Current Acidhead, taking alot frequently, have some q's

[trick]

i aggree about the LSD i learned verry qickly that if i want to get all i can out of it, the longer i wait the better.

idk exactly HOW long its been, but i want to say 2years?
my next trip should be quite benifical.

i feel im finally at the point in my life where ... well you get it.

 

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I agree addiction is an inappropriate term. There is however, as with all spiritual pursuits, a danger of escapism. One generally doesn't wish to escape from "the truth" (about the war on drugs, the banking system, environmental pollution and so on) but there may be a tendency to neglect practical matters, educational pursuits and personal relationships.

I mean, if you're going to trip twice a week, will you still have enough time to keep your house tidy, pay your bills, work out, cook yourself a decent meal and do your laundry, dishes, groceries and repairs? You may if you're unemployed, don't have family members and don't go to school or university. But as soon as you take on some basic responsibilities, time for serious tripping is naturally going to be limited to a couple of times a month, if you're lucky.

So whenever someone says they're tripping several times a week, it simply means they either have the good fortune of not having too many responsibilities yet (like we all did when we were younger, or later in life when for some legitimate reason we end up living on welfare or decide to renounce everything and go live in a forest) or that they are purposefully skirting such responsibilities, which would make their use of psychedelics a symptom of escapism, dysfunctional behavior and possibly immoral sources of income.

 

[Jeniger]

It all depends how u look at it, creating your own reality can be seen as escapism, shamanism/sadhu's can be seen as escapsim. Everything in life,food, work,the whole industry/economy is in that sense based on escapism, even taking responsability whatever that may mean for someone, can be a form of escapism. One should just follow their heart..

I rather see someone escaping in a spiritual persuit beside from the major religions, than any other of the thousand forms of escapism.

 

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I agree there are numerous ways to be an escapist. I'm just saying that the danger of doing psychedelics too often is that one may neglect practical concerns. The negative consequences for that person might not be immediately apparent, but will manifest as they get older.

Had Albert Hofmann been tripping 3 times a week in his youth, he wouldn't have become the chemist that did so much for the world. Stan Grof wouldn't have become the "godfather of LSD" and no one would know about Tim Leary, Ralph Metzner and so on. These people all worked towards a position in the world before they transcended it.

Regarding sadhus, according to the Indian ashram system a human life consists of four phases. The first is student life (brahmacarya), roughly up to the age of 25. Student life consists of learning practical skills and basic spiritual philosophy. The second stage however is householder life (grihastha), which consists of taking financial and emotional responsibility for a family. Only after 25 years (or more) of that does a person renounce practical responsibilities to become a pilgrim and forest dweller (vanaprastha), with the final 25 years dedicated to full time spiritual life as a "world renouncer" (sannyasi). The sadhus you see in India all had jobs prior to their life as a mendicant.

I rather see someone escaping in a spiritual persuit beside from the major religions, than any other of the thousand forms of escapism.

You missed the point I was trying to make. Escapism by definition leads to undesirable consequences and that is why any form of escapism must be discouraged. If one is in the fortunate position of tripping several times a week while still having enough time to read, study and take care of personal hygiene, then that is not escapism. If however that person becomes so attached to this lifestyle that he starts to neglect practical concerns, he will eventually run into serious trouble.

 

[Jeniger]

I certainly dont miss your point, i simply don't agree with your life standards that are nesscescary to develop a healthy and happy satisfied life.

One does not have to read, study, and what is hygiene is very subjective. I know people who don't trip anymore yet they don't care about the practical concerns you wrote. It all depends on what u want to achieve in life and what makes u happy.
For some people this western conditioned mindset works for others it doesn't, that's all i am thinking... there should be space for both the mindsets.

If however that person becomes so attached to this lifestyle that he starts to neglect practical concerns, he will eventually run into serious trouble.

Same can be said about all the people who are attached to the modern western lifestyle who most of the time neglect practical spiritual concerns

As far as i know, sadhus reject their family and friends, regardless the age.

Something that is mere "daydreaming" or "escapism" from the viewpoint of a technological-rational society might be a seed for a new and more humane social order, it can be seen as an "immature, but honest substitute for revolution".

 

[Brugmansia]

The point actually is, how to digest being the genuine witness of all those innumerable witches on the run trying to chase a skeleton? :mrgreen:

I have become more distant from my family, though not less caring. But in some way I think you should be in able to live with much less external social stimuli if you want to push it to the limit. Simply because one will break many connections with the world and its people since it's very unlikely the mass will go here where we are.

 

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True, it becomes hard to relate to parents and siblings if they're not interested in mind-expansion or spiritual development. But when I was talking about family I was particularly talking about the family we create ourselves when we become involved in a relationship and decide to have children.

I also think it's good to reduce external social stimuli, and that it is in a sense unavoidable if you wish to traverse this path. Living a somewhat secluded life, without being an outright recluse, seems to be most conducive to inner growth. I mean, if you become so socially involved that you're expected to attend someone's birthday party every weekend, when will you have time for your sacred rituals?

 

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i simply don't agree with your life standards that are nesscescary to develop a healthy and happy satisfied life.

Not just to develop, but especially to maintain. Generally your future will be brighter when you develop skills, study, read and live a productive life. I'm not suggesting a completely materialistic Western lifestyle. If anything, I'm in favor of the Vedic model we discussed earlier. Both the brahmacarya and grihastha engage in study and practical services for society. Only the retired sannyasis depend on alms.

Yes, the word sadhu is not related to age. Sadhu simply means holy man. But no, a sadhu does not by definition reject his family and friends, especially if these family members are of the same faith as he is. They will reduce social interaction, but not really reject them. Only the sannyasi rejects everything and becomes "dead to society". According to traditional etiquette a sannyasi may not even see his own mother anymore.

I know people who don't trip anymore yet they don't care about the practical concerns you wrote.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Why would not tripping anymore make them care about practical concerns? About tripping and practical concerns I was saying something completely different, namely that tripping several times a week (the subject matter of this topic) might get in the way of keeping your life organized.

 

[st.bot.32]

The negative consequences for that person might not be immediately apparent, but will manifest as they get older.

there's more truth to that than you know.. for example, long-term periods of being high while deprived of sleep WILL catch up with you, it's just a matter of when. but i'm talking about people who use psychedelics frequently, over lengthy periods, not occasional binges

You missed the point I was trying to make. Escapism by definition leads to undesirable consequences and that is why any form of escapism must be discouraged.

I would substitute escapism with 'getting one's head stuck up one's own ass so far one never manages to pull it out'. Misuse seems to go hand in hand with the incredibly myopic. And I'm not really blaming the drugs here. Some people are able to hold multiple models for dealing with reality and never get totally lost in the chapel. Some people WANT to be lost.

Generally your future will be brighter when you develop skills, study, read and live a productive life. I'm not suggesting a completely materialistic Western lifestyle

I agree. There's nothing materialistic or even inherently western about training your mind and developing rational thinking processes. Learning requires effort and suspension of the ego and challenging one's own cognitive biases.. and constant self-analysis and critical thinking. There's nothing more boring than people who only feed their minds with more of themselves..

I might sound negative but I'm not.. I'm totally into periods of intensive psychonauting with psychedelics. Actually probably almost everyone who gets into psychedelics and find them useful goes through an open-eyed gaga period with them for a while.. I probably will again at some point! Understanding the consequences of one's actions on the self in the now and in the future, that's something that comes with time

 

[Jeniger]

Not just to develop, but especially to maintain. Generally your future will be brighter when you develop skills, study, read and live a productive life.

I believe we already have all the knowledge inside of us and everyone has his own speciality.I think that if a person is in contact with his true innerselve, skills will automaticly appear, u can not learn everything from studying or reading. I am curious to your definition of productive.

sadhus are as diverse as peoples taste in music, i dont think they can be generalised.

You missed the point I was trying to make. Escapism by definition leads to undesirable consequences and that is why any form of escapism must be discouraged. If one is in the fortunate position of tripping several times a week while still having enough time to read, study and take care of personal hygiene, then that is not escapism. If however that person becomes so attached to this lifestyle that he starts to neglect practical concerns, he will eventually run into serious trouble.

I know people who don't trip anymore yet they don't care about the practical concerns you wrote. It all depends on what u want to achieve in life and what makes u happy.
For some people this western conditioned mindset works for others it doesn't, that's all i am thinking... there should be space for both the mindsets.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Why would not tripping anymore make them care about practical concerns?

What i was trying to say is that tripping often without studying or reading is not by definition leading to undesirable consequences, it can be conscious way of rejecting certain values and creating your own reality wich at the long term makes u happy, as long as u follow and explore your true selve.

The most important aspect for me in life is to make music, but i can not imagine me saying everyone should make music otherwise they would not live healthy productive lives. Everyone should be able to explore themselves what makes them satisfied or productive, education can be a way of help but its not a nessecity .

And offcourse there are people who don't trip with their hearts and just want to get fucked up on drugs..... i will not justify that...psychedelics will amplify the escapism they already had in the first place

 

[trick]

not to try to throw off your conversation, but everytime i look at this thread, the term 'acidhead' bothers me. that term shouldnt exsist.. :x