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Ariocarpus

Hamsadana

Elfe Mécanique
Inscrit
22 Mai 2012
Messages
302
Domanda per esperti cactofili: il cactus in oggetto secondo voi si puó assumere? Su internet molte guide dicono che è un cactus psicoattivo molto potente. È chiamato anche living stone, cresce immezzo alle rocce e si confonde con esse.

È comunque una pianta che é consentito avere per legge, ma presumo sia illegale l'estrazione della sostanza psicoattiva che contiene.

È bellissimo ma non posso uppare foto perchè sto scrivendo dal cellulare. Se riuscite mettetela voi.

ariocarpus-fissuratus.jpg
 

Sball0n

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
19 Juil 2012
Messages
1 698
ma è uno di quei cactus che prima di poterlo prendere devi aspettare 10 anni? XD
 

Sball0n

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
19 Juil 2012
Messages
1 698
informandomi ho letto che in molti cactus del genere ariocarpus sono ricchi di alcaloidi nelle radici, non so se ciò vale anche su questo/a "fissuratus" però potrebbe essere.. ti linko questo sito che ho appena letto http://www.webalice.it/mauro.zuntini/ariocarpus.html dove ti parla un pò della storia della coltivazione e altre cose :D
 

scaltro

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
17 Avr 2010
Messages
1 228
se hai abbastanza ariocarpus da poterne sacrificare qualcuno prova pure, però considera che le dosi sono quasi sconosciute così come gli alcaloidi contenuto in esso, stai sempre attento a quello che mangi ;)
 

Tuzzy

Matrice périnatale
Inscrit
7 Sept 2012
Messages
4
OCCHIO AGLI ARIOCARPUS!!!
tutte le speci sono in tabella CITES e sono protetti a livello mondiale. ne è vietata la raccolta e la propagazione dovrebbe essere accompagnata da certificato di chi cede piante o semi. si rischia denuncia penale, per quanto assurdo è come avere un gattopardo o una lince in casa!
inoltre sono mmmooooooltoooo lenti a crescere e cosa strana fioriscono in autunno o inverno in piena stagione secca.

retusus e fissuratus sembrano essere i più potenti e non hanno buona fama presso i popoli che li usano, lo chiamano anche "il peyote dei ladri". effetti potenti e spiacevoli, non da viaggio ludico. le credenze popolari lo accusano di provocare pazzia e cecità.


Ariocarpus Retusus
ariocarpus-retusus-plant.jpg
 

Nur*

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
3 Août 2012
Messages
82
Ciao
presso gli Huichol (un'etnia messicana) è chiamato Tsuwiri o "falso peyote";questa gente
compie lunghe peregrinazioni in cerca del peyote vero e proprio e crede che durante queste "scampagnate",
se una persona non è stata correttamente purificata, lo spirito la condurrà al falso peyote che, se assunto,
le donerà un bel bad trip o addirittura la porterà alla pazzia...a parte le credenze mistiche, contiene alcaloidi vari tra i quali anche fenetilamina
e la loro concentrazione varia a seconda delle stagioni e delle fasi di crescita.
( fonte : Peyote and other psychoactive cacti)
Bella tutta in fiore!
 

nepenthes

Elfe Mécanique
Inscrit
21 Oct 2012
Messages
448
Eccolo svasato....vedete come purtroppo il fittone si sia "schiacciato" contro il fondo del vaso.....dovrò riuscire in qualche modo a districarlo, forse userò dell'acqua, ma non prima di marzo-aprile...Probabilmente la pianta resterà in apparente stasi vegatativa post-travaso per un paio d'anni....
 

Monad

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
15 Sept 2012
Messages
6 220
Il genere Ariocarpus Scheidweiler | Psychotropicon - La rivista online per Psychonauts | piante, funghi e sostanze


According to the classification by Anderson (1964) the genus Ariocarpus contains six species in two subgenera. All of them occur primarily in the Chihuahuan Desert from the Rio Grande to the Mexican Plateau (Benson 1982). This group’s uses are actually very interestingly related to the uses of Peyote (Lophophora williamsii). By far the most famous of these species is Ariocarpus fissuratus, which is often called sunami or peyote cimarron (Schultes, 1970). In regards to the uses of this plant, there seems to be some confusion in not only the Indians but in the recorders. This so called confusion is based on a few findings.
The first reports were from Lumholtz (1902), the Norwegian ethnographer who traveled to this region early in the century. His informers in the Tarahumara Indians told him that A. fissuratus was used in a similar way as peyote and is considered to be more powerful. Schultes (1970) likewise found that A. fissuratus is a common narcotic and asserted that it is stronger than true peyote. These stories, however, conflict with Gennet and Zingg (1935) who stated that this species was considered ineffective by the Tarahumara. Although, they noted that the Indians still hold it sacred, for it was communicated to them that those who abuse it will die.

The confusion that arose in regards to the actual effect and usage of these species of Ariocarpus maybe confounded by their similarity to each other. For instance, Furst (1971) in a study on the Huichol Indians, reported that they know of a related species, Ariocarpus retusus. According to the account A. retusus is known as tsuwiri, or the ‘false peyote’. Tsuwiri reportedly causes undesirable psychological effects, ‘because it is capable of sorcery and deception.’ Whether or not the psychological effect truly is bad or not is unclear, because later is states that true Huichols do not eat this plant. Only the deceived and evil Huichols will consume the plant. Thus, it implies that those that eat the plant are already to some degree psychologically “impure.” In any case, the chemistry of the plant can be analyzed to determine the active ingredients. It contains hordenine, N-methyltryamine in fairly small amounts (about 0.02 percent) and traces of N-methyl-3,4-dimethoxy-B-phenethylamine, and N-methyl-4-B- phenethylamine. Aside from these alkaloids, it also contains a flavone called retusin (3,3',4',7-tetramethoxy-5-hydroxyflavone). However, some have claimed that these constituents seem in too small of doses to ever cause a psychological effect (Gottlieb 1997). Some controlled scientific studies are clearly needed to unravel this mystery.


In addition to A. retusus and A. fissuratus there are 3 others reportedly used: these include A. kotschoubeyanus and A. trigonus, both which contain the same alkaloids as A. fissuratus (mostly hordenine, less N-methyl- tyramine and some N-methyl-3,4-dimethoxy-B-phenethylamine), and A. agavoides which must have a very minute amount of psychoactive alkaloids, for it is consumed as a sweet by locals in some areas of Mexico such as Magueyitio (Gotlieb 1997).
da Hallucinogenic Cacti : A survey of Hallucinogenic Cacti of the World


Ariocarpus agavoides

A. agavoides' first mention in the context of peyote appears to be in a 1979 Economic Botany article by Bruhn & Bruhn where its chemical study is undertaken due to its relationship to established Ariocarpus species known as peyote, and also for its possible chemical similarities to them. Edward F. Anderson, in his Peyote: The Divine Cactus, mentions A. agavoides "at one time or another (having) been called peyote," but fails to give supporting information of its use other than as a food item. It is a questionable peyote species and does not appear to have ethnobotanical use beyond as a food item and glue due to its internal mucilage.
A. agavoides is known to local inhabitants of Tula, Tamaulipas, Mexico, as "magueyitos" (little agaves) and are collected and eaten for their sweet tasting flesh. I have even heard that a goat herder from the same area eats the plants because, in translation, "they make your head feel good." Their overindulgence is also believed to cause dizziness. The tubercles have even been added to salads at the Top of the Cove restaurant in La Jolla, California, due to their being sweet and bitter at the same time.
This species, along with others in the taxon, are becoming endangered in nature due to the encroachments of man and over collecting. Ariocarpus species were once known as Roseocactus and have been a favorite for hybridization.

N-Methyl-3,4-dimethoxyphenethylamine
N,N-Dimethyl-3-methoxytyramine
Hordenine


Ariocarpus fissuratus

A. fissuratus
is considered one of the most important híkuri of the Tarahumara, being known as "híkuri sunami," a term signifying its ability to "enchain." It is also known as "peyote cimarrón" (wild peyote), a term indicating its unruly nature. This latter designation may be inaccurate as Bennett & Zingg regard peyote cimarrón as being "small, red, and ineffective" and "not used or even touched, since the abuser may die." Carl Lumholtz, in his classic text on the Tarahumara, Unknown Mexico, doesn't even make mention of such a plant as peyote cimarrón, though he does address híkuri sunami. Ivar Thord-Gray, in his Tarahumara dictionary, makes a clear difference between híkuri cimarrón and híkuri sunami, believing the former is "considered the most dangerous peyote, in fact deadly even to the touch, and is therefore never used," while he regards the latter as being "at least as powerful as híkuri wanamé" (L. williamsii). Híkuri cimarrón has been applied toward only one other Cactaceae, Astrophytum myriostigma, while it has been applied to one species of Compositae (Asteraceae) and two species of Orchidaceae.

Though containing no mescaline, A. fissuratus, as híkuri sunami, is, according to Lumholtz, believed by the Tarahumara to be more powerful than híkuri wanamé and be used in the same manner. That this híkuri is considered at least as, or more powerful than, L. williamsii is rather impressive considering the minimal presence of alkaloids, but such a term as "power" should not immediately be assumed to denote that it is more hallucinogenic than L. williamsii. A. fissuratus, like L. williamsii, is highly valued, both medicinally and ceremonially, and its power could lie far from its ability to alter consciousness. One must also consider the possibility that "power" is simply an abridged translation, by a Victorian era westerner, of a report provided by an aboriginal; a report that likely would have been more thorough in its description were it accurately transcribed.

A. fissuratus is frequently used as a medicinal and pain-killing plant, being placed upon wounds, snakebites, and bruises. It is also known to remedy fevers and ease rheumatic pains. Like L. williamsii, it is a medicinal panacea that is used for all orders of disease. Often A. fissuratus is mixed with water and boiled for a few minutes to be made into a strongly intoxicating drink. It is also chewed or drunk as a stimulant for traditional Tarahumara foot-runners, while others will often carry pieces of this híkuri in their belts for good luck. Again, like in prior reference to "power," the term "stimulant" must be considered from the same perspective; that it is not a central nervous stimulant as understood by western culture. It is much more likely that the value of some híkuri as stimulants in running contests is for their ability to focus the mind on the sacred task at hand by dulling pain and suppressing thirst and appetite. Its use in festivals extended past the mid-20th century and is likely used in some form to this day.

The most mythical aspect reported about A. fissuratus is the belief that it has the ability to cause robbers to be "powerless to steal anything where sunami calls soldiers to its aid." Just how it is used to protect ones property had failed to be recorded, but quite possibly it could have been an idol placed in or around the camp or home, or else may have been prayed to for such purpose. Like other important híkuri, A. fissuratus would likely have been venerated as a god with the power of intercession in human affairs.

I am aware of one modern account of the ingestion of A. fissuratus tea. The report indicates non-hallucinogenic effects with strong narcotic pain killing qualities. More complete chemical studies of this genus may prove productive.

A. fissuratus includes a large number of morphological variations. Which of these may be used among the Tarahumara is apparently unknown. A. bravoanus subspecies hintonii (=A. fissuratus variation hintonii) is reported to be used as an exterior salve for general pains and rheumatism after being soaked in alcohol.

A. fissuratus has been successfully crossed with L. williamsii, creating L. williamsii x A. fissuratus hybrids.

A. fissuratus has been called "chaute" or "chautle," terms that are a corruption of "challote," which itself is a Spanish corruption of "peyote."
Hordenine
N-Methyltyramine
N-Methyl-3,4-dimethoxyphenethylamine (found in var. fissuratus)


Ariocarpus kotschoubeyanus

According to Helia Bravo in her 1937 book, Las Cactaceae de Mexico, A.kotschoubeyanus is known as "pezuna de venado" (cloved hoof of the deer) or "pata de venado" (deer's foot). The plants titles are interesting not only because of the hoofed shaped tubercles of A. kotschoubeyanus, but also due to the relationship of deer symbolism to L. williamsii, the primary peyote cactus.

A. kotschoubeyanus appears to have mistakenly gained a reputation as a peyote species. This may have occurred through the inclusion of the plant in a listing of peyote species compiled by Richard Evans Schultes, the famed Harvard University ethnobotanist who had studied the use of peyote among the people and tribes of the American southwest and Mexico. In his article, Peyote and Plants Confused With It, Schultes indicated that his information regarding A. kotschoubeyanus was drawn from Bravo's work, but Bravo makes no mention of the plants being known as peyote. Schultes also goes on to state that the species is "said to be either narcotic or medicinal," but he offers no accounts of such usage or where such information may have come from. This of course begs the question of who informed Schultes about this and many other peyote plants' status as "either narcotic or medicinal." It is uncertain if Schultes collected his own data or if he simply extrapolated from prior publications to gain his understanding of narcotic or medicinal cactus. This must be kept in mind regarding all of the other plants that Schultes claimed to be narcotic or medicinal peyote species.

The notion that A. kotschoubeyanus is distinctly known as peyote appears to have been sustained through Anderson's listing of it in Peyote: The Divine Cactus as having "at one time or another been called 'peyote,' or the Spanish diminutive 'peyotillo'."

No solid evidence exist that A. kotschoubeyanus was truly considered a peyote by the aboriginal populations, but no doubt its use in a manner similar to known peyote species, for pains and rheumatism, demands its inclusion in any study of the subject. Like other Ariocarpus species, its mucilage is also known as an effective glue.

A. kotschoubeyanus gets its name from Prince Kotschoubey who paid more than their weight in gold for one of three plants originally brought to Europe in the 19th century.
Hordenine
N-Methyltyramine


Ariocarpus retusus

The Huichol believe that those who transgress the Huichol ethical code or have not ceremonially purified themselves prior to the collection of peyote (L. williamsii) will be led to "tsuwíri" (A. retusus) by supernatural forces and suffer "terrible psychic agonies." They consider tsuwíri a "false peyote" due to its undesirable effects, claiming it is an evil plant that will drive people mad if ingested, and that can also cause permanent insanity. It is considered akin to "kiéri" (Datura meteloides=D. inoxia), a dangerous deliriant Solanaceae species, due to its initial ability to cause seemingly pleasant visual and auditory hallucinations that later mislead the pilgrim away from the group. He will then travel through many terrifying perils, of poisonous creatures, large beasts, and deep pits, leaving him "scratched, full of blood…tired, worn out." He will find himself with "so many cactus spines, so many thorns everywhere," in his clothes, feet, and hands.

Though many peyote are casually cited in the literature as being "false peyote" it appears that A. retusus is the only one to which this title is accurately applied.

A. retusus is used to treat fevers, and most likely has additional medicinal uses similar to other Ariocarpus species and L. williamsii. Sacred Succulents, an ethnobotanical company specializing in "rare, endangered and beneficial xerophytes," claims that recent findings indicate A. retusus' use by "well trained Huichol shamans" who believe it to be a "powerful ally." They also mention how the local population has popularized the smoking of the tubercles. Anderson also supports a more positive role of A. retusus in Huichol culture, stating that it is "used in the harvest festival and other ceremonies also involving peyote." Anderson does not make any bibliographic reference to his source, as he regularly does, and he may have gained his information from uncited personal communications or direct observation.
"Peyote," "chaute/chautle."
Hordenine
N-Methyltyramine
N-Methyl-4-methoxyphenethylamine
N-Methyl-3,4-dimethoxyphenethylamine


Ariocarpus trigonus

A. trigonus can likely be considered a peyote cactus due to Bravo's indication that it is known as chaute, a corruption of the word peyote.

In addition to those Ariocarpus species already mentioned, A. scapharostrus has also been informally reported by Anderson to be used medicinally.
da Sacred and Medicinal Cacti: Peyote, San Pedro and other Ethnopharma


N-Methyltyramine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hordenine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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