Here's a fucking topic.

[Teonanacapilli]

Man, I liked where you were going with this topic. A few silly letters and we revert to paleohuman apes with language eh?

It's like that Bill Hicks piece on mandatory marijuana when the officer gives an angry, noisy driver a mandatory joint. "Shut up and smoke that" says the cop, "It's the law." Replies the driver after the smoke "Oh sorry, I was taking life seriously." Followed by "Oh man, who's hungry?" :lol:

So damn hard to communicate emotion with words alone. I think much of the misunderstandings and subsequent arguments/flames on forums are due to misread, misinterpreted or abandoned emotion within the text.

 

[HeartCore]

Trick you do realize GOD made those same types of statements "You fucking stoners!"

I like it, it make people show their true identities and emotions.

Fucking stoners is degrading and if you like that, it says a lot about how 'we' do 'their' work now (as in 'them' demonizing 'us')

In this so called civilized world we got rid of the N word, got women to vote, enabled gay people to live their lives freely as it should etc..

But be aware if you happen to choose a life of healthy 'drugs' instead of the crap that's being pushed on the global market like alcohol & tobacco. You get to be called retarded, fucking stoners, dumb shits, lazy long haired no good, criminal etc.

Even by your fellow stoners....

Don't you see how you that does not help the case in making the point that it's 'fucking drunk' and 'blissfull high' and not the other way around?

 

[trick]

This is all getting a bit to spicey for me
Moving on..

 

[IJesusChrist]

so how bout the weather? I mean am I right?

 

[GregKasarik]

OK Dudes, sorry to interupt the bitchfight (or had it finished, I didn't bother reading the last few posts), but I thought I might actually address the question posed by the OP.

I'm a mystic and spend quite a bit of time thinking about these things, even when I'm not tripping. My hobby could be said to be connecting with the Infinite and the Divine Mind. I am currently writing a book about my ideas.

Are you the only person? IMHO, the answer is an unequivocal "Yes". I have a phrase that I use to describe the concept behind it: I am god. You are god. We are God.

Ultimately it comes down to whether you believe you are an eternal being or not. If you believe that you are an eternal being, then you need to ask yourself the question of what you are going to spend your eternity doing. The answer to that is simple. Exactly what you are doing now. Living lives and overcoming challenges. The evidence for this is twofold, the first being statistical and the second relating to the Near Death Experience that people who die and return report.

The statistical proof simply asks what the odds are that you are an eternal being in its first 100 years of life. The answer to that is of course 1 over Infinity, or more potently impossibly small. Clearly then, if you are an infinite being, you are either infinitely old, or x number of years into your infinity, where x is a bloody huge number. From this, we can deduce that you are infinitely old and most likely spend a shitoload of your time living lives. But who's lives do you lead? Your own? Could you be living the same life, through an infinite number of variations? While possible, I'd suggest that it is doubtful.

Rather, you are living an infinite number of lives of all the people and sentient beings that inhabit this universe and all of the possible variations thereof. Why? Well in my theology, it is simply because God loves to explore all of the possibilities inherent in his creation. Why observe, when you can just jump straight in?

The evidence from the NDE comes from the fact that when we die, we have what is known as a "past life review". The funny thing about the past life review is that during it, we live our lives over again, but instead from the perspective of the people who we interacted with and affected during our stay here on earth. We can also experience the "possible" futures that might have been had we acted differently. What this tells us is that your greater consciousness has empathic access to the memories and lives of everyone and everything on this planet. In other words, it has/will lived all of those variants.

So what this tells us is that if you are infintie, it is quite likely that you are the only person. You are God!

There are other lines of thinking that reach the same conclusion, and there are some clear weaknesses in this argument that I'll leave others to find and point out. If you'd like to hear more, then I am happy to oblige.

Now, I don't expect anyone to take my word for it, which is cool. The first thing that a mystic learns is that when attempting to communicate an aspect of the infinite through the use of finite language is doomed to fail.

Indeed, another of my little proverbs is: "The first diciple is always the first heretic"!

 

[trick]

So on your god theory, i understand being a god with the whole butterfly effect, and also in the way you described it. but if we are ALL gods, and ALL have control over EVERYTHING, are we really gods? I mean i got this from wiki: 'god is most often conceived of as the supernatural creator and overseer of the universe.'

So in my eyes we are something else. Semi-gods. Because altho we are all creators of life(childbirth) and also takers of life, this is on a diffrent scale as the so called god character.

Well wait.. ok, im starting to understand, if you look at the 'universe' as YOUR personal surroundings and not all of outerspace, i guess we would all be gods of our own universes. But all of our universes are interconnected and each run off of eachother, so if i change ONE little thing in MY universe, it changes an infinate number of things in everone elses universe, so altho we might be gods and have allnatural power over everything, so does everyone else. I understand how we could all be gods, but i dont understand how we can ALL be gods.. know what i mean?

But please do continue, its been awhile since ive participated in real psychonautics on this forum

Idk i could have lost my grip on things, it a bit too early to be up for me. Im up early to actually meet someone from the forum, im quite excited.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Hi Wraith - I see what you are getting at, but it seems too psychadelic for me.

@ Trick,

Here's what I've seen on psychadelics: that reality as we see it, can be completely dessimated and destroyed - my reality can utterly change to a point where no one else but I exist in, and even if you directly and consciously interact with me - the "I" - me, myself, will not connect that to You, it will only be perceived with connection to ME.

Do you see what I mean here?

It's the fact that what we percieve is relative to how we think - you know how you may fall asleep in a car ride, and the car hits a bump, and rather than realizing its a bump in the car, you may experience an earthquake in your dream? Same deal with being 'god':

Even though there are other conscious beings, you, and you and you, I have the capability of veiling you out as something unconcscious, as simply a part of my vision, a part of my reality, and thusly I can predict you... etc. Now, predicting you is a false image, and is not a creation - this is the beauty of psychology.

If you understood any of that, good for you and good for me, means you can totally read retarded wording, and I can write semi-decently :wink:

 

[ophiuchus]

Hi Wraith - I see what you are getting at, but it seems too psychadelic for me.

@ Trick,

Here's what I've seen on psychadelics: that reality as we see it, can be completely dessimated and destroyed - my reality can utterly change to a point where no one else but I exist in, and even if you directly and consciously interact with me - the "I" - me, myself, will not connect that to You, it will only be perceived with connection to ME.

you are you, yet you exist as everyone, and/because you are god. (right now a piece of god percieving through god['s lenses]) also, i think what wraith said makes sense in my book, albeit delivered in a slightly hippyish (all possibilities are valid) tone ha. what about it is "too psychedelic for you"? i dont get that statement, unless THAT is the same ultimate feeling that you choose to ignore/shut out/or deny from your psychedelic trips? im wondering; do you see the correlation in what he said, and what i've been talking about more recently?

Do you see what I mean here?

It's the fact that what we percieve is relative to how we think - you know how you may fall asleep in a car ride, and the car hits a bump, and rather than realizing its a bump in the car, you may experience an earthquake in your dream? Same deal with being 'god':

how is that the same as an earthquake in a dream? remember that if what we percieve is relative to what we think, then what we think will be relative to what we actually percieve too..

Even though there are other conscious beings, you, and you and you, I have the capability of veiling you out as something unconcscious, as simply a part of my vision, a part of my reality, and thusly I can predict you... etc. Now, predicting you is a false image, and is not a creation - this is the beauty of psychology.

If you understood any of that, good for you and good for me, means you can totally read retarded wording, and I can write semi-decently :wink:

i dont understand, the wording, could you elaborate please?

 

[IJesusChrist]

I attempted to re-iterate what I've said without success - I will wait till tommorrow.

What I want to get across is that I can blanket this reality with a new vision - the vision operates differently than my old reality, however it still operates. What I was getting at with the dream and the bump in the car is that my perception of reality can be controlled in such a way as to make it reality, however it can be completely 180° from what you view, and your reality. That being said - I am god of my reality, and you, as long as you exist in my consciousness, operate under my rules, i.e. if your a bump in the road in your reality, you are no longer a bump, but an earthquake, and you being an earthquake has every effect of an earthquake. Simply the fact that we have dreams argues that we are god - in my perspective.

 

[GregKasarik]

So on your god theory, i understand being a god with the whole butterfly effect, and also in the way you described it. but if we are ALL gods, and ALL have control over EVERYTHING, are we really gods? I mean i got this from wiki: 'god is most often conceived of as the supernatural creator and overseer of the universe.'

The capitalisation of my quote is not accidental. "I am god. You are god. We are God".

We aren't all the supreme God. Instead, we are a unitary conciousness that makes up an infintimibly small sliver of the Divine. We don't have control over everything because that isn't the way the game is played. God is traditionally thought of as being omnipotent, but that would get real boring real quick. WTF is God going to do all day? Create universes and sit around watching them, like some sort of couch potato? No! Of course he isn't! Instead, he is going to create universes and then incarnate himself into them, as he actively explores the infinte.

My best guess is that our existence is God's way of keeping himself sane and with providing himself meaning. Satre was spot on in this respect. For God, there is no intrinsic meaning to the universe, so he has to either find some, or cease to have any conscious existence. We are that meaning.

In us, God will explore all of the possibilities and potentials inherent in our universe. This means that he will live your life, through you, just as he lives my life through me. Not only that, he will live enough variations of your life to get it to the point of perfection. Humanity is like a huge jigsaw puzzle, where God lives all of the lives, trying to get the pieces to fit and when he does, it will be amazing and glorious.

This is why we have evil in the universe. Its sad and distressing, but evil is interesting. Have you ever read a half way decent book that didn't have a bad guy? Of course not. Imagine Harry Potter, if the first chapter had opened with, "Harry lived under his uncles stairs and then Dumbledore waved his wand and everything was all better". It'd be crap, boring and lifeless. Evil gives us something to strive against, something to make our efforts have real meaning.

But just as Dumbledore in Harry Potter can't wave his magic wand and make things all better, neither can we. I'm a firm believer in the proposition that this universe of ours contains precicely NO supernatural elements whatsoever. There is no magic to make things easier. Only our own blood, sweat and tears can achieve the outcome that God is wanting to explore. Only this will make for interesting stories that God can be proud to have participated in. That is why you are a person and the world and your life appear to suck so badly... :wink:

But together we can forge a story that will make the universe stand on its head.

And of course, unlike the dicotomous perspective put forward by the major religions, there isn't just a single outcome that God hopes to achieve. There are an infinite number! Our lives could produce a world in which humanity achieves greatness through the use of entheogens, or it might be that instead we devote our lives to ending poverty, or advancing technology and humanity achieves its greatness through those efforts instead. Needless to say, many of the stories that God explores won't even include us, or even the human species. They'll take place in a totally different universe.

Remember, God has an Infinity to play with. Trust me when I say that an Infinity is a bloody long time. God could explore all the possibilities inherent in our universe as it stands today and still not have touched the sides of Eternity.

So in my eyes we are something else. Semi-gods. Because altho we are all creators of life(childbirth) and also takers of life, this is on a diffrent scale as the so called god character.

It is a different perspective, but may have a similar, if more limited meaning to what I said above.

Well wait.. ok, im starting to understand, if you look at the 'universe' as YOUR personal surroundings and not all of outerspace, i guess we would all be gods of our own universes. But all of our universes are interconnected and each run off of eachother, so if i change ONE little thing in MY universe, it changes an infinate number of things in everone elses universe, so altho we might be gods and have allnatural power over everything, so does everyone else. I understand how we could all be gods, but i dont understand how we can ALL be gods.. know what i mean?

I think I understand what you mean. Remember, that it is impossible to adequately convey any genuine spiritual insight. We are talking about the Infinite here, and there is no way that my snapshot of it will be identical to yours.

But if I understand you correctly, I have considered a similar idea and rejected it, as it just seemed far too convoluted. Now, this doesn't mean that it is wrong. It just means that it isn't how I see things. That is cool and the way it is supposed to be.

It is entirely possible that we are all infinite beings interacting with other infinite beings, with the crossover universe effects that you describe. Part of the reason that I decided against this, is because I believe that God is a being that is heading towards Omniscience and this means that as God, you will want to live the lives of other people. Think you can do a better job of being Hitler? Well you will get the opportunity to find out!

But please do continue, its been awhile since ive participated in real psychonautics on this forum

Idk i could have lost my grip on things, it a bit too early to be up for me. Im up early to actually meet someone from the forum, im quite excited.

You are making perfect sense. Ultimately we all need to believe what makes sense to us and anybody who claims that you should believe exactly what they believe does not understand the Infinite nature of the Divine Mind.

And yes, I am aware of the irony contained within the contradiction inherent in that last sentence...

 

[GregKasarik]

I attempted to re-iterate what I've said without success - I will wait till tommorrow.

What I want to get across is that I can blanket this reality with a new vision - the vision operates differently than my old reality, however it still operates. What I was getting at with the dream and the bump in the car is that my perception of reality can be controlled in such a way as to make it reality, however it can be completely 180° from what you view, and your reality. That being said - I am god of my reality, and you, as long as you exist in my consciousness, operate under my rules, i.e. if your a bump in the road in your reality, you are no longer a bump, but an earthquake, and you being an earthquake has every effect of an earthquake. Simply the fact that we have dreams argues that we are god - in my perspective.

This is an interesting perspective. Essentially, you seem to be saying that you feel that you have control over the master switch of "reality" and that the same reality can be percieved totally differently by both you and I?

If this is what you mean, then there is actually some crossover with what Trick was saying, when he posted the following:

Well wait.. ok, im starting to understand, if you look at the 'universe' as YOUR personal surroundings and not all of outerspace, i guess we would all be gods of our own universes. But all of our universes are interconnected and each run off of eachother, so if i change ONE little thing in MY universe, it changes an infinate number of things in everone elses universe, so altho we might be gods and have allnatural power over everything, so does everyone else. I understand how we could all be gods, but i dont understand how we can ALL be gods.. know what i mean?

Quoted for context not reply...

The really cool thing is that it is perfectly possible for your current experience to be a part of multiple universes. There are potentially an infinite number of ways in which you could have arrived at your present conscious state, and there are potentially an infinite number of paths leading from this point. I can easily imagine a convergence of universes, where in my universe there is no supernatural, but in yours there is. We'd very quickly part, but "you" would go on to experience supernatural in your universe. However, an equally valid "you" would also go on to experience the dissapointment of realising that he was wrong. That you would be the one manifested in "my" non supernatural version of the universe.

I love the Infinite!

 

[GregKasarik]

Hi Wraith - I see what you are getting at, but it seems too psychadelic for me.

LOL!! If I'm too psychadelic, then might I suggest upping the dose? Also, I find nitrous helps considerably for intense work with the Divine Mind.

Seriously though, the important thing to remember is that we are all different. There are approximately 6.7 Billion different "religions" on this planet as we speak. Not all are as valid as others, but ultimately, they all express what makes sense to the individuals who hold them.

 

[ophiuchus]

I attempted to re-iterate what I've said without success - I will wait till tommorrow.

What I want to get across is that I can blanket this reality with a new vision - the vision operates differently than my old reality, however it still operates. What I was getting at with the dream and the bump in the car is that my perception of reality can be controlled in such a way as to make it reality, however it can be completely 180° from what you view, and your reality. That being said - I am god of my reality, and you, as long as you exist in my consciousness, operate under my rules, i.e. if your a bump in the road in your reality, you are no longer a bump, but an earthquake, and you being an earthquake has every effect of an earthquake. Simply the fact that we have dreams argues that we are god - in my perspective.

you literally mean "an earthquake" or... im not sure i get that yet..? what about being able to "predict" me? can you do that in your "false image"? i think i *might* know what you mean..
im starting to get it maybe, but perhaps not quite the same as you. or maybe im just not picking up what your putting down at all :roll: ... if im right, i think it's over a technicality really.. i agree with your entire statement, except that i believe that ones "vision", ones reality, is inherently false no matter what, not due to the fact that what we see is false, it's that what we use to communicate what we see, is always going to be a mere approximation, false. and i believe that that is the same archetype that you see as the veil, the blanket, i believe they are one and the same. you create this blanket of concepts. for example, any time you even think about something that happened, it is false, (not your memory of it, that is true unless you forget or it's distorted) but in the sense that you think in manmade words/concepts (subjective creation of humankind) or you think in concepts of the same, human, nature. it's not that what you see is false, it's that what you say, is something that man made to approximate things, and so in that, it can never be accurate. is this on track, or am i not getting the subtleties of your explanation? i realize im trying to explaining it for my point of view, but am i even talking about the right thing haha? :roll: :lol:

mans creations are inherently "false" or rather innaccurate, as well because anything that man has manifested for communication/recording data is entirely subjective to the distributer/consumer's inherent(ly false[subjective]) interpretation. my idea of

 

[trick]

Holy shit, i took one day off the forum to meet a friend who i met on here and i miss all this?? I dont have time to read ALL of the new posts but i scanned and saw this:

The capitalisation of my quote is not accidental. "I am god. You are god. We are God

I diddnt quite catch that, that actually clears alot up for me .
Ill go over the posts and get back to using my brain soon, hopefully later today.
Im glad to see were finally on about something usefull and not just taking the piss ya know?

 

[IJesusChrist]

Adrian, you have it... you just aren't seeing it. Which, might I say, isn't quite possible unless you're under some influence...

When I saw it, I couldn't handle it, and even now, it doesn't make sense to me, until I see it. And exactly like you said, once I try to explain it in words - it is no longer truthful, it is no longer reality. Both in that you won't understand, and that I don't understand anymore. For if I am explaining it, I most certainly am not experiencing it's vision.

It took me much time to finally say when I see it, or when I feel it; "This isn't a bad thing."

I don't know why it plucked my strings so well, it just seems to make things too simple, too ego-centric, which I didn't like when I saw it. I can't truthfully say it's beautiful (yet) but I can say it is not a negative vision anymore.

To be honest, it consumes all my trips... it's basically all I can think about while altered to a higher state of mind... Never constructively do I think or examine it though...

It's kind of like wraith said, it's seeing that you have the master switch; that you are the one pulling the curtains, setting the stages. It's like you control the others minds (not that you absolutely do) in order to fit your reality.

It's just all perception I suppose.

Like I said - the next month or so, change in seasons = i'm going to be a little loopy

 

[GregKasarik]

For those of you who are wondering, I asked the Mods to change my username from Wraithcat to my proper IRL name. I'm sick of hiding behind pseudonyms and as I intend to work to change the world to more adequately reflect my image, I see no reason to not be open and honest about who I am.

So where you see "Wraith" in the previous part of the threads, insert "Greg".

 

[trick]

nice to meet you Greg.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I have a fear of SWIM. No nameing from me!

 

[trick]

Wow, so i just sat down and read your massive post that i skimmed over b4 greg, and i must sa im impressed with how you see things, and im also starting to see that this hash is making me stupid. I found myself rereading each paragraph after i read it . But i would quite enjoy a book written by you on this subject. Keep the forums posted on how the book is coming, you have one reader here.
speaking of being open, i DID have a picture of my face as an avitar, but i recently changed my mind about sharing my face/location ext for the sake of BEING open, this way i dont have to worry too much about what im talking about.

and @ ijesuschrist, ill continue to be a SWIMmer also. :axe: you can never be to safe.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Hmmm,

I'm going to go ahead and say this @ you greg, and I am interested in your reply;

I am a firm believer than the universe is a fractal. You go infinitely outwards, infinitely inwards, and I believe it goes on forever. I do not believe if you go small enough, than all of a sudden you will re-enter a previous "size" i.e. you continually get smaller and smaller, you will not end up looking at the universe - it is not a spacial loop, as some cool you-tube videos may elude to. I am feeling rather stupid right now so bear with me (its friday).

So, we take the fact that the universe is a fractal, if you know the definition of a fractal, you know it is composed of one entity - an equation. This one equation, although finite in length and complexity, gives rise to an infinitely complex product. If you know even a little more, and have a little insight you will realize that fractals aren't actually a real mathematical entity - they are argueably simple 'tricks' you can do to an equation - meaning you need some outside 'operator' or generator to create the fractal from the equation.

I believe this is god, this operator; the equation can change, can be manipulated, yet a fractal is always present. Now, this is too psychadelic for my taste, and I really don't believe this too a fulle extent, it is just a beautiful interpretation of my belief. What I believe (fifty percent of the time) is that we are the illusion of a single entity - that 'equation' if you will - expressed in an infinitely large playing field. If the equation changes, everything else does, including your memories, the laws of physics, everything, its as if you were to be set in a new persons body, with ne memories, at every moment - there is no way you could tell that you have switched perceptions, since you would have no memories tied to the old self, but you would have completely new memories. This is STILL too psychadelic for me so I refine it further -

There is no way to tell whether there was actually a past, or a future, nor can we ever be sure that we have experienced anything, or if it is actually just a byproduct of the equation... Taking this further still I enter what I believe in:

This is a bit deep, and a bit simple at the same time, so I hope you understand. We; you and I, are simply experiences of a single speck of time. We have infinitely many paths, however to change paths, the past must also be changed - so everything including laws still function correctly, yet as before, we can never tell for sure whether the past has changed or the future. As if we are watching a movie screen, and if the movie changes, so does our memory of the movie to match. This is too scientific for me, so proceed to belief #2.

I believe psychadelics are the gate-way to understanding that the universe is a fractal, and that even our minds operate with fractals (smoke a high dose of salvia). We are simply experienceing an ever shifting world, with the illusion that we have some sort of control - that we have some kind of will, when, in my vision, the only thing we are capable of is experiencing.

Now, that being said, I only believe that 50% of the time.

Belief #2:The other 50% I believe in simply promoting happiness, to all forms of life. I want to communicate with all, and to learn as much as I can. That is my true religion. Believing my first post will lead to insanity if followed religiously >50% of the time :roll: