Empathize and be more than an animal

[Iersuko]

You're so very right. Revolution comes first. Then evolution. Revolution is almost always an outside influence. Something that gives us a kick in the ass..

So your daughter was your kick. But you said smoking kind of coincided with your evolution?

 

[devildust1982]

Smoking is in a way masochistic for me. It helps me often to see more vividly the errors in my ways as it causes me to be more introspective. So in a way it makes me feel "bad" about myself but in a better light it shows me the ways I can improve.

 

[Iersuko]

Do you think of how your actions may affect others?
Do you think about negativity or or doing harm towards individuals or groups of people when under the influence?

 

[devildust1982]

the first option. no interest in being harmful.

 

[Iersuko]

Ok. Do you ever watch sports sober?
Have you ever watched sports high?

 

[itsscience]

I like to think that the reality is a mid point between the two norms you are each arguing for.

It seems to me that devildust is advocating that the human condition is flawed and we will never rectify it and so mistrust and deceit will characterise our existence.

On the other hand Iersuko is taking the stance that there is good in the human condition and eventually we will evolve to a sort of nirvana on earth where everyone can peacefully coexist.

I know that I fervently hope Iersuko is right.

BUT

I think society and the human condition can't be looked at from the perspective of our own current space and time but needs to be looked at in its entirety, from the beginning of civilisation to the current day. Devildust alluded to the current amorality of American society but one could say the same about Roman or Latin society thousands of years ago - orgies, gladiators etc. In between those times we have periods of absolute puritanism (for example the time of the inquisition when the naked form was considered evil as was everything other than prayer and bread and water) and to me this suggests that human civilisation (or at least the morals that guide it) exist as a sort of pendulum where we swing (over generations) from one extreme to the other and all the points in between. I like to think that, as with a pendulum, that eventually the momentum will settle down to close to a middle point between absolute depravity and nirvana.

A thought that is interesting in a debate like this is how do you think our interactions with each other would change if we were attacked by and at war with an alien race. It's a pure hypothetical but I think we would treat each other much better if there was a threat from space - sure we would still have the greedy manipulative souls on the extreme of the pendulum but I think that many of those who are not so extreme in their greed/selfishness would change their ways in response to the threat from outside.

 

[Iersuko]

Yea I believe the alien theory is spot on.
I like that pendulum theory, I never thought of it like that before and it sounds pretty accurate considering human history.
We've been very lucky there hasn't been any ice ages or major pandemics to knock us back down.
I believe our technology, as meager as it is, gives us an opportunity to expand our knowledge through dialogue with people we wouldn't have had the chance to converse with just ten years ago let alone a thousand.
We can literally be anywhere on the planet within 24 hours with flight, and see things for ourselves. There is no longer an excuse to remain naive about anything. If we all do our part and make injustice known whenever we have some ones ear Ignorance for the most part is bound to be eradicated and we as a people will most likely adopt a higher sense of morality that's not religiously driven but logic driven.

 

[devildust1982]

Ok. Do you ever watch sports sober?
Have you ever watched sports high?

No TV in our house so no. I never watched them when we did have TV though either. I don't do it personally for any sort of "entertainment value" and I don't want to do it forever. I'm trying to use it as a vehicle for self improvement but I don't want to be driving forever.

Feel free to correct me but it sounds like maybe you feel like smoking was your kick in the ass?

I have to disagree with your idea of "good" = "logic driven" society. I think you were more correct with your idea of empathy. I think you have to feel to be human. To function on logic alone would make us nothing more than computers or robots. I think the beauty of life is to feel.

Thank you itsscience for your interpretation. I agree mostly with what you're saying. I think that middle ground of the pendulum is more realistic....better than we are now, but far from Iersuko's perfection.

 

[Apeiron]

No not smoking but traveling abroad..
At no time did I say perfection would be reached.
Making decisions based solely on feelings and emotion leads to irrational and unnecessarily asinine actions.
Emotions and feelings as you know them are nothing more than chemical reactions in your brain that influence, mostly negatively, otherwise logical thought processes in our feeble minds.
The lack of or suppression of these chemicals during the evolution of our minds will make us no less humane nor turn us into a computer, any more than the loss of fur during our physical evolution made us into a dolphin. 
It will only be different from what we are used to now and seem that way looking forward. 
In the future it will seem just as natural to us as choosing sides and being competitive is to us now.
They will look back on us with our iPhones as we look back on people of the stone age with their stone tools.
As we change, our definition of what it is to be human shall change. It's relative. 
Empathy is not only a display of emotion although it may manifest in this way, though I think in most cases it is only a posture that people take up to "look normal" to society in a given situation.

Empathy is  1. the intellectual identification with OR vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.

It is very possible to empathize with out a display. 

And I reiterate I did not once mention perfection in society. 
Anywhere. 
Nothing is ever 100%

I don't expect you to be able to see these things coming or look upon them in a positive light.
Our parents never imagined today would be the way it is.

Sorry for the different SN. I believe my account was compromised.

 

[Jerika_Rain]

I was unable to login into my screenname as well. Mods is there a problem somewhere?