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Is the universe intelligent?

Molto Lontano

Elfe Mécanique
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11 Nov 2012
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312
I think life was born intelligent.

From bacteria and plants to mammals and birds , all species are intelligent.

Intelligence means divide the body from ambient, control the body, and understand something of the laws of universe and act to improve the survival odds.

But if life is intelligent and if it comes from universe, why cannot universe have superior awareness ?

SFME. :)
 

Finarfin

Sale drogué·e
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20 Juil 2013
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798
Humans consider themselves intelligent compared to animals and plants. They can only compared themselves with what they see around them. When we talk about human intelligent there does not seem to be a more higher intelligence around to compare. We might say that out meat brain is most developed mear brain in the animal kingdom.

So when we look at intelligence that way, it is pure brain size. The bigger the brain the brighter the intellligence.
 

Demahdi

Banni
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23 Avr 2014
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546
our brain is a well evolved product...
But what is our body compared to a hornets body?
What is our ability of speaking compared to sonar with Dolphins?
What is our ability to orientate compared to birds flying the magnetic field?
We know jack shit about these species, we think we do... but have you ever really observed an ant? a hornet? a dolphin?
You are only smart when you use your abilities to its best.
Which we don't :) (general)
 

Jawn

Matrice périnatale
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15 Mai 2015
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2
( Guy, I saw this post, checking out what was up in here and trying to talk a little, like... Making a first post after registering. I saw this thread and was like "owh... Yeah." Took a machinegun on the rack, put on black glasses and went in with an explosion behind.

So first thing first: hello.)

First, you have to consider that intelligence is nothing. It doesn't exist at all if you do not consider it from a human perspective since it's a concept invented (and not even well defined) by humans.
We barely know what intelligence is (we don't, actually, we're still talking about it) and if we apply it the way Rickster said


Intelligence: it’s not that complicated: the ability to posess and apply knowledge.

It's making things simpler but lead us to ask ourselves: how do we know when something posess knowledge ?
Can we say a computer posesses knowledge ? It contains datas for sure, but it applies it following a simple (well. Kinda simple) pattern. You can obviously say the same thing for humans at another level of complexity but then there's the Consciousness Issue.

Finarfin, that guy said:
We may think of humans as intelligent or conscious and some might say humans have more consciousness or are more intelligent then other beings.

I think you can't split intelligent and consciousness. If you take the root of the word "Intelligence" you find the latin "Intelligere", which means "to understand" so if we admit intelligence has a non subjective meaning, we gotta say it's not only a computer work of APPLYING pre-introduced datas (and by the way a process of which the consequences can be seen) and that this work of appliance of the datas - the informations, actually- is only a consequence of the intelligent condition which is based on one thing:

understanding or thinking about understanding what is going on. Even a will of understanding can be that because it demonstrate that you have the capacity to conceptualize ideas that are not designed to produce a concrete effect on reality.
Some wise guy said that what makes human intelligence superior (or at least particular) is the ability to use abstract ideas. (the perfect example to demonstrate that is the concept of TIME as a dimension and not as a suite of causes and consequences which lead humans to picture time travel and even to approach it theoretically. Boom, your move, dolphins.)

So, Intelligence.
Is the Universe intelligent ?

It's a really religious debate, actually. Because if it is, it means there's a consciouness out there. Or IN THERE actually.
Jung made up a theory about conscious creating conscious by the link. Basically, the point was: if there was as much humans in a precisely designed space as there are neurons in a brains (the space was earth but I think we could calculate a more accurate thing), a superior conscience could be imaginable. The equivalent of the human mind for the neurons, using humans as neurons. That's to say not as individual calculator (which we are right now) but as a relay for ideas which would travel from humaneurons to humaneurons and form a giant thought.
We already do that under the form of debates. We've got the power of calculation but not the processor. That's the missing point: GOd. If we try to imagine a being called God as the one thinking the giant thoughts, the idea of universe being intelligence begins to make sense.




But the universe as we see it. As current humans see it, is theoretically nothing but a place. A place WE have to fill with our intelligences, and create a brighter one which will create even brighter ones after. THAT is evolution.

And

You are only smart when you use your abilities to its best.
Which we don't (general)

Man, we do. We just don't always use it the right way. Say you've got a gun and shoot all the bullets in the air. You've used it at it's best and still that was useless. (or you did it for the beauty and that was art but it's another story)
 

Demahdi

Banni
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23 Avr 2014
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546
In war you can take out an entire squad with one bullet or you can shoot entire clips revealing your position.

What I meant was, what is our ability? What can we use but why are we using it for today?
 

Finarfin

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20 Juil 2013
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798
I do not think evolution is the creation of ever more brighter intelligence. If you use the word create to discribe evolution you will confuse a lot of people.

Evolution (in the biological sense) is not creating more brighter intelligence. Evolution is not getting more intelligent or getting stronger.
Evolution is the adeptation to the environment.
 

Finarfin

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20 Juil 2013
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798
Jawn writes that Jung made up a theory about conscious creating conscious by the link.
I am not a stranger to the work or Carl Jung. I have read a lot his books. However i do not know what theory Jawn is writing about?
Where did Jung write about this theory? Source please?

Jung wrote about the collective unconsious. But the collective unconsious has nothing to do with creating conscious by link.
So what theory are we talking about here?
 

theflu

Matrice périnatale
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18 Mai 2015
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10
We are yet a low level of understanding collective consciousness and collective intelligence. Is the universe alive? might be a better questions, since intelligence might take forms that human beings don't comprehend.
 

lobsterapples

Neurotransmetteur
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19 Mai 2015
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34
^^^true say

wee monkeys like ourselves (im assuming no one has bought e-bay nano transplants yet) cannot hope to fully understand such concepts... though thinking about them is useful for expanding awareness and wider ranges of thought, the hope of grasping this concept would b the same as the hope of grasping the sun
 

Finarfin

Sale drogué·e
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20 Juil 2013
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798
theflu a dit:
We are yet a low level of understanding collective consciousness and collective intelligence. Is the universe alive? might be a better questions, since intelligence might take forms that human beings don't comprehend.

I agree.
But what is alive?

We are alive and we are part of the universe.
The universe might be one being and we might be part of this one being.
The universe may or may not be alive.
Do you think that the universe is..... I mean the universe may not be alive, but the universe may be a being?
Or something... :lol:
it may be something we can not comprehend.
 

Demahdi

Banni
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23 Avr 2014
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546
Y'all shouldn't stop at evolution.... :snakeman:
If evolution is only adaptation to the environment, how come we get diversity at the same locations?
What are hybrids worth under that explanation?
Take a donkey and a horse... Mix them and you lose chromosomes.
Humans have a fused chromosome and that's why we share a pair less with chimps.
Hybrid or adaptation? How come we lost/fused chromosomes and yet become the higher evolved kind?
 

lobsterapples

Neurotransmetteur
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19 Mai 2015
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34
[Y'all shouldn't stop at evolution.... :snakeman:]

uh oh watch out, transhumanist in the house :lol:

if we see ourselves as simple life forms within a larger much more complex something 'form', like the germs living in our gut, then wouldn't trans humanism be the equivalent of cancer for the universe?!?
 

Demahdi

Banni
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23 Avr 2014
Messages
546
I am not a trans humanist at all. From what post of mine do you interpret that?
To become "trans human" you need hardware and software. Or bionical suits.
There are things I might discuss from "alienation", though evolution is not that.
It got to me an interest of reaching a master in biology. Where does it bring you?
 
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