Does anyone study mathematics?

[IJesusChrist]

ZzZzZzZzZzZz... Why do you think it is true mathematics?

 

[BrainEater]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz.... ur philosophy is "i think, therefore i am". would it be "i am, therefore i think", would you still not be recognizing it?? or how come u strictly have to divide "true" mathematics from nature?? nature is the first and ultimate designer and it DOES use fractal geometry. to me nature is THE true mathematician out there, anyway...

 

[trick]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz.... ur philosophy is "i think, therefore i am". would it be "i am, therefore i think", would you still not be recognizing it?? or how come u strictly have to divide "true" mathematics from nature?? nature is the first and ultimate designer and it DOES use fractal geometry. to me nature is THE true mathematician out there, anyway...

i aggree man.
Humans are simply the ones studying mothernatures form of math and trying to put it into a language understandable/teachable to our puney brains. We are the wana-bes, altho some preform better than others.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Fractals are simple, they are a language of math like base 10, base 2, except they use variables, dependance on space & time. Like an ever changing function who's base changes with respect to space & time...

So, It is mathematics, it's just a different type from our geometry - it's outside euclidian, hyperbolic, parabolic geometry.

We don't study it.

 

[BrainEater]

so is that right, you don't study em because they are too simple for the "higher" mathematicians like yours truly??? haha... :lol:
nature is the designer of you, everything and everybody else too... hence nature is the inventor/designer of any contained intelligence, which includes the symbols and the thusly created language.
it's not so much if at all bullshitting, to say that nature is THE higher intelligence. its language is pure mathematics, being one of its most re-fined creations, while also appearing to be one powerful tool to do so in the first place.

 

[Guest]

So you're telling us that because of what you say, mathematicians can't decide which field of study they will concentrate their efforts on?

 

[BrainEater]

no, or at least that's not what i wanted to be telling. i generally deem mathematicians to be intelligent enough to decide for themselves what thoughts or other observations they might want to put the focus of their minds' eyes spotlight on.

 

[IJesusChrist]

they aren't studied because they are fairly uncommon in our societies needs. We need calculus and algebra, geometrical maths.

Fractal maths are rarely needed for anything, even in math.

 

[BrainEater]

however nature keeps operating on it.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I don't think nature actually uses fractals, it uses natural and logrithmic forces and tendencies.

there are no REAL fractals in nature, that we know of.

The brocolli & crystal formations can be solved and completely accounted for by mathematics without fractals

 

[BrainEater]

i guess you're right!!

however it may still be nature by itself is a fractal design...the nature of nature in its entirety and in all its aspects/facets is essentially inconceivable...

 

[figment]

I am not a mathematician but I am in scientific computing so I know a thing or 2. I truly love doing proofs and I also studied some other mathematics for fun like group theory and things about the foundation of mathematics etc.

Here is a quote that describes my feelings towards mathematics:

Mathematics, rightly viewed, possesses not only truth, but supreme beauty—a beauty cold and austere, like that of sculpture, without appeal to any part of our weaker nature, without the gorgeous trappings of painting or music, yet sublimely pure, and capable of a stern perfection such as only the greatest art can show. The true spirit of delight, the exaltation, the sense of being more than man, which is the touchstone of the highest excellence, is to be found in mathematics as surely as in poetry. What is best in mathematics deserves not merely to be learnt as a task, but to be assimilated as a part of daily thought, and brought again and again before the mind with ever-renewed encouragement. Real life is, to most men, a long second-best, a perpetual compromise between the ideal and the possible; but the world of pure reason knows no compromise, no practical limitations, no barrier to the creative activity embodying in splendid edifices the passionate aspiration after the perfect from which all great work springs. Remote from human passions, remote even from the pitiful facts of nature, the generations have gradually created an ordered cosmos, where pure thought can dwell as in its natural home, and where one, at least, of our nobler impulses can escape from the dreary exile of the actual world. - Bertrand Russell

 

[IJesusChrist]

Ok, I don't like math THAT much... but interesting quote.

I do believe that the universe is, in essense, a fractal braineater. Infinitely complex, yet governed by one rule.

 

[dehn]

I study mathematics. I think my favorite fields are topology (some kind of abstract and very general geometry) and differential geometry (geometry of the spaces on which you can make calculus), but I could change my mind in the future. I'm also more and more interested in category theory, which can be seen as an alternative theory for the foundations of mathematics in which the focus is put on the relations between objects, and not on the objects themselves like in set theory.

true mathematicians do not recognize fractals as true mathematics.

I strongly disagree with that. Why aren't fractals true mathematics?

they aren't studied because they are fairly uncommon in our societies needs. We need calculus and algebra, geometrical maths.

Fractal maths are rarely needed for anything, even in math.

That's true, but that doesn't make fractals less interesting. You can study mathematics only for themselves, it's not because you can't build a highway, send people on the moon or predict stock exchange behaviour with a theorem that this theorem is not interesting.
Actually I think that most recent developments in mathematics don't have any application outside of mathematics.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Fractals are really interesting, I wouldn't say anything else. And yes you're right, most real mathematics is studied for... mathematics, and not real world implecations. I was told a while ago why fractals aren't "real mathematics" but I can't remember why, it has more to do with they don't actually represent what they show until they are manipulated in some type of ... oh I don't remember I don't want to misquote anything.

I am studying line integrals at the moment, I like them

the mathematics behind quantum chemistry however is stupid. IT's all probability, I strongly believe there are certaintys in quantum mechanics beyond the hydrogen atom.

 

[BrainEater]

well, do you consider quantifications of "waves" instead of "points", to be exponentially more complicated in calculations or shall i say calculability, regarding a growing nature of complexity, when comparing both mentioned forms as mathematical information vessels, if you will?

apart of that i do agree mathematics can be like architecture, basically. given, you have a mind to keep the plans or the buildings so they don't get lost. :mrgreen:

 

[dehn]

well, do you consider quantifications of "waves" instead of "points", to be exponentially more complicated in calculations or shall i say calculability, regarding a growing nature of complexity, when comparing both mentioned forms as mathematical information vessels, if you will?

Sorry I didn't understand what you mean (maybe because of my English).

But about the fractals, what's true is that you can't efficiently study them without the use of a computer. Actually that's probably why fractals appeared so late in mathematics (Mandelbrot first introduced them in the 70's I think). To me that doesn't make them less math, but some people (mathematicians or not) may think so.

 

[IJesusChrist]

well, do you consider quantifications of "waves" instead of "points", to be exponentially more complicated in calculations or shall i say calculability, regarding a growing nature of complexity, when comparing both mentioned forms as mathematical information vessels, if you will?

apart of that i do agree mathematics can be like architecture, basically. given, you have a mind to keep the plans or the buildings so they don't get lost. :mrgreen:

i dont know how waves have anything to do with fractals?

 

[BrainEater]

... infinity :arrow: light's particle-wave dualism :arrow: different densities of possible locations of electrons in atoms :arrow: quantum mechanics :arrow: fractals ...

 

[IJesusChrist]

uhh I don't see the connection in your last arrow?