Legalisation
- Auteur de la discussion GOD
- Date de début
I think you are missing the finer subtleties of this issue completely.
If I go to a forum that is in French, and I translate this forum using Babelfish, I can get the whole page printed out in perfect french.
However, due to slang, idiom, and other lingual anomalies, I may not grasp the finer points of a conversation.
If I go to a forum that is in French, and I translate this forum using Babelfish, I can get the whole page printed out in perfect french.
However, due to slang, idiom, and other lingual anomalies, I may not grasp the finer points of a conversation.
restin a dit:
Restin, you seem to not have heard the news (the real ones) about cannabis and other substances...
Tobacco IS NOT ok. Cigarettes have nicotine. If you didn't know, nicotine is a neurotoxin made by plants to ward off insects. This means that is basically poison. Long term nicotine smoking gives you cancer, fucks your lungs, your voice and health and your organism becomes addicted to it. Long term cannabis use gives you happiness and health. I'm serious. The government has made several "studies" to demonstrate how evil marihuana is and they have come with bullshit. In fact they just proved that not only you can't get cancer from it, it helps fighting it.
So you remembered right; it IS more dangerous than weed. Moreover weed is NOT dangerous at all.
**
Maybe not knowing this info is why you didn't grasp what st.bot.32 said... which was that the DEA treats medical marihuana users as clueless strayers messing with dangerous chemicals. Which they are not, they know very well what they are doing. They know the truth.
Is my English so bad or what. To make my point clear I DO NOT say that I think that tobacco is ok it is SOCIETY that thinks like that, I tried to say exactly what you said now.
You really have to read my point more carefully, if my point wasn't clear enough, I apologise. But what you try to say is something I never said and never assumed!
To the effects of weed: losing control of reality has positives and negatives.
You really have to read my point more carefully, if my point wasn't clear enough, I apologise. But what you try to say is something I never said and never assumed!
To the effects of weed: losing control of reality has positives and negatives.
G
Guest
Guest
you seem like two deafs speaking with one another.
what could we do to acheive legalization ?
perhaps if we organized instead of constantly being in ridiculous argumentations...
but the truth is: we have been hunted down since free thought start to be a problem. we will always be the little rock in someone else's shoe. our discussions will only spread us. demonstrations are a circus and our anger is music to them.
what could we do to acheive legalization ?
perhaps if we organized instead of constantly being in ridiculous argumentations...
but the truth is: we have been hunted down since free thought start to be a problem. we will always be the little rock in someone else's shoe. our discussions will only spread us. demonstrations are a circus and our anger is music to them.
And why the hell are you attacking me all the time? I do not have an opposite opinion than you do!! There is not only black or white in this world!! I just don't understand the point in calling everything that makes you feel fine medication and therefore legalise it. I mean: hooray, heroine for the 12-year old kiddies, they feel fine now... You can't say that an everyday use of weed doesn't have negative effects on a person! You loose connection to things that are important, too, in your life etc.
But remember my friend: I am for legalisation, too but with other reasoning. Maybe you should try to understand mine too.
But remember my friend: I am for legalisation, too but with other reasoning. Maybe you should try to understand mine too.
No one is trying to be a dick to you.
You have chosen a seemingly uneducated stance in several areas. When you do this, you must be prepared to defend what you say, with passion, clarity, and control.
Otherwise, this is what happens.
You really didn't address any of the ponts that I made earlier, you attempted to critique them, but critique without qualification invites dissension, and rapidly...
You have chosen a seemingly uneducated stance in several areas. When you do this, you must be prepared to defend what you say, with passion, clarity, and control.
Otherwise, this is what happens.
You really didn't address any of the ponts that I made earlier, you attempted to critique them, but critique without qualification invites dissension, and rapidly...
hey hey I'm not attacking you! Is just that I get passionate when defending cannabis.. although this time my defense was uncalled for. You're right, I re-read your post and I misunderstood... Oh well..
Anyway, I do think there's a line between weed and all other drugs. Obviously this does not mean that you have to be stoned all day everyday day. There's use and then there's abuse... but that goes for everything too...
*
about the legalization subject: I'm not waiting for it to happen anytime soon..
Anyway, I do think there's a line between weed and all other drugs. Obviously this does not mean that you have to be stoned all day everyday day. There's use and then there's abuse... but that goes for everything too...
*
about the legalization subject: I'm not waiting for it to happen anytime soon..
Because I sense that many feel I am a bit overzealous.....my intent is not to offend, but to jolt into ones awareness the reality, not the BS....
A zen parable may be relevant here;
There was once a student who wished to learn about zen. After he pestered everyone in the village he finally was directed to a master, a little old man with a tigerish aspect about him.
He said; " what do you want "?
The student said; " To learn the way "
" Why would you want to learn this? " he asked
" To be free" was the reply
" Who binds you ?" asked the master
" No one binds me"
" Then why do you want to be told how to be free ?"
Koans never give the answer.....the way that teachers knew whether you got it or not was based on your insight.
Carrying pre-formed conceptualizations around in his head is what was binding him. In other words, his thinking was binding him, and he never even realized it. The master was being exceptionally kind by responding to his situation with such an apt koan.
A zen parable may be relevant here;
There was once a student who wished to learn about zen. After he pestered everyone in the village he finally was directed to a master, a little old man with a tigerish aspect about him.
He said; " what do you want "?
The student said; " To learn the way "
" Why would you want to learn this? " he asked
" To be free" was the reply
" Who binds you ?" asked the master
" No one binds me"
" Then why do you want to be told how to be free ?"
Koans never give the answer.....the way that teachers knew whether you got it or not was based on your insight.
Carrying pre-formed conceptualizations around in his head is what was binding him. In other words, his thinking was binding him, and he never even realized it. The master was being exceptionally kind by responding to his situation with such an apt koan.
G
Guest
Guest
tradition brings a sense of comunity, which brings routines, which bring security.
illegalization means criminalization, and therefore, against society. just like in pre-historical times, when a "stranger" came to the village and everyone distrusted him.
people look at illegallities as things which corrupt society and will cause caos. they fear for them and for their offspring. they, as all of us, belive in what they have been taught. we think different from them, and should respect them as much as we want respect. perhaps then we will be seen as people that work WITH the community, and not against, as, for example, the church does.
for example, have you wondered that associating sexuality with sin is the most unnatural thing that can be done ?
that's denying our nature, and, more importantly, bringing a newborn to the world already with blame and guilt attached.
illegalization means criminalization, and therefore, against society. just like in pre-historical times, when a "stranger" came to the village and everyone distrusted him.
people look at illegallities as things which corrupt society and will cause caos. they fear for them and for their offspring. they, as all of us, belive in what they have been taught. we think different from them, and should respect them as much as we want respect. perhaps then we will be seen as people that work WITH the community, and not against, as, for example, the church does.
for example, have you wondered that associating sexuality with sin is the most unnatural thing that can be done ?
that's denying our nature, and, more importantly, bringing a newborn to the world already with blame and guilt attached.
For example, why would you question why anyone would want to put any substance in their body?
Is it that persons business or the governments??
As Shulgin says on the last page of Part 1 in PIHKAL, this (gesturing to self)
is soveriegn territory, and I will N-E-V-E-R concede the rights to it to any government or other oppressive organization.
Is it that persons business or the governments??
As Shulgin says on the last page of Part 1 in PIHKAL, this (gesturing to self)
is soveriegn territory, and I will N-E-V-E-R concede the rights to it to any government or other oppressive organization.
G
Guest
Guest
if you decide to put a substance in your body, it is both your business and the goverment's.
the problem here is that the goverment is not a goverment, it is an oligarchy. the true goverment is meant to serve the people, and not the people to serve the goverment. we don't do it against no one, but people don't know this. if you want to look at it this way, when you take an acid blotter, you would be helping the goverment, because you would be helping yourself and therefore everyone around you. the problem is that the people around you have learned not to be help, to distrust you, because you are drugged, and that's a very terrible thing, like being caught masturbating in a public place by your grandma (just examples, don't take it personally). their secret is to put everyone distrusting everyone, so there will be no groups that are able to think alone. that's why there is no depth in social conversations. groups are only allowed in controlled places, like demonstrations, church, goverment assembly, and similar trashcans.
and there is a thing that will make everything worse: if you decide to put certain substances in your blood, you start to question things. you may spread the word and they would have a little angry mob at their doors. both of us will have to admit that they have everything very well controlled. they are not stupid at all.
why did they went witch hunting ? because they also questioned things. and paganism is everywhere, at least here where i live, and always was. but you did not "made potions", you were not a witch...perhaps you were jew, or a very stupid person.
we are today's witches. we get hunted down, and are constantly under surveillance (don't doubt it), monitored like animals with contagious diseases.
(and i know i use the expression "for example" a lot, i have a limited english vocabulary, and i like to make myself clearer as possible, and there is nothing better than giving examples
)
the problem here is that the goverment is not a goverment, it is an oligarchy. the true goverment is meant to serve the people, and not the people to serve the goverment. we don't do it against no one, but people don't know this. if you want to look at it this way, when you take an acid blotter, you would be helping the goverment, because you would be helping yourself and therefore everyone around you. the problem is that the people around you have learned not to be help, to distrust you, because you are drugged, and that's a very terrible thing, like being caught masturbating in a public place by your grandma (just examples, don't take it personally). their secret is to put everyone distrusting everyone, so there will be no groups that are able to think alone. that's why there is no depth in social conversations. groups are only allowed in controlled places, like demonstrations, church, goverment assembly, and similar trashcans.
and there is a thing that will make everything worse: if you decide to put certain substances in your blood, you start to question things. you may spread the word and they would have a little angry mob at their doors. both of us will have to admit that they have everything very well controlled. they are not stupid at all.
why did they went witch hunting ? because they also questioned things. and paganism is everywhere, at least here where i live, and always was. but you did not "made potions", you were not a witch...perhaps you were jew, or a very stupid person.
we are today's witches. we get hunted down, and are constantly under surveillance (don't doubt it), monitored like animals with contagious diseases.
(and i know i use the expression "for example" a lot, i have a limited english vocabulary, and i like to make myself clearer as possible, and there is nothing better than giving examples
)Well, if a government was acting in it's own best interests, which it's not, then they would stick to the constitution and use it to guide their efforts, which would be minimal...when you say it is both your business and the governments if a person puts a substance in their body, I must disagree....what you say essentially is that the government is acting to preserve itself by persecuting us....
I have no interest in their pathetic attempts at self-preservation....I would be much quicker to help a drunken bum in an alley or a hurt dog than any government official.
They are clinging to power, but they are writing the contravct for their own demise.....once the infrastructure breaks down, there will be no government like there is today, it will return to proper, smaller, less involved government, as is natural and sane.
Make no mistake, the infrastructure IS the governments raison d'etre.
Oil is the spine of the infrastructure, and the writing on the wall says that the time is near.
I have no interest in their pathetic attempts at self-preservation....I would be much quicker to help a drunken bum in an alley or a hurt dog than any government official.
They are clinging to power, but they are writing the contravct for their own demise.....once the infrastructure breaks down, there will be no government like there is today, it will return to proper, smaller, less involved government, as is natural and sane.
Make no mistake, the infrastructure IS the governments raison d'etre.
Oil is the spine of the infrastructure, and the writing on the wall says that the time is near.
I also think, that even if I want to destroy my life, it is my own decision. It is MY responsibility. The ultimate reason for a government to exist is to help people to survive by creating a community. But there are no predators running in the woods any more. A lot of people think that the use of drugs (I don't like the word, it's so filthy and negative, it is used in so many wrong ways) is a cry for help of the user, that the community has to help him because he is on the wrong way. So the government is trying to "help" us. (please, don't get me wrong again, this is not my opinion)
at least this is more or less like that here.
Is it really so hard in the US, spice? I knew about some really bad movements in the US-government but I didn't know about such clear cases of surpression.
exactly, this sense of community makes people very conservative and unlearns them to think.
at least this is more or less like that here.
Is it really so hard in the US, spice? I knew about some really bad movements in the US-government but I didn't know about such clear cases of surpression.
exactly, this sense of community makes people very conservative and unlearns them to think.
G
Guest
Guest
what i meant by goverment was not what we call goverment. i meant, between lines, that the goverment should be composed by competent people that should be guided by the will of the people, and not otherwise, as it already is.
in that sense, everything we do would have an impact on the goverment, because goverment should be the people. so, your substance would also concern the goverment (not this state we have today!!!the imaginary, perfect goverment)
apart from that lack of communication, i agree with everything you said.
every era has to come to an end, and this is no exception. oil will one day be over, big cities will one day be impossible to live in (if they aren't already), food prices will be too high, and people will have a too low wage. the infrastructure you are talking about not only supports the goverment, as it also supports society itself, as it is built and maintained by it. i don't think it will collapse entirely (never did before), but i belive that it will morph into another kind of ideas and organizations.
in that sense, everything we do would have an impact on the goverment, because goverment should be the people. so, your substance would also concern the goverment (not this state we have today!!!the imaginary, perfect goverment)
apart from that lack of communication, i agree with everything you said.
every era has to come to an end, and this is no exception. oil will one day be over, big cities will one day be impossible to live in (if they aren't already), food prices will be too high, and people will have a too low wage. the infrastructure you are talking about not only supports the goverment, as it also supports society itself, as it is built and maintained by it. i don't think it will collapse entirely (never did before), but i belive that it will morph into another kind of ideas and organizations.
