Another duality thread.

[zezt]

so talking about peace and anger makes you new age now.

the real authority is in your head, you didn't necessarily create it but it got you by the balls. you revert against any form of authority on the outside, in fact you dedicate big parts of your life and energy to debunk it, but you don't even dare to examine your inner authorities. notice how you start defending yourself already reading this. if you know the Truth, then why are other opinions such a threat to you?

it's not like I don't agree with you on the issue of mechanistic philosophy, it really played a big part in the misery humanity is in right now. the division of spirit and matter is one if not the root of most of the problems we face on this earth right now. it has to change. what I don't agree with is your hate (which helps nothing to heal the divide, to the contrary) for the people who founded the idea of division (or, who gave it a voice), for I believe that Descartes didn't invent this philosophy so that we all now may suffer.

I have freedom TO hate, yeah? I would in no way say to someone suffering having to live in a concrete hell of a slum they mustn't hate. It is natural to feel hate, resentment, terrible anger. Go and preach to the real haters, the powers that be who will think nothing of dropping a nuclear bomb on cities full of life--of dropping tons of weapons tipped with depleted uranium all oever the land and causing diseases, DNA damage and pollution for many thousands of years, and yet will smile in front of the samcera. Go and fukin preach to them. If they can do that I can hate. it does not mean I am hating ALL the time, but do not condescend to tell me how i should feel.

 

[ararat]

my apologies, it is a vice of mine to tell other people how they ought to feel.

 

[zezt]

my apologies, it is a vice of mine to tell other people how they ought to feel.

your forgiven )

 

[Light]

I KNOW about Descartes, I dont need to read his poxy books. I HATE that fucker.

HAHAHA

That's so stupid.

How can you know what he said when you didn't read it?

Maybe you are hating a straw man.

 

[zezt]

I KNOW about Descartes, I dont need to read his poxy books. I HATE that fucker.

HAHAHA

That's so stupid.

How can you know what he said when you didn't read it?

Maybe you are hating a straw man.

it is so ridiculous to claim to someone that if they haven't read a freakin book of such an influential person like Descrtes that somehow I cannot understand what he is done or criticize him, and his influence. It is like saying to pre literal indigenous peoples who have been totally exploited, and had genocide done to them, and ecocide to their lands, that UNLESS they read their conquerers manifestor--Manifest Destiny--that they have no right to err complain? BOLLOKS!!!

I know what Descartes' vile influence has done for millions of animals, and that is all I need to know. I dont need to read your horrible heros books thank you very much.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Oi 'oly fuck!

Listen, zezt - you are an extremist. Period. Your views are extreme, and they aren't necessarily reflections of the reality in which you live. It is VERY easy to come up with paranoia and conspiracies within a government that is as large as ours, in fact - there are plenty to be afraid of.

But casting hate and condemnation does nothing to alleviate the problem. When you are angry with the system, you only exacerbate the problem. If you carry on like this, in this path, and in this motion, you will be attempting to control them - with fear.

You must learn to live within the system, and push the boundaries, just like the rest of us. Constant contesting of our nation's boundaries is how new freedoms are born. We are in power there are just too many of us that are happy [excuse me, you may use the word sedated] with where we are to contest continually that in which we live.

We are not blind - we dwell on both sides of the fence. And as for me, I try to avoid being blinded by anger.

 

[zezt]

I am neither blinded by anger nor by science. I explore, ask questions, and share this with others, and challenge their views if I dont agree with them. That is how it should be.
These friggin suited lying politicians are SUPPOSED to be our 'servants'---dont blame me I didn't make the rules--but it is a pile of crap. It is a pile of crap made out of gobbledegook language meant to confound and twist the mind. This is what this mindset did with idigenous peoples around the world, like native Americans, and why they got called 'forked tongued;--they say one thing and do another---duplicitous, devious, insidious. These people are attacking Mother Earth, so wake up. If you do not want to dont blame others for waking up and encouraging others to do the same.

 

[Light]

I am neither blinded by anger nor by science. I explore, ask questions, and share this with others, and challenge their views if I dont agree with them. That is how it should be.

Sounds a lot like the first few pages of descartes' meditations, if you ask me.

And no, I don't agree with Descartes and he's not my hero. I think in many ways his ideas are dangerous and in many ways he has done some great philosophy. Without reading him, you only look at the charicature you have developed in your own mind. His influence is big, of course, and you can read a lot of what he says in the words of others. But these others appropriate his words and see things through their own prejudices. To blame Descartes for that is just ignorant. I am defending him against your misrepresentation of his ideas. If you are not willing to explore them, ask questions about your own held beliefs, challenge his views directly, than you are playing a schizophrenic mindgame with yourself and the anger is merely directed at a product of your own imagination. Happy insanity!

 

[Light]

And another thing!

Duality of mind and matter was already apparent in Plato. Descartes fits in a very LONG tradition of thinkers.

 

[ararat]

according to a book I'm reading right now, it probably began with the advent of agriculture, when nature was divided into the wild (which formerly was the source of nurturance and all there was) and the parts of nature that you manipulate in order to make it yield food on a higher magnitude than the wild did.

what I wanted you to tell zezt, is that your hating and blustering is completely in vain because it's a waste of energy, and at the same time reinforces the very same separation and division that you blame Descarte for. this is probably what annoyed me in the few posts before. of course you are free to do what you want, but if you are campaigning against duality and at the same time completely immerse your argumentation with it it creates a questionable picture in my head.

 

[zezt]

I am neither blinded by anger nor by science. I explore, ask questions, and share this with others, and challenge their views if I dont agree with them. That is how it should be.

Sounds a lot like the first few pages of descartes' meditations, if you ask me.

And no, I don't agree with Descartes and he's not my hero. I think in many ways his ideas are dangerous and in many ways he has done some great philosophy. Without reading him, you only look at the charicature you have developed in your own mind. His influence is big, of course, and you can read a lot of what he says in the words of others. But these others appropriate his words and see things through their own prejudices. To blame Descartes for that is just ignorant. I am defending him against your misrepresentation of his ideas. If you are not willing to explore them, ask questions about your own held beliefs, challenge his views directly, than you are playing a schizophrenic mindgame with yourself and the anger is merely directed at a product of your own imagination. Happy insanity!

you sound like an apologist for Descartes. I do not see why that all people in the world should have to bow down at western 'thinkers' as though they MUSt be read, and they were vital for the evolution of thought. I am not buying that---more so they are CHOSEN and PROMOTED by an elite to further their designs, in this case their mechanistic philosophy they impose on their slaves.
And you are right it does have its roots in Plato. I would be curious where you get your info for that. Many people seem to also be apologists for old Plato--another old dude I cant stand and will not be reading his books in the near future, but have read significant passages from thejm, and info about them. Thats all I needs thanks Life is too short to HAVE to read books by people you do not admire. I bet I got books you aint read, but I would not hold that against you, though might recommend them to you to read lol

Are indigenous peoples UN intelligent to you because they have n't read your precious Descartes, or Plato etc?

 

[zezt]

according to a book I'm reading right now, it probably began with the advent of agriculture, when nature was divided into the wild (which formerly was the source of nurturance and all there was) and the parts of nature that you manipulate in order to make it yield food on a higher magnitude than the wild did.

Depends what phase of 'agriculture' you mean. Goddess peoples acquired their religious understanding and cosmology from understanding how plants grow, and the cycles of the seasons, and heavens etc, and they were not dualistic. They understood that for lightness to be there has to be darkness. The seed grows in darkness. For life there has to be death, and where there is death there is regeneration. Where agriculture becomes divisive will be when it gets controlled by a patriarchy which divides light from dark, and used yield as acumulation of wealth. When the earth is not seen as the Mother, but as a recepticle for the male seed.

what I wanted you to tell zezt, is that your hating and blustering is completely in vain because it's a waste of energy, and at the same time reinforces the very same separation and division that you blame Descarte for. this is probably what annoyed me in the few posts before. of course you are free to do what you want, but if you are campaigning against duality and at the same time completely immerse your argumentation with it it creates a questionable picture in my head.

I think you may be meaning a different kind of duality to me then. As I understand it, and this is explained more in-depth in this book: The Guru papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power the Eastern Advaita version of non duality is really phony. It is in opposition to the 'many'. In other words the doctrine pretends there is a state of being which is non dualistic and which through dharma can be accomplihsed, though this may take many lifetimes. Out of this myth has grown the guru system where these men, usually with beards, are pre-sumed to be superior and nondualistic, and so a lot of contradictory behaviour is ignored, and explained away, by their devotees because he IS their guru and assumes this authority over them. So that is that interpretation.

Mine is that duality is the idea you can have light with out dark, and placid nature without ANGER, and tears without laughter, and seriousness without giggling, and life without death.

of course I am angry at 'thinkers' like Descartes. If I thought that MY thinking which got published to millions and future generations would cause SO much degradations, suffering and death to MILLIONS of animals, I would be VERY angry at myself. Inconsolable.

 

[Light]

zezt, come on.

You accuse people of things they never said. Both to me and others here on the forum and Descartes.

You're a hypocrit.

Get your shit together.

 

[zezt]

zezt, come on.

You accuse people of things they never said. Both to me and others here on the forum and Descartes.

You're a hypocrit.

Get your shit together.

you spell hypocit 'hypocrite'

heard of implication? And please dont talk for others, but for yourself.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Zezt lots of love coming from you...

You're preaching to the choir, yet condemning us for not being as extreme as you.

 

[zezt]

Zezt lots of love coming from you...

You're preaching to the choir, yet condemning us for not being as extreme as you.

are you part of a gang or are yus talkin northern?

 

[IJesusChrist]

what?

 

[goldwine119]

At the same time, I have noticed that I have completely lost my ability to see deeper and higher into ideas. At one point in my life I thought I had peaked in my capabilities to see deeper patterns and importance in things. I was in a canoe and watching ripples in the water with a tiny dose of psilocybin. It was no longer a lake I was looking at, it was gravities pull on a hole in the earth, filled with water from a long since gone glacier, and I had realized how small the earth was - simply from a ripple in the water. With this very intense empathy and insight of my past - which is hard to explain, it simply is observational - came great dread. I would often find myself alone, even with friends. I felt unconscious, as if I was simply viewing the movie screen of my life, far off in the distance.

 

[zezt]

MAYBE that was just an IMAGE associated with even deeper stuff you have not resolved with yet, and that this now is subconsciously affecting your relationships. I would encourage you take another trip, and create the set and setting by --in a journal--writing down as MUCh as you can about that trip, and what you feel it was saying to you, and also if your inclined draw pictures---this doesn't have to be representational, but kind of like from imagination and see what unfolds for you in this picture.

And then talk to your favoured substance--to the spirits (this is your intent)--what you wich to explore, and for setting you may choose a similar place, or whatsoever you feel is for you.

 

[IJesusChrist]

At the same time, I have noticed that I have completely lost my ability to see deeper and higher into ideas. At one point in my life I thought I had peaked in my capabilities to see deeper patterns and importance in things. I was in a canoe and watching ripples in the water with a tiny dose of psilocybin. It was no longer a lake I was looking at, it was gravities pull on a hole in the earth, filled with water from a long since gone glacier, and I had realized how small the earth was - simply from a ripple in the water. With this very intense empathy and insight of my past - which is hard to explain, it simply is observational - came great dread. I would often find myself alone, even with friends. I felt unconscious, as if I was simply viewing the movie screen of my life, far off in the distance.

Are you going to comment or just copy and paste what I said :lol: