DMT and Health - Question.

[DaZeD]

Hi!
I searched a bit around for the possible risks of somking NN-DMT on the health, but I only found this little article on Erowid, and that's not even about NN-DMT only about 5-MeO;

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/5meo_dm ... alth.shtml

And a little more here;

http://www.urban75.com/Drugs/drugmisc.html#DMT

When I look under NN-DMT there's no information about health issues there, although, I can't believe that smoking DMT is without any risks, since the smoke is very chemical and harsh for the lungs.

I understand that if you smoke DMT only once in a while the possible risks are very minimal, but I still like to know a bit more about it.
I assume that the way it's extracted plays an important role in the toxicity of the smoke.

So, if anyone knows a bit more about this, I'd be happy to know.
Thanks!

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

When I look under NN-DMT there's no information about health issues there, although, I can't believe that smoking DMT is without any risks, since the smoke is very chemical and harsh for the lungs.

I didn't check out the Erowid pages yet (could you perhaps copy & paste relevant paragraphs here?) but there are a few things to remember:

Though we tend to say "smoking DMT" it's actually not smoke at all, it's vapor. And though we say it has a "chemical smell" and it may be produced by a chemist, it's 100% natural to your body, and not toxic at all. If I'm not mistaken, DMT is even produced (in small quantities) in the lungs, so even the location where the vapor arrives is already designed for the transportation of this substance. I'm not sure what the effects of the crystalline structures are to the bronchia (if DMT crystallizes at all at body temperature), but it can't be significant.

 

[Psyolopher]

I think the biggest Risk here is mental health issues.....

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I think the biggest Risk here is mental health issues.....

I don't think so. What do you mean exactly?

 

[Psyolopher]

I think the biggest Risk here is mental health issues.....

I don't think so. What do you mean exactly?

Well i've never tried DMT, but since it is the strongest and fastest acting Psychedelic drug known to man....it has to fuck something up lol.

 

[DaZeD]

Ok here is the pasted text from Erowid;


"Lung Issues


When smoked, there is the risk of causing discomfort or pain from inhaling the chemical vapor. This could be a result of pH or heat. We have one report, which was also published in the Entheogen Review, of a woman who experienced severe lung pain smoking 5-MeO-DMT. Although risk of this is generally low because the dosage smoked is usually less than 20mg, smokers of 5-MeO-DMT are cautioned to be aware of this issue.

Risks & Cautions

Short term (1-10 minute) non-responsiveness or unconsciousness is frequent with smoked doses over 8-10mg or insufflated doses over 15-20mg. Sitters are extremely important. If 5-MeO-DMT smokers move around during the peak, they can be clumsy, fall, or knock things over and hurt themselves. The peak passes quickly and most users prefer to remain sitting or lying down for the 3-10 minutes of intensity.

Contraindications

5-MeO-DMT and MAOIs :
Although 5-MeO-DMT is present in some plants used in ayahuasca and in some ayahuasca brews, Erowid has received several reports of very troubling physical reactions in people who have ingested 5-MeO-DMT with MAOI harmala-alkaloids. There appears to be the risk of severe hypertensive symptoms, overheating, serotonin syndrome, etc. It is important to note that the profile of these risks are not fully understood, because the long history of use of brews containing some amount the two in combination.

A case of a 17-year-old male was reported to us in December 2002. He ingested an extract of Syrian Rue and then smoked an unknown (but large) dose of powdered, chemical 5-MeO-DMT. He quickly became non-responsive and fell to the ground, began convulsing (myoclonic jerking), and his sitter called an ambulance for help. He was found to have had a pulse of 180, blood pressure 200/125, and temperature 106.0 F. These levels are dangerously high. He was minimally responsive but became wildly agitated upon stimulation (even just speaking to him). He was treated with diazepam and transferred by helicopter to a Boston area hospital. The patient may have suffered lasting damage to his kidneys and rhabdomyolysis.

In December 2004, we received an unconfirmed report of a death related to the ingestion of 200mg of 5-MeO-DMT with some amount of "yage" and are currently looking for corroboration.

We have also received some reports from groups experimenting with making pharmahuasca using 5-MeO-DMT who have said that they had much higher incidence of bad reactions with 5-MeO-DMT than with N,N-DMT. They discontinued using the 5-MeO-DMT."


And the one from Urban 75;


DMT (Businessman's Lunch)

DMT is a very powerful hallucinogen that kicks in very quickly and can produce a very strong trip that usually lasts between 10-30 minutes.

Heart rate and blood pressure increase dramatically and there is a feeling of exhilaration and confusion. Some people are overcome by the strength of the drug, and it is important to feel safe and relaxed in your environment, preferably with a friend to look out for you.

Side effects: Some people have become very scared and paranoid after taking DMT. Its effects can be very disorientating resulting in panic and confusion.

Health risks: If you've high blood pressure or heart problems taking DMT could be risky. Try not to mix it up with drugs like poppers, coke or E as this could send your poor old heart into a frenzy.


But the nafta and the other stuff to extract the DMT out of the plants can't be too good I guess, or is all of that stuff disolved completely?



Hey Psyolopher, why mental health problems?This is the first I hear about that, it's such a short trip that to me it seems impossible to go insane from it, if that is what you mean ofcoarse.

LSD can most likely make you go nuts mostly because it lasts so long, and it can be a serious mindfucker, but DMT has allways been very gentle for me, my thoughts aren't much influenced by it at all, it make's me feel, rahter then think.
I hounestly don't think anyone has ever gone insane from smoking DMT, I think NN-DMT must be the most safe psychedelic in the world.

I dunno about others, but I never had a bad experience with it, it never fucked my mind like acid or shrooms and even cannabis did, it's allways been wonderfull, and allways left me in a blissfull state when the trip is over.

I'm not talking about the 5Meo DMT, I never tried that, and I don't think I ever will, I don't see the point of taking 5 MeO, since most people only complain about the experience, I guess that variant can possibly damage your mental health, but I don't really know much about 5 MeO.

 

[Psyolopher]

Well, i read somewhere that unlucky ones didnt return to our world normally.
This is probarly similar to what we call Acid Casualties, just in the sense of DMT....
But it might ave been bullshit!

I remember, some years ago when i was filling out some forms...about injury and or insanity.
And then this list of drugs came, DMT was one of them lol.

But if you think about it......This drug might have a really strong impact on people.
(paranoia etc...)

I remember LSD giving me a bad trip once, and took time to get out of it atleast.

 

[DaZeD]

Yea, I know what you mean, my last acid trip wasn't actually a bad trip, but the realizations I had, that everything I know is a form of an illusion was really hard to cope with, I'm sure I was on the edge of sanity there, and God, was I happy that I woke up normal the day after, I probably could've stayed in there, cause I really think that I'm not ready for such knowledge, simply because I can't cope with it, I know way to little about what reality really is to come to such dramatic insights, so I got really scared, and I'm happy I made it back normal.

'bout the DMT, I never had any problems with it, it's probably my most favorite psychedelic ever, I just love NN-DMT, it allways took great care of me.

It never makes me think so deep, actually, the way I think is never really altered, it's more an experience, I go through it, like in a dream, acid on the other hand makes me think, and think, and think, and I never want to stop thinking when I trip on acid, sober I could never reach such deep connections, and would never be able to think and realize that much, ever.
But I guess that's what can be so dangerous about it, you think you are finding out the meaning of life, but are you really?Or are you going through some kind of psychosis, you never really know, and I guess that's where the danger for your mental health lies.


Ps, keep going with the music project, your'e doing fine!

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

There are a lot of people who prefer 5-MeO over N,N-DMT.

Well, i read somewhere that unlucky ones didnt return to our world normally.
This is probarly similar to what we call Acid Casualties, just in the sense of DMT....
But it might ave been bullshit!

I think it's bullshit. The effects are usually strong enough to catapult one fully into the transpersonal realms, and keep one there for some time, not distracted by external stimuli and thoughts.

You hardly ever hear about bad trips on DMT, simply because there isn't this attitude of "Dude, let's trip balls and watch a crazy movie". Instead people sit down, turn some suitable music on, dim the lights, and then go for it. If people would prepare for their LSD trips the way most people prepare for their DMT experience, there would be far less "acid casualties".

my last acid trip wasn't actually a bad trip, but the realizations I had, that everything I know is a form of an illusion was really hard to cope with

You were probably not accompanied by an experienced but sober sitter, who could have helped you out there?

 

[Psyolopher]

Thanks alot DaZeD, means alot to me!
(Btw Dazed, u got a pm)
And yeah, good to clear that up then.
Im just wonderin how to get DMT, cuz im to much of a n00b to extract it myself.
And theres really no market for it so....
lol id really like to try though.

But you dont have the sense of being changed?
Mentally? Personality? soul...etc...?
Cuz i feel as if, after alot of tripping my inner side shined stronger....
but the empty space took over, and my inner self seems to be in a empty space now! Hard to explain, but those drugs usually do some change depending upon the experience.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Heres a little thing to think about:

Certain types of painful bee stings only contain serotonin.

 

[Psyolopher]

Heres a little thing to think about:

Certain types of painful bee stings only contain serotonin.

What? I didnt know that!
So Some type of bee stings contain Serotonin?

Are you saying ive used pain to evolve?

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Certain types of painful bee stings only contain serotonin.

Thanks, I learned something new today!

From LSD Research - Serotonin in wasp venom:

5-HT is present in the venom of wasp, scorpion, stinging plants, sea anemone and portugese man-of-war. Poisonous salivary glands of octopus are known to contain large amounts of 5-HT. Table 8 below shows that scorpion and Bufo marinus contain the highest concentration of 5-HT.

Histamine is the other major component in the venom of some wasps. In Table I below, the amount of histamine was quantified relative to the weight in grams (g) of the venom sac. The mean 5-HT concentration in venom was 0.32 mg/g, and the mean histamine concentration was 4.3 mg/g.

Histamine and 5-HT probably contribute to the pain following a wasp sting, since these chemicals cause pain when applied to a blister in human skin.

 

[DaZeD]

You were probably not accompanied by an experienced but sober sitter, who could have helped you out there?[/quote]

I was tripping alone, indeed, but at the final stage of my, uhm "quest for knowledge" I was in my bed, trying to fall asleep, my girlfriend was also there, allready sleeping, and I didn't want to wake her up, well, I woke her up because I couldn't sleep and was moving around all the time, but I didn't talk to her about what was going through my mind at that moment.

But I'm pretty confident that she couldn't do much about it either, cause I was really convinced that I had finally found the ultimate truth, that life is an eternal loop of events, and that our world is an illusion from wich we can never truelly escape, we will allways come back, and we when we do we will not remember that it's an illusion.But after that realisation I panicked, and realized that I could never return to, my previous life again, everything would be pointless, cause it was an illusion afterall...
The morning after I only remembered parts of what I found out.

I must honestly admit that I still believe that everything is an illusion, and that we influence eachother all the time with our thoughts.

The problem is, I can not back that believe up, I started to read the Tibetian Book of the Dead, and I can recognize so many things in that, it's weird, how did they gather such knowledge?

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

But I'm pretty confident that she couldn't do much about it either, cause I was really convinced that I had finally found the ultimate truth,

That's why one should trip in the company of a sober person who has truly realized ultimate truth, during his or her own high-dose trips, or at least some aspects of the truth. It sounds like the stream of thoughts you were having were impressive, but not uplifting, and most likely false. How much acid did you take anyway? One shouldn't expect ultimate truth from recreational dosages.

that life is an eternal loop of events, and that our world is an illusion from wich we can never truelly escape, we will allways come back, and we when we do we will not remember that it's an illusion.

Sounds pretty depressing, much like mayavadi and buddhist philosophy: "The world is an illusion, everything is an illusion..."

No it's NOT!!!

It's a fucking adventure!!!! It's exciting, it's amazing, it's wonderful!!!! One's perception may be colored by illusions, but life itself is not an illusion bro, life can be ecstatic, and will become ecstatic if you embrace it fully.

But after that realisation I panicked, and realized that I could never return to, my previous life again, everything would be pointless, cause it was an illusion afterall...

See, that's why your insight gave you the opposite of what one should expect from a good psychedelic session: motivation!

I must honestly admit that I still believe that everything is an illusion, and that we influence eachother all the time with our thoughts.

If everything is an illusion, thoughts must be illusory too, so how can they influence anything? How can something that does not exist influence something that does not exist? It's bogus philosophy, that's what it is, and I don't care if the Dalai Lama or some ancient buddhas proclaimed it. Whenever you hear a speaker talk at length about this or that being just illusion, leave the room. The only people who can't stop talking about illusion are those who don't understand reality.

The problem is, I can not back that believe up, I started to read the Tibetian Book of the Dead, and I can recognize so many things in that, it's weird, how did they gather such knowledge?

The Tibetan Book of the Dead seems to be a manual for entheogenic initiation, but like other old books it's filled with words and concepts that have become irrelevant.

 

[DaZeD]

Ok, well, I have to say that I was reading a lot of buddhist writings at the time of that trip, so my mind was probably influenced by it, and I can't recall how I got to those thoughts at the time of that trip, but it seemed all so very clear at that time, only the day after it wasn't too clear anymore with illusion I didn't refer to the classic idea of what an illusion is, it was far more complex then that, but it's just impossible to describe it, I even thought that everything that was ever created in this world was just created by my mind, and that I was created by others minds and so on, and ofcoarse I know that life is awesome and an adventure and so on, I know that, but at the time of that trip everything was crystal clear.

I took 2 hoffman blotters that evening, it was also one of the strongest experiences I ever had, I dunno what was wrong with that acid, but at times even with my eyes open I couldn't see nothing else but whirling strings and when I let my eyes rest my sight was sucked into fractalic tunnels, that was amazing, but the endless thinking wasn't amuzing anymore, I felt if my head was boiling inside and steam was going to burst out of my ears at any time, in order to see and recognize the environment I really had to focus damn hard.

I often still have the impression that life is some kind of an illusion, but I'm not that convinced about it anymore then at the moment of that trip, what life truelly is, is a mystery to mankind, no one has the answer to it, no matter how enlightened some might be, it's just theories and nothing more, you can agree or denie those theories, and I know that that trip was just a theory, I'm not deluted or ignorant, but it still was the conclusion of hours of thinking.So there certainly was no lack in motivation, actually I was too motivated, I just couldn't let it rest, I couldn't stop thinking.

But again, these thoughts could be interpreted wrong, but at the time they were very convincing, actually, I just KNEW I hit the spot, see, that's why I think acid can be so dangerous, it's not a good thing to be convinced of a theory, you need to stay sceptic, and under the influence of a high dosage of acid that's pretty hard

 

[restin]

That's why one should trip in the company of a sober person who has truly realized ultimate truth, during his or her own high-dose trips, or at least some aspects of the truth. It sounds like the stream of thoughts you were having were impressive, but not uplifting, and most likely false. How much acid did you take anyway? One shouldn't expect ultimate truth from recreational dosages.

I disagree very strongly, you actually sound quite patronizing here...no offense but claiming that some realizations are wrong is nothing else than claiming that your realizations are true...and you also only acquired them by experience. What does it mean "most likely"? are you calculating with probability?

Another person that influences you during a time where you experience an emotional mind-opening (=a trip) is very dangerous, indeed. And if there is an ultimate truth, everyone needs to experience it for himself...

(that's quite off-topic actually)

 

[Bastiaan]

Sure is.
Suddenly it started becoming a 5-HT concentrations in animal poisions thread (which was interesting but offtopic nonetheless) and now this.
Let's get back on topic.

I've smoked DMT 8 times or so now.
My impressions;
Iit's a mindblowing experience.
I don't think it's for everyone.
Ayahuasca I think IS for everyone, and is a mindblowing experience as well, perhaps even more so.
So if you haven't, perhaps you should try this first.
It'll give you a taste of the feeling of smoked DMT as well, though imo the experiences cannot really be compared.

I have never taken high doses (35mg at most), because I felt that these experiences were enough for me.
It gave me a yourney that I felt I could learn something from.
Seeing creepy bugs and meeting elves and stuff sounds cool and when I hear McKenna talk about it it certainly makes me want to experience it some time and perhaps I will, but that's not something you learn something from unless they enlighten you with some arcane wisdom, and sounds more like the tripping balls seeing stuff etc. the average dude next door would be psyched about to me.
I figured perhaps that would be a little too far, because on these 'medium' doses, you are taken for a ride..
Again, I don't think it's suited for everyone and by that I don't nescesarily mean that somebody would 'not be ready' spiritually or developmentally, but moreso that this is dependant on personality.
You may not enjoy it that much and it may not further you in the path that is unfolding in front of you.

I could be wrong of course, only one way to find out :wink: .

I probably make it sound like it might be dangerous, but my impression is that it's really a harmless substance, at least when taken in 'moderate' doses, that is, to anyone.
Like with a bad trip, you may not like it.

I think there's no more risk to it.
Of course I'm talking about DMT here, smoking residual lye something tells me can't be very healthy.
But well, do you smoke?
Know what I mean.
Anyway, if this concerns you, just recrystallize and/or wash (with acetone? ammonia? what was it?) the stuff.
You can easily clean it up yourself to make sure.
The information on doing this is widespread, you can google it!

 

[Brugmansia]

You'll have to make sure you have a healthy heart when doing full blown psychedelic experiences, because the heart pulse may possibly play a role in your sense of comfort in the long-term. The hypothalamus can have influence on heart papilations and can also alter the rhythm, it may be not harmful, but there is noticeable an affection in how you experience the beats.

Just limit satured fats, don't smoke tobacco, exercise at least three times a week, know your sensivity to cafeine etc. It are those things which prevent the perhaps very minor health issues related to tripping, which I belief can occur if someone has a poor condition and unhealthy lifestyle habits.

 

[Psyolopher]

You'll have to make sure you have a healthy heart when doing full blown psychedelic experiences, because the heart pulse may possibly play a role in your sense of comfort in the long-term. The hypothalamus can have influence on heart papilations and can also alter the rhythm, it may be not harmful, but there is noticeable an affection in how you experience the beats.

Just limit satured fats, don't smoke tobacco, exercise at least three times a week, know your sensivity to cafeine etc. It are those things which prevent the perhaps very minor health issues related to tripping, which I belief can occur if someone has a poor condition and unhealthy lifestyle habits.

Thats a damn good point! +1