrong in some way, the model should be fixed to better align with actual measurements of reality. Note how this sane approach is incompatible with almost every religion in the world, as most have some form of an "absolute truth" that can never be adjusted or fixed if found to be in disagreement with reality.

Wow, what a rant... sorry guys.... I hate Christianity more than almost anything else in the world.

I don't hate Christians who try to force their ideas on others, they can't help it. They're just too fucking stupid to know better and to realize that they should do what they want and allow everyone else to do the same.

Hate the ideas, not the people, guys!

 

[restin]

Fuck off, 1comma4butanediol. People like you are the ones who make the world a bad place.

 

[1comma4butanediol]

Fuck off, 1comma4butanediol. People like you are the ones who make the world a bad place.

(sarcasm) Yes, I make the world a bad place by stressing that people should never be hated, and that the ideas should be thought about as being negative instead. That just sounds like a horrible thing to tell people to do! (/sarcasm)

And what's so wrong with trying to get people to do what they want as long as they don't hurt people and leave others alone? Really, that's an honest question. As that was the entire point of my post, tell me how that's such an evil thing and make the world a bad place?

Why is it so horrible to suggest that Christians should do what they want? Don't drink if you don't want. Don't buy porn if you don't want. Get together with people who think like you if you want. Sing songs, and dance if you want. Teach your kids whatever you want in your own home. Do what you want! I think it's great! Just leave me alone and don't force it on me!

How is that horrible? Why am I an evil person in your eyes just because I don't want you to try to force your ideas on me?

It's an honest question. Why should I fuck off, and why do I make the world a worse place? What part of what I'm saying is so terrible?

 

[restin]

Because you hate.

 

[1comma4butanediol]

Because you hate.

Well, you got me there. I can't really argue against that. The world would be better without hate, and I would be better if I didn't hate Christianity. You're totally right. I tip my hat to you, sir.

However, I still think that even if I was able to get all my hate to melt away, the world would be better without religions that have "force your ideas upon other people" at their core.

 

[restin]

You know, I won't go into it. I don't know you and I don't know if you're worth it. No offense but this is a large subject. The only thing I can advice you to do is to lay down your ignorant view on christianity and religion and try to understand what it is all about. I can understand dislike towards to Church or other religious institutions - really - but not against religions themselves.

It is fairly ironic because what Christ wanted to spread is love. Just to oppose it to your hate.


"ideas are bulletproof"

 

[1comma4butanediol]

The only thing I can advice you to do is to lay down your ignorant view on christianity and religion and try to understand what it is all about.

I think there is a chance that there is some great pure form of Christianity and Christian ideals that are wonderful. I am totally willing to accept that as a possibility. However, all I can really see is the real world effects of Christianity as currently implemented in the world. Much as communism seems like such a great idea, but always seems to fail in practice. I see similar things with Christianity.

Christ may have been all about love and acceptance, but I see "Christians" down at the university campus screaming in a loudspeaker that all the girls are sinners and going to hell because they are wearing short skirts and T-shirts in the hot summer. Where is the love and acceptance in that?

I see many Christians trying their hardest to enact laws that directly take away my freedoms: my freedom to have a beer on Sunday, my freedom to look at some porn when my gf is tired and suggests I should do it myself and let her rest, my freedom to use a drug every now and then after a hard week of work. Where is the love and acceptance in that?

I just see so much negative impact from Christianity as currently implemented.

Perhaps I should say that you managed to point out another mistake in my words and perhaps even my thinking. I stand corrected again. I should have been saying that I hate Christianity as currently implemented. I hate most religions as currently implemented.

I recognize I shouldn't have any hate at all, ideally, and I realize that shouldn't have said that I hate "Christianity" as it's a thing that's hard to define and even those who have called themselves "Christians" for years will probably have disagreement about what exactly that means.

All I can say is that there is a current implementation of ideas and actions in the world today and in the world in the past that could be called a form of Christianity and that it is has been and is currently tearing the world apart. The holy wars, the Spanish inquisition, the blocking of scientific progress that seemingly contradicts the word of god in the bible, the making of sins illegal and the punishment of those who break them. Where is the love and acceptance in any of that?

There is just so much evil I see from a poor implementation. I wish the implementation would go away and people would be free to do what they want as long and they don't hurt others.

 

[Forkbender]

Hating religion just helps religious people think they are right, it is not worth the hassle.

 

[restin]

okay, I see your point clearer. It is indeed a shame to see such people running around freely.

On the other hand, we are all thrown into a world of consumerism and lost values, so I can sometimes understand people that try to grasp some pseudo-ideas that are changed so many times that they differ strongly from the original idea. These people are simply lost and desperate.

I think that instead of hating the old values and going into the other radical direction (nihilism, pseudo-atheism), we need to build up a new world that is built out of love, compassion and freedom. And this is not done by hating and bashing. Try to convert your energy into something positive, productive. Hate breeds hate. We're all humans after all.

 

[GOD]

Restin , instead of aplying your concrete definitions to what the guy says relax and understand what hes trying to get over . Hes not an anti-social prick and he obviously has a lot of experience and realy cares about society......just like you do . If you want to ..... claim .....that religeons are not bad youll have to define what you mean . I think you mean that the idea of religeon isnt bad and that all religeous people arent bad......BUT you cant deny that what the organised churches and many of their crazyer "followers" have done to the world and society is one of the bigest problems we have .

 

[restin]

I hope you didn't read my post above before you posted.

Exactly by describing what I mean a gigantious chapter would be open. What was the teaching and aim of Christ, what do his words mean etc.

For example a lot of Symbolism of Christianity is about Ego-Death, about finding the "realm of God" in your heart. And then you can go on to help (compassion), to love but also to find your own Truth and Values. He says that God is in yourself and not in Churches and institutions (Just like it was before with the Jews). And this is exactly the opposite of what the Church is. Think of it.

 

[GOD]

Your right i was writing that while you posted .


But personaly i think jewses was a piece of shit , a total anti social prat and couldnt have done more to fuck the world up than he did . All that shit with love and peace and love your neigbour and turn the other cheek . What a load of crap , fashist propoganda . He couldnt have done more to keep people under controle and keep them in misery and slavery than he did . Just like gandi . Personaly i hate scum like them as i`m a pacafist and want to end wars , end slavery , free the people and spread love . There is only one way to do that and its to educate the people and arm them . Then every time some bastard stands up and robs / rapes / causes wars we all stand up and blast the fucker . = no more war and no more slavery . The only other choice is the jesus / gandi / karma / budhist way = just smile and pretend it isnt happening = give up all your rights and freedom and ensure that the suffering carrys on . Ensure that nazis and dictators can continue to exploit us and kill the planet .