Empathize and be more than an animal

[Iersuko]

Shed your conscious perspective.
Your ego. Your upbringing. Your thirst. Your hunger. Your wants and needs.
Only then are you able to see things from different perspectives and truly understand them.
It works both ways.

Shed your bias.
Neutralize your own thinking like a civilized being.
Or continue to neutralize each others bodies like animals.

 

[itsscience]

I think many animals display empathy and I think it is vitally important to remember that we are also animals and part of the natural system, not outside of it.

Shedding your ego and your upbringing is virtually impossible for 99% of us and I include myself in that 99%. However, I have begun recently to try very hard to recognise when my actions are the result of my ego and upbringing rather than my true nature. It is massively difficult to do and 9 times out of 10 I fail BUT I am beginning to understand just how much I am influenced, both negatively and positively, by my upbringing and ego (both of which seem to be intrinsically linked).

 

[Iersuko]

Improbable yes. If you as a psychonaut can't strive for ego release of course you can't expect any Joe blow on the street to. Not saying you or anyone else does expect anything of anyone but maybe low expectations are the reason some cant acheived. Encouragement is encouraged.

 

[devildust1982]

I am confounded by the notion that to have empathy you must channel the animal. empathy i feel is much more of a human characteristic than animal. when my roomate lost her father, i empathized with her because I imagined what i would feel like in her position. having lost my sister, i found it conceivably easier than most to have this sense of empathy for her. I fancy a squirrel or a racoon would not share this ability.

To not have empathy makes one not human. To have empathy and expoit said understood feelings makes one a psychopath.

I do not understand the role one's ego plays in empathy. I see it as selfish versus selfless but i may be reading it wrong. A further explanation would be appreciated.

Without perfect understanding of your message, Joe Blow is capable as everyone else. No one man is better than the next or more or less capable. Saying that 99% of people can't do something is colouring the world with a very wide brush is it not?

 

[Iersuko]

I am confounded by the notion that to have empathy you must channel the animal. empathy i feel is much more of a human characteristic than animal. when my roomate lost her father, i empathized with her because I imagined what i would feel like in her position. having lost my sister, i found it conceivably easier than most to have this sense of empathy for her. I fancy a squirrel or a racoon would not share this ability.

To not have empathy makes one not human. To have empathy and expoit said understood feelings makes one a psychpath.

I do not understand the role one's ego plays in empathy. A further explanation would be appreciated.

Ego is a Latin word meaning "I", cognate with the Greek "??? (Ego)" meaning "I". - wikipedia-

What you're thinking is right. The ego plays no part in empathy. Empathy is the direct result when ego in NOT involved at all..

Ego is "Me. Me. Me. Mine. Mine. Mine. My. My. My."
Empathy considers the perspective of all.

 

[devildust1982]

I am confounded by the notion that to have empathy you must channel the animal. empathy i feel is much more of a human characteristic than animal. when my roomate lost her father, i empathized with her because I imagined what i would feel like in her position. having lost my sister, i found it conceivably easier than most to have this sense of empathy for her. I fancy a squirrel or a racoon would not share this ability.

To not have empathy makes one not human. To have empathy and expoit said understood feelings makes one a psychpath.

I do not understand the role one's ego plays in empathy. A further explanation would be appreciated.

Ego is a Latin word meaning "I", cognate with the Greek "??? (Ego)" meaning "I". - wikipedia-

What you're thinking is right. The ego plays no part in empathy. Empathy is the direct result when ego in NOT involved at all..

Ego is "Me. Me. Me. Mine. Mine. Mine. My. My. My."
Empathy considers the perspective of all.

Thank you for the clarification. However it does then sound as if they are inherently related in the sense then that ego and empathy are mutually exclusive.

I was mostly confused by your comment "I think many animals display empathy and I think it is vitally important to remember that we are also animals and part of the natural system, not outside of it" and your thread title "empathize and be more than an animal." Those are themselves incongruent.

In has also occurred to me quite recently that we as a people use things like "upbringing" as an excuse. I myself am guilty of this. I recently completed reading the diary of anne frank and it's impressive at the insight of such a young girl. A quote that stuck out to me was "all children must look after their own upbringing. parents can only give good advice or put them on the right paths, but the final forming of a person's character lies in their own hands."

This is a thought that reverberated strongly with me. Upbringing is a crutch, religion is a crutch, culture is a crutch, environment is a crutch. They are justifications for our personal failures. The final forming of a person's character lies in their own hands.

 

[Iersuko]

I am confounded by the notion that to have empathy you must channel the animal. empathy i feel is much more of a human characteristic than animal. when my roomate lost her father, i empathized with her because I imagined what i would feel like in her position. having lost my sister, i found it conceivably easier than most to have this sense of empathy for her. I fancy a squirrel or a racoon would not share this ability.

To not have empathy makes one not human. To have empathy and expoit said understood feelings makes one a psychpath.

I do not understand the role one's ego plays in empathy. A further explanation would be appreciated.

Ego is a Latin word meaning "I", cognate with the Greek "??? (Ego)" meaning "I". - wikipedia-

What you're thinking is right. The ego plays no part in empathy. Empathy is the direct result when ego in NOT involved at all..

Ego is "Me. Me. Me. Mine. Mine. Mine. My. My. My."
Empathy considers the perspective of all.

Thank you for the clarification. However it does then sound as if they are inherently related in the sense then that ego and empathy are mutually exclusive.

I was mostly confused by your comment "I think many animals display empathy and I think it is vitally important to remember that we are also animals and part of the natural system, not outside of it" and your thread title "empathize and be more than an animal." Those are themselves incongruent.

Oh I see. The title of the topic are my words but the comment in quotations is not. I didn't understand the pertinence of the comment in question myself..

I'm not saying we should forget the fact that we are animals nor am I denying that there are other animals in the world that empathize. I would just rather we empathize in an attempt to better understand one another and celebrate similarities instead of focusing on difference that we disrespect each other over and in extreme circumstances, kill for.

Push the boundaries of our knowledge, understanding and tolerance.
Learn how to ask questions at the source and be able to accept the truth from the horses mouth and judge ones self instead of judging the horse.
Not being afraid of being a "sympathizer of the opposition" no matter how negative the connotation.

 

[devildust1982]

Ah my apologies. I misread it as one comment instead of a response from someone else. This explains most of the confusion!!

Then in accordance with your original statement, I believe that the ability to empathize is a vital component to a "whole" person.

Part of the problem with our society and with the world as a whole is people's general willingless to treat people in a manner that completely lacks consideration for their circumstance, beliefs, experience etc....

I posed this question in another part of the forum but I think society as a whole lacks a sense of morality...not in the religious moralality sense but moreso in a sense of universal morality and accountability to each other.

I am not of the school of the "horse's mouth." I welcome dissention from anyone on the forum but in the same vain as our general lack of morality, our world is filled with wolves in horse suits. Our government lies to us everyday. The news skews stories to be perceived in the way that they desire. People steal from each other. College kids tell their professor they can't take a test because their grandmother died. Priests and pastors lead followers while behind closed doors they molest young boys. Am I to put my faith in all those horses?

No offense intended but you seem to speak from a very idealistic and almost naive point of view. The world we live in is a series of decpetion and lies passed off as truth for self serving purposes. I think the real issue is that people are selfish.

When I realized this, I picked up my daughter and moved. I moved to a very small rural area. We don't have a TV in our home. I understand truth as I experience it. I live my life in the most selfless way I can for her. That is how I have begun to find fulfillment and release.

 

[Iersuko]

Yes. Everything black and white. No shades of gray/grey.
Us vs. Them mentality.

 

[devildust1982]

Yes. Everything black and white. No shades of gray/grey.
Us vs. Them mentality.

I prefer grey. Who is us and who is them?

 

[Iersuko]

Exactly. I believe the only way we as a planet can truly reach prosperity unfathomable by most is if we all unite and enjoy each others company and trust.
Get gray. Nice and neutral

 

[itsscience]

My comment about it being vitally important to realise we are animals stems from the fact that the majority of humans see themselves as somehow outside the natural systems of the earth. It is this attitude that leads to the degradation of the planet and of each other.

 

[devildust1982]

As I said in my previous post, naive and idealistic. You're not alone in that certainly, but the "everyone treat each other right and we all will hug and get along" is not realistic.

Deception in society is RAMPANT. How many people in Africa have AIDS because they were deceived by their government. I would like to think I wouldn't even have to get into how the American people were deceived with this war against terror bullshit and the Bush administration.

How do you unite and trust in a society dominated by lies and desire for self? Fact and fiction in this world aren't black and white, they are grey (or gray as you prefer).

Before someone tells me to get off my soapbox, it's only been in the past two years about that I really started embracing truth in my life. My truth telling and my cannabis smoking coincided oddly enough.

I used to be a habitual liar. I lied because I could get my way. I lied because it was easy. I never had a value for the truth. It was never important to me. If you haven't gathered yet, I wasn't the best kid lol. I lied to honest people because they wanted to believe everyone was honest like them and would believe anything I said with a straight face and conviction. The funniest part is I would get pissed off when someone called me a liar...how dare someone call my bluff. I lied so much I started to believe my stories.

My husband left me as a result of my deception. I moved with my daughter from California to Oregon. We moved to a small town and I started to think a lot more about life and people. And started to smoke haha (bad influences in this small town ).

I decided to make a change in my life and be honest at all costs. Sorry for all the backstory, but it just leads me to my point, it's so idealistic to want everyone to "unite and trust."

My question to you is how can you even entertain this idea? How do you wipe the slate clean? My family still doesn't trust half the shit I say. Why would they? My mom would ask me if I saw the money she left on the counter and I would tell her no when the shit was in my pocket. Why would she trust me? I don't expect my ex husband, my mom & stepdad, my friends to trust me. I sailed that ship and as the captain of it, I have to accept that.

The change that I made was for my daughter. I was digusted at the thought that she would end up like me.

Sorry for the rant and I hope it doesn't offend you but I think your notion of unity and trust is laughable at best. And I'm sorry if you're just a sweet kid who never told a lie but you're idea is unrealistic in every way. While there are honest people out there, they are the ones that get lied to the most.

I am not a religious person but I do believe in a form of "karma" in that in this world we reap what we sow. I burned many a bridge in my life and have to pay for it, but who is to blame? Me. The world isn't never going to be united and happy as one...there is too much "bad karma," if you will, owed to people to have the purity you want.

I hope someday you wake up a little.

 

[devildust1982]

My comment about it being vitally important to realise we are animals stems from the fact that the majority of humans see themselves as somehow outside the natural systems of the earth. It is this attitude that leads to the degradation of the planet and of each other.

I understand better now. Thanks for that clarification. We should indeed think of ourselves as part of a whole instead of an independent being out for self serving motives.

 

[Iersuko]

Well I didn't say it would happen today this year or this decade for that matter. But if we all make a conscious effort to raise our children again and not the let the television do our job as parents, the next generation may have a shot. Or perhaps just natural evolution of the mind and thought.
I'm sure most of the population of the world had never even seen or heard of another race of people in a land too far away to fathom in the 1500's.. Let alone being able to accept them.. And as equals!? Lol forget about it
You came to your realization over time. What makes you think most of the world can't do the same?
You didn't offend means I have no intentions of offense. I feel what your saying though.

 

[devildust1982]

Being such a dreamer must leave you disappointed a lot.

While I whole heartedly believe in parenting your children (if you recall, we have no tv and I changed for an honest spirit in my daughter), parenting isn't going to create the utopia you so desire.

The human condition is inherently flawed. As long as there is free will, people will do right and people will do wrong. We live in a world of variation without which we could not exist and with variation comes inconsistancies, incongruencies. People adapt, societies change but there will always be dissention.

It did take me time to make changes in my life but with the clarity I have now, it took me far too long. Being honest with someone is the most basic form of respect. With that said, consider then how much "disrespect" exists.

Here is what we can agree on I think: strive to be a better person each day, give respect and all that that emcompasses to your family, friends, loved ones etc, raise your children to understand and practice the aforementioned ideals.

What I feel we don't agree on is why we should do that. Do what's right because it's right and moral. That's it. If that ultimately in a zillion years produces the society you dream of, hip hip hooray, but I hope that it's not your expectation.

 

[Iersuko]

No because I don't have expectations of these things happening in my lifetime and I'm realistic enough to accept that fact. Believe it or not everything starts from conception. It's the realization that takes patience.

 

[devildust1982]

Let's just look at America...it seems that you are hugely underestimating the moral degradation of this society. what prevails? materialism, sex, self. If you yourself are not devoid of these wanton desires and you are this idealistic optimistic being, how do you expect change in those who arent.

If these are not issues you struggle with, kudos to you, but I've really yet to encounter a person who is completely above this.

It is your honest belief that all people can do so?

 

[Iersuko]

Perhaps not all beings that exist right now. And certainly not ALL beings ever. But eventually most will. I know it's possible for each and every one of us to achieve it. Because I was once as wanton, greedy, deceptive and lustful as the worst and still have my moments. I am by no means perfect. Perfection is an opinion so in theory is unattainable. But striving for "perfection" for me means seeing my flaws (internal) and working on them. Really if I can do it anybody can...
Everybody in the world, pretty much, knows the world is fucked up, including idealist and I. People only settle for it because they feel they have to. In light of recent events the breaking point of their awakening is fast approaching.

 

[devildust1982]

I am not sure as to which recent events you refer. I applaud you for your attempts at personal growth as we should all strive to do the same. In theory all are capable, but all and I don't even think most are willing.

I shutter to think at the type of person I would be without my child. I was hugely deceitful, hugely materialistic, completely self absorbed. I permanently scarred my family, ruined a marriage with a great guy becauase I only considered myself, lost nearly all of my friends. I was lucky enough that my daughter changed my life.

I HAD to change my life. Not everyone has a motivation. Not eveyone and I would venture to say MOST don't have the esoteric motivation for self improvement. And that is the very reason that I don't have much faith that it will happen. People, myself included, change to be better for someone else.....they rarely change because they themselves desire to be a "good" person. It seems that far more often it comes at the hand of an outside influence.

I am aware that I am making a big generalization with that statement, but in my personal experience, that has been the case. My guess is that you have a child that influenced your change.

Why is it that we as a people need an external influence to embrace morality? Why don't we hold ourselves to the highest standard?