Defend Nuclear power now, you naysayers

[spice]

I spoke about the pitfalls of nuclear energy recently on this board, and every single person defended it to some degree, leap out there now, since mother earth hath cooperatively provided me with a running documentary (called Japan) ON WHY ITS SUCH A BAD FUCKING IDEA.

Anyone want to be a proponent of atomic energy at this point? step forth ye

 

[Crimzen]

dude
thousands of people have died either way
unless theres more news since yesterday it seems like the problems regarding the plants are being handled fairly well?
of course though that could be bullshit

I think nuclear power is a better alternative to fossil fuel, which isnt to say i like nuclear power in general
i also think japan is one of the worst places on earth to put nuclear power plants...it being the conversion point of 3 tectonic plates and is subject to constant seismic activity

Nuclear power isnt the problem here, a massive natural disaster (which caused far more destruction than the power plants will) of a magnitude which is almost unheard of damaged the plants, which were in and of themselves working fine
Im about 80% sure there are precautions which can be put in place to stop this happening again

 

[IJesusChrist]

I'm still for it.

Of course its not as great as solar, wind, or wave...

If you put a nuke plant on a fault you're fucking stupid.

 

[itsscience]

If you put a nuke plant on a fault you're fucking stupid.

Agree entirely.

And then of course there's fault lines and there's FAULT lines. The Ring of Fire, on which Japan sits, is the DADDY OF ALL FAULT LINES - you would be hard pressed to find a worse place to put a reactor.

Japan's problem is it's size (small land mass) and it's population (pretty fucking big). A lot of energy is required to fuel a population of that size and it doesn't have the space to build green plants that usually take up a lot of space (wind generators need heaps of room as do big solar arrays) nor does it have a lot of fossil fuels (coal, gas etc) to fuel other types of power plants. The country is in a classic catch 22 in terms of power generation - worst possible place to build nuclear but no other truly viable options.

Interesting to note that scientists studying the effects of radiation on voles (small mouselike creatures) living around Chernobyl have found that while they exhibit high levels of radiation (when scanned by a geiger counter) they are showing no increased rate of birth defects nor any shortening of their life expectancy. Same too of the larger animals such as wolves and deer (although they don't exhibit as high a degree of radiation as the voles).

*Sorry I can't give you a source of the scientific study, I heard the lead scientist talking about it in an interview on a local radio station.

**here's a link to a blog about the study and if you scroll down you'll find a letter written by Robert Baker, a biologist at Texas Tech who co-directs the Chernobyl Project.

 

[ophiuchus]

haha i knew this thread was coming. we are really lucky that is wasn't more severe. any worse of a meltdown and the entire american westcoast would have cancer and eight eyed babies.

electricity is overrated.

 

[IJesusChrist]

As you post on the internet

 

[ophiuchus]

gotta stay on par at least, we'd all manage (to be more social) just fine without it. and maybe have more vitamin d. and better eyesight. as i look outside i see a beautiful sunshine. good bye

 

[IJesusChrist]

lucky you... I see a sunset and icey roads... can't wait for t-shirt weather.

 

[itsscience]

electricity is overrated

LMAO

 

[Sprax]

All right, I'll bite.

1. How many people die from smoking, traffic accidents, general accidents etc every year? Many.

2. How many people did the earth quake and tsunami kill? Many.

3. How many people have died as a result of radiation? Afaik none so far. Some can be expected to, but relative few as compared to the quake and following tsunami. Radiation is scary but its dangers are exaggerated. Add to this that the reactor was an ancient design and better alternatives exist.

Edit: comparison to Chernobyl:

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#Assessing_the_disaster.27s_effects_on_human_health

Apart from the 57 direct deaths in the accident itself, UNSCEAR originally predicted up to 4,000 additional cancer cases due to the accident.[85] Sceptics claimed that such an increase may be attributed to increased screening for cancer after the disaster.

Compare this to the millions who get cancer from smoking. 4000 people in Russia compared to the 5 or so million globally per year who get cancer from smoking? I'm comparing globally because I can't be bothered to look up figures from Russia. The numbers are still significant. If Chernobyl was tragic, smoking is a holocaust. My point? Nuclear energy is dangerous, but not as dangerous as we sometimes think. Comparing it to other dangers puts it in perspective.

 

[IJesusChrist]

how bout the car, better yet - the freeway - what a shitty idea, huh spice?

who knows how many deaths a year:

Oh

Car Crash Stats: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes.

 

[ophiuchus]

you can't compare natural phenomenon with man made problems, there'd be no point...

also, im pretty sure that radiation has killed PLENTY of people. hiroshima. cancer. chemo kills more people than it saves...

also, if you'd wish to use your quote for your argument, you should first consider the self evident fact presented, that, if simply screening for cancer, a really relatively low amount of radiation, can give you cancer, then...?

not arguing, just saying.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Confused what you're trying to say.

Firstly, a nuclear power plant is man made. There is no source of radiation on planet earth that would be substantial enough to kill you - except if you count UV rays from the sun. But that would literally take a few days of you sitting in the sun with no clothes and your skin peeling off.

The point however, is the use of nuclear power to generate electricity is a man made idea, just as the car for transportation. And my previous point is that nuclear power plants for electricity are nothing in comparison to other inventions - there is a greater fear of radiation because you cannot see it, feel it, or sense it. It slowly takes your life away (unless it's an A-bomb - which will basically vaporize you).

I don't know where you are going with the cancer screening. I was only defending nuclear power for electrical generation, not the use of radiation with cancer.

Chemo-therapy is what kills you, not cancer. Cancer is a slow death, but by no means as horrific as chemo therapy.

 

[ophiuchus]

i wasn't picking a side, my post was directed to sprax and the quote/stance that he chose. just some food for thought is all

 

[Crimzen]

i think sprax meant how many people have died of radiation from the recent events in japan
in general of course people will have died from radiation otherwise it wouldnt even be an issue

 

[IJesusChrist]

Ok, well in the end I was just pointing out that radiation is only scary if you concentrate on it. Freeways scare the shit out of me...

 

[ophiuchus]

driving on any road can be scary to me if i really begin to digest what it is that is going on... flying past another driver matching my speed creating a doubled potential impact force. hitting shit at 25 mph is intense! ... idk, i just dont think that something that has the potential to make entire regions uninhabitable should be spoken of so lightly. beyond that, i choose not to speculate.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I was once in a car with a driver who insisted we should max out the speed on her car. We reached around 120 in a dodge neon on a free way. I realized at that point how feeble a seat-belt is, and how I would probably rather die without it on.

From that point on it really hit me how fast even 55 miles per hour is.

 

[ophiuchus]

yeah . funny how when things become habit, it becomes so easy to lose perspective of just how far into things we've gotten, technologically speaking

 

[IJesusChrist]

Yesir - it all is very overwhelming when you realize what you're doing. The brain is so fucking good at "normalizing" things though...