can psychedelics help us see through propaganda?

[zezt]

Ironicly enough I didnt even notice. I had to look at what you typed to see what you meant. Might be from the fact that I taught myself to speed read at a very young age and speed reading is all about using general graphical cues as opposed to individual letters. So the difference of an i or I at the begninig of sentance doesnt matter cuz the ". " (dot space) stands out more.

I feel like bumping this up again because I have found myself coming back to this subject. OK---Galileo had the tele-scope. This was an instrument that allows the human nervous system to looking much further out into outer-space. The Church and State at that time did not like this and the pope refused to look through the telescope and Galileo was locked up.

Later we get the micro-scope which allows us to look deeper into material reality, and also comes instruments which allow us to 'look' into sub-atomic reality.

Now, what kinds of instruments are the psychedelics? What do these do?

 

[zezt]

I think this thread is in wrong section. Can modertor move it to 'gereal psychonauts' section (ooops have I rememberd it right?)

 

[ararat]

I'd move the topic, but I'm not a mod anymore, even though my rank says I am. whatever.



since you surf reality sandwich too there is a good chance you already saw the video, but in case you haven't, check it out (and everybody else of course )

I like that guy. he seems very impartial, realistic, in an honest way.



I'm very happy that meditation is very, very hard to make illegal.
the mayans apparently didn't have telescopes to map out the sky but still did so in an astonishing manner. I think a similar thing is possible with the psyche. given enough wielding of the mental faculties you can see into the depths of your own reality. the only thing one needs is willingness and earnestness.
many psychonauts (most famously McKenna) don't seem to think highly of meditation since it allegedly doesn't provide the same intensity or insight, but after my last 10-day meditation retreat I am convinced that you can get equally viable insights into nature as with psychedelics. the last retreat was even more intense than my last lsd trip - I've never had ayahuasca, but at some point the meditation was so intense and downright humbling that it made me think that this is what aya must be like.
the only thing that kind of irks me about the retreats is that they come with the theories of the buddhist reality tunnel. - but that is a different topic I am thinking of addressing in the near future..

I am not denigrating psychedelics here - hell no they are wonderful tools in their own right, like telescopes and microscopes.

 

[zezt]

Hmmm I watched Graham Hancok's Ted talk, and only recently I have quoted him--where he talks about how if we do not have freedom of our own consciousness then we are truly fucked. I also like how he questions the mental illness myth, and how he speaks out against the insane ecocide. However, I did not gell with his implication that if you are 'bad' you go to hell after death. That to me is too reminiscent of Christianity, and that toxic myth has caused SO much destruction with its fear of hell trip. Now, understand that I am not questioning his experience of 'hell' or his hellish experience, or more modernly, bummer. I also have had fair share of that on trips, and also in dreams. But to go from there to contribute to the afterlife hell motif is not fruitful in my opinion.
I am more attracted to Goddess mythology, and I think it is very important to at least understand this mythos because doing so you find just how the patriarchy in is many guises has tried to suppress it----This suppression exposes a deep fear of Goddess mythology!

In the Goddess mythos then there is no punishing hell, and it is more a regenerative Womb. So the theme is that we all of us are born into this world of nature via mum's womb, and when we die we die into her womb from which we regenerate as new awarenesses. And THIS cycle is sacred, THIS is eternal, not some 'immortality' promised both by patriarchal religious beliefs and also secular belief eg 'transhumanism'. So what the patriarchal belief systems do is de-grade nature and our bodies and natures. The religious traditions claim nature is fallen, or illusion, and we are full of sin, and suffering karma etc, and they all place the 'sacred' in the future IF you do what they say and con-form. So I distrust all of that.

I think we should always be asking questions. For example Hancock may seem this well-learned guy etc etc, but if you dont feel right about his explanation--it dont fit right with you--then ask questions, and it is questioning which is the living flowing process--get me?

You talk about 'meditation' and this may be good for you. I dont personally like just sitting eyes closed and 'going inward'. I am an eyesopen kinda dude lol.

My idea of meditation is being aware of your questioning as you explore life. Being aware of how you feel about things. I am distrustful of the Eastern concept of 'going beyond thought'. I see that as cutting off a valuable part of our natural questioning ability.

it is interesting you reminding me how the Mayans didn't have telescopes! Just remind me though --they didn't on-up Galileo though about Earth moving round sun...?

Today I was wondering what it would be like to take psychedelics and look through a telescope and/or microscope. How do you think you would feel?

The latter experiment COULD seriously freak you out LOL

 

[ararat]

you bring up some good points. of course I'm not fully endorsing what graham talks about, but I do think it is an inspiring talk he is giving.

on the question of afterlife and hell, I cannot talk about it with any authority, and neither can anybody else, I suppose. personally I'm faring well with the idea of being "promoted" after death. death is an orgasmic portal going - where? dunno. I'd like to imagine that death brings us back to where we came from - being awareness bliss. but right now, I feel, it seems more fruitful for me to accept the fact that I don't knowat all what all this is.


I don't think that going beyond thought is necessarily bad - it doesn't mean to relinquish thought, just to go beyond it. there IS a field beyond right and wrong, and what a beautiful place it is! "there is nothing either good or bad but the mind makes it so" (shakespeare). as I see it we are caught in the habit of our minds to label things and to live on the map we created (or that someone else created - which fits the topic quite well now) instead of the territory, which is ineffable. it was amazing to see how colorful and alive everything becomes once I stopped labeling things all the time. which is not to say that questioning is a no-no

to me, meditation isn't so much about "going inward" (I never really got that idea), but rather going toward what IS. to actually feel the body, how it glows and aches. I had the idea of reuniting myself with nature, and I was very much astounded when I understood that the energy that is constantly flowing through my body is the same energy that animates the trees and birds.


I am yet to look through a microscope while tripping, but considering how awesome it was just to look at the clouds and waves it is probably quite mindblowing

 

[BrainEater]

well maybe consider the idea of pills... propaganda pills and anti-propaganda pills... the pills can be simple ideas or actual substances or maybe both?? think of LSD, mushroom, cannabis, etc etc "cultures". actually also words are or can be like pills for consciousness / consciousness pills.. i think this means that culture is also about storytelling... of course this can be good and/or bad and that's why we should watch or/and observe ourselves what stories we believe or maybe even tell ourselves and why we believe them at all, continuously or once in a while or so. i would say the feeling is what defines the quality of a pill. so people have to know what they are feeling and be able to understand their feelings. maybe exactly like or maybe not exactly like dreaming and then knowing that your dreaming.
propaganda is probably often influenced by peoples' humanity trips. what they think what is humane and what humane should be. also it's interesting to note that in times of war there is often times of propaganda war involved, because the war people need others to think along the same lines or so...
so maybe with psychedelics it's about the base personalities of persons. one common argument says that psychedelic drugs simply activate and/or intensify what's already in a person. the potential to experience so to say.
so in this sense i guess it's logical to see psychedelic drugs as tools, when our brain has been caused to disfunction by the ideas of some people. sometimes it seems we can liberate our minds and bodies from mental limitations by ourselves, but at other times it can be easier and more conveniant or so with tools.


i would say it depends on the severity and on your individual consciousness.
at first there is the idea how we think we are individuals and then there is the idea how we really are individuals. i think it's about being yourself without being afraid and without fooling yourself also. maybe a bit like mind or brain filters and conditionings...
if people can be truly honest and compassionate in a natural way towards themselves and others but most importantly towards themselves then psychedelic drugs can be great tools, but even without substances as tools such people have great potential for transformation.
of course also music can help to free your minds and souls, but yeah music is often also drug influenced.
i think a lot of people who take drugs are afraid in some sense, but also people who don't take drugs.
it's difficult to explain. i think ararat pointed towards it a little bit... the basic joy of simple being.
i would certainly wish all good people to find it in themselves or reattain it if they thought they had lost it. i think zezt also mentioned some important ideas... that our culture is to a relatively big extent quite unhealthy etc etc... :?


to connect the ideas of music and propaganda i sometimes think possibly can be a bit edgy, but in some cases it can be necessary. i mean that in the way that when will humanity people globally be able to see each other as brothers and sisters eventually and at one with nature?
it's time for the real psychedelic revolution now!!! it's really time!!! it has approached over the century... maybe what happened in germany with hitler is also a sign... he recognized that people can be like animals... but he was insane and hasn't used it right... and then the 60s and 70s... it all shows simply how it's much better together than against each other... down with the war idiots and all the other idiots!!!
we want peace and freedom for everyone... people that want to make real war should mostly be put in prison!!!
there has been so much meaningless destruction.... we could be much more advanced... real science should be possible without war... :x
we are light beings, not ego machines!!
what about the idea of ants? are we just ants? insect colonies?? if yes then why haven't we recognized the incredible possibilities of for example the hemp plant? etc etc ...
according to terrence mc kenna, what we need as a civilisation culture or so, is an awakening. :-o
in conclusion i do think that people with psychedelic influence or so are often more likely to be able to see through toxic myths and schemes or simply states of minds. because the ability of seeing or observing has not only got to do with the eyes but also with the mind or the psyche.




peace

 

[XuXa]

you dont even need psychadelics, just some clean weed strips the bullshit away, psychadellics on top of that just give a bonus