Quoi de neuf ?

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Is LSD dangerous?

IAmTheNight

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7 Avr 2009
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lucky_lab_rat a dit:
I will say ~some~ people should never do LSD. There are people with underlying mental issues that LSD can easily "break" (for lack of a better word) IMHO this is where the nonsense that lsd causes mental health problems comes from. But I have seen it happen first hand- sometimes relatively minor, sometimes not :cry:
There are definitely people I would never give LSD to.

I also agree with God somewhat- though I would not, without knowing the person, recommend a large dose (or any dose for that matter) to begin with. Personally, after my first trip or two, a ten strip became the norm, and as my involvement grew I graduated to as large a puddle of wash as my hands could hold, then onto thumbprints :)

Once you get to ego-death doses I don't really see how more LSD will improve the trip.
Surely a thumbprint is a bit wasteful?

What would you estimate the dose of an avergage thumbprint to be? ~6/7mg?
 

lucky_lab_rat

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5 Avr 2009
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IAmTheNight a dit:
Once you get to ego-death doses I don't really see how more LSD will improve the trip.
Surely a thumbprint is a bit wasteful?

What would you estimate the dose of an avergage thumbprint to be? ~6/7mg?

I wouldn't guess as to an avg- it depends on how big your thumb is, whether you wet it first, and how long you hold it/hard you roll it :wink:

for the avg user- not something I would recommend.but when you are constantly exposed for weeks on end- cases of raw jars, rooms hung wall to wall with dripping paper, hands immersed in trays...well... your tolerance goes skyhigh. Again- not something I would recommend- it quickly gets to the point that it becomes your base state- when the craziness stops after a few weeks/months and you come back to baseline- thats when you feel high :? But these are the things you end up putting yourself through for something you truly believe in...


BTW- I fully agree about ego-death doses...
 

st.bot.32

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5 Oct 2007
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I so agree, psychedelics are not for everyone. LSD is such an amazing substance for looking in, analyzing ideas and cleaning out all the crap/deprogramming yourself. But mental problems aside, some people just aren't that much in control of themselves. Rather than analyzing and thinking about the little delusions and trains of thought that occur during the trip, they take it at face value and use psychedelics to reinforce their personal delusions.. hence as the saying goes a christian sees jesus, a muslim sees mohammed, etc.. Psychedelics don't do the work for you, they just open the door.

I had a great night. Some moments of intensive emotion but as always, taking a step back and thinking about the cause of the emotion transformed a negative feeling into an insightful healing experience and chance to grow. I wrote a lot, and it's actually mostly coherent. I heart acid.
 

endlessness

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7 Mar 2008
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Hey, nice to hear about someone here thumbprinting and in the mission of spreading the knowledge :)

There's something quite unique to acid, it's whole role on history, what it represents.

I sometimes feel it has a trickster/joker side to it, like, when you think you have gotten the truth, it melts in front of your eyes. Or also sometimes it feels as if there is the pot of gold just around the corner, its hard to describe the feeling, but it doesnt ever really 'conclude'.

Its quite beautiful also, so many colours and thoughts and patterns. GREAT for listening to music, choose well a playlist!


I agree with everyone that the op sounds quite reasonable in his ideas and intentions, and considering no history of serious psychiatric issues in the family and this kind of thing, he should plan a nice session and do it!
 

st.bot.32

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endlessness a dit:
I sometimes feel it has a trickster/joker side to it, like, when you think you have gotten the truth, it melts in front of your eyes.

+1 That's definitely part of what I really like about it! (Sensory crossover and listening to music aside..)
 

J-Factor

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26 Avr 2009
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Thanks for all the advice guys.

After rethinking it, I will probably take the whole blotter instead of halving it. I don't really want to be disappointed in the experience, and I know there's the risk that I may not be prepared for what I may see, but that's a risk I'm going to have to take. In most situations I am able to remain calm and not overreact or panic, so I'm hoping this carries over into my experience.

I understand LSD isn't for everyone. Some people's minds are just far too weak to handle what it can do, but as far as I know, I'm completely stable in mind and there's no record of anything of the sort in my family.

Discussing this has really made me get over the worries I had about it, which worrying is probably one of the worst things I could do when on LSD.

I'm looking forward to planning my experience now, and expanding my mind in ways I've never thought possible.

Again, thanks for all the advice.
 

GOD

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"I may not be prepared for what I may see"

Thats the same for everyone on their first trip . A little aprehension is normal and a good thing . After they came up all the people i have tripped with laughed about their aprehension and that they thought the trip was going to change their "me" . It doesnt , you stay you but the way you see and think about things changes . Maybe compair it to listening tofootball match on a mono radio and then takeing something that makes things like watching the same game on a wide screen , high definition , stero full colour TV . All your senses are either expanded or better tuned . Things dont have the same urgancy or seriousness that they do in real life . Its fun .
 

Getafix

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18 Avr 2009
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I actually had no idea what dosages were administered by early LSD researchers, until I read this yesterday:

Chapter 11. DOSAGE

Dosages, in our experience range between 100 and 1000 micrograms and possibly larger doses may be used in the future. Doses of 1500 micrograms have been used by Hubbard without unfortunate side effects.

The drug is usually administered by giving an initial dose which is believed to be adequate and, where necessary. Increments of 200-300 gamma are used at intervals of one and a half to two and a half hours, depending on the reaction.

The initial dose may be as small as 100 micrograms in people whose problem is not too severe or whose frame of reference appears to be flexible. In the majority of cases who came for treatment, however, initial doses of 300 to 600 micrograms seem indicated. The larger doses (more than 300 micrograms) are used mainly in individuals who have previously had LSD treatment but have shown insufficient response.

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/guides/handbook_lsd25.shtml#11

And:

Chapter 3. THE DEVELOPMENT OF TREATMENT METHODS

Therapists found that the ingestion of dosages of 75 gamma or more created perceptual changes and other alterations which provoked extreme anxiety in the subject. Hubbard indicated how to avoid this disruptive feature by training his subjects to be able to relax in the face of the loss of control of physiology and awareness precipitated by breathing CO2. This capacity to remain relaxed and unconcerned by the early symptoms of LSD, permits the use of large doses without the arousal of intense anxiety.

Hubbard went beyond this, structuring the situation such that the subject was provided with a new framework into which the experience fitted. His method employed a religious setting involving religious themes in pictures and music and a general stressing of the spiritual aspects of the experience. In these terms the experience was understandable to the subjects for, with the exception of the psychotic changes, each of the features, outlined by Chwelos and quoted earlier in this report, can be fitted into this pattern.

One of the unfortunate procedures which has been widely used to prevent the arousal of anxiety in the LSD session is the system of beginning with a small dose and gradually increasing the amount given over a succession of experiences. This procedure is used to reduce anxiety. It is reasoned that as the drug effect is being sampled a bit at a time, it will at no time become so overwhelming as to induce distress. Unfortunately, such a procedure is unlikely to be rewarding. Small dosages, when they produce any reaction, are unlikely to induce confusion and psychotomimetic features. When they provoke little or not reaction, the procedure drastically reduced the therapeutic effect of the drug. Psychotomimetic features tend to appear at that point in the experience at which the individual's accustomed concept of himself and the world about him -the frame of reference which constitutes hi ties with reality- is becoming no longer tenable in the face of the habitual perceptions induced by the drug. When the drug effect is sufficiently pronounced, the accustomed frame of reference is overwhelmed. In the process of having his accustomed attitudes and sets demolished and of finding a stability in experience outside this psychological framework, the individual finds he has acquired a new outlook. In instances in which the drug effect is insufficient, the individual is left in a state in which he has a very tenuous hold on the reality ties represented by his accustomed concepts and yet is unable to structure or accept the unhabitual perceptions and concepts which the experience has engendered. This confusing, painful and often frightening state constitutes a psychotomimetic experience.

When small dose techniques are employed, the individual, by learning through gradually increased effort, as the dosage is increased from experience to experience, may well develop methods of controlling the effects of the drug according to his accustomed pattern of thinking. He may never come to the point of accepting and utilizing the alterations which the drug may make in the mould of feeling and thinking which initially induced his difficulties.

While this objection may be felt to be simply a play with words, it is a very serious one. True, the individual eventually learns, in a stabilized experience, to control and use the drug effects. However, this is a control based upon a new level of self-understanding and self-acceptance which alone can permit the acceptance of others. Unless this level of experience can be attained the therapeutic potential of the drug is not realized. If the person learns gradually to fit the drug effects into his accustomed self-concept, he is simply learning how to pigeon-hole the experience within an unaltered frame of reference. It is, in fact, the acquisition of the ability to remain unchanged. Not only is such a procedure unlikely to have any therapeutic effect but it tends to immunize against his ever being able to gain self-understanding through the psychedelic experience.

As Osmond has stated "our work started with the idea that a single overwhelming experience might be beneficial in alcoholics, the idea springing from James and Tiebout". We have discovered no reason to alter this view as regards the usefulness of the overwhelming experience. However, subsequent work has shown that it is often of great value to repeat the experience and has suggested that the method is applicable to the treatment of the neuroses and psychopathy as well as alcoholism.

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/guides/handbook_lsd25.shtml#3
 

st.bot.32

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that's very interesting actually, thanks for sharing
 

gallant86

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15 Mai 2009
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...but don't forget to dress in layers.

PS. It's a non-addictive cure to apathy. That is, if you ever want to go back, you'll find it cheaper that way.
 

UniversalConsciousness

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7 Avr 2009
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LSD is one of the safest substances known to man. It is physically safer than nearly every other drug. It's LD50 is as much as even pot or shrooms. It's also non-addictive, and like mushrooms you can't really trip more than a week due to tolerance and/or intensity issues.....though a smaller dose every 3 days is possible.

But you can have bad trips if you are in a bad setting. Then again the same is true for many other psychedelics. LSD should probably not be used by folks with a history of mental illness....especially psychosis.....but even in this case careful steps can be used to make sure this doesn't happen.....like how it was clinically used to treat schizophrenics in the 1950s and 1960s.

Look at the scientific literature if your not sure, but honestly once you experience it.....you will see that the propagandists are mostly bullshit.
 

JamBar

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25 Mar 2009
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Would taking LSD and going for a day long bicycle journey be a good idea? Do LSD and physical activities go together? I plan to do this, that's why I ask.
 

Brugmansia

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I strongly discourage participating in traffic while on any entheogen.

But LSD is unlike many other psychedelics, relatively straight and bright. It's fairly safe on a light/medium dose to cycle through nature if one is cautious and relax, I'd say. Especially after multiple acid experiences. I have done this myself but it wouldn't even cross my mind to do on mushrooms though.

Usually after 2-4 hours of the onset, you'll feel how capable you are in performing structured tasks.

Depending on where you live, it can be a strong violation of the law if you get caught. Although I belief it's manageable to hide your intoxination during any interaction. Apart from the dilated pupils. And LSD won't show up in a regular drug test.
 

Sticki

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I often find with LSD that when Im completely thru the peak of my trip, I feel alot more in control of my body from Breathing and Balance right thru to feeling like my muscles are working in sync with minimum loss of energy in transitions and a boost of energy levels in general. Bike ride sounds like fun :D

I would suggest that doing a medium to low dose indoors, Allowing yourself to peak and then when on the plateau and completely comfortable with your frame of mind adventuring out side as the safest way of going about it. Taking some one with you that is straight headed is also a good idea :)

Have fun if you do go mate :)
 

PsyKeDeLiK'MaN

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27 Mai 2009
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And so J-factor ? You tried ?

I've read your messages, and despite the fact you seem have the good attitude to try LSD, you don't act ...

Personnally, I've tried recently, with friends, in a good atmosphere ... (and I have to admit that I've did it again several times since the first time) There is no need to think a lot like you do, less you think, the best it is ... I took less time than you to act, but I have to admit that i have no regrets, I love LSD !

Each LSD experience seems different, especially the first one which was the less exciting. Thanks to Shiva, I've discovered more sensations than the first one; recently, I've discovered Hoffmann, and again, I've discovered new sensations. It's a drug who needs having the correct attitude I think ... Moreover, there is no physical dependance, it's the best drug ever I think, I don't wanna try any other drug ...

PS : sorry for my Englsih, i'm French and i promise to improve my english.
 

RushNerd

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27 Mai 2009
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I know Mr.Hofmann never intended to take that bicycle ride home in his state, but good GOD, I can't imagine working a bicycle while on acid. Could be fun though I suppose. Ideas?
 

J-Factor

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PsyKeDeLiK'MaN, thanks for the post.

To your disappointment, I have to admit that I still haven't tried it yet. It's not because i'm skeptical about it or anything, it's just that me and my buddy both still live at home, and finding a time where we could be alone and comfortable has been really difficult. Rest assured though, I really do want to try it, and the first chance I can get I will take.

Thanks for your support.
 

RushNerd

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27 Mai 2009
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Mr.Smith a dit:
i watched my friend Steve dismount his bike at 10-15 mph because he was convinced he'd stopped. that was funny
O_O
 

PsyKeDeLiK'MaN

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27 Mai 2009
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Concerning the bike, the last time i took a blotter ( blotter = buvard in french ?) was with 2 friends, for one of us, it was the first time, and he insisted the next morning to go home to sleep with his bike. Personnally, I didn't want, it seemed dangerous even if he had not a long distance to do ... But, I couldn't convince him ... he had no problem on his way finally but I was worry for him, if something had happened to him ...

So, would you advice someone to cycle on acid ? Or is it too dangerous ? I ask because my friend comes always with his bike (he has no car) and if he tries again, he will want go home with his bike. According to the example of Mr. Smith, it seems that it can be dangerous :?

J-Factor, ok, I don't know if it's hard to find it in Canada but good luck and I hope you'll give us your impressions.
 
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