Alienation

[Ahuaeynjxs]

Neo is a myth ? :x :? :(

 

[Nomada]

lol I reread the posts and felt funny. Thanks for the advice everyone.

I may have an intense and overly reactive way of comunicating. I go flex with easy and start popping metaphors and romantic body sentences. I have a sort of androginus body language that orthodox up here may find disturbing. To say a couple of things. I do feel a huge sadness for communicating my inmensity of it all and that is probably the main reason for casual alienations since it often manifests as intensity.

lol the "dangerous" was meant in a kind of figurative. I´ve never gotten into physical or non, violence. twas dangerous as a social predicament loose runnning around.

Differently as I used to feel a couple of years ago, specially during high shcool, I am not angry or sad because of it, as HeartC says I often feel proud of it. On the other hand I know not everyone wants to be a Alien abord mothership Earth cruising through Tarsis´celestial Garden. It´s fine I´m not into what they try to impose me as a culture. I can´t feel superior or inferior because that light asenscion to the mystery like what I may vainly attempt to name "deeper realities" fundamentally consist of feeling equal to every other morphing tumult of dust wandering out there.
What really really bothers is how are you supposed to "meet", or get to know anyone when everyone is fighting to wear the same fuking mask? (Not everyone ofcourse, there are some clowns out there I like to bite things with) I can filtrate myself to obtain resources from the matrix, but it hurts every word not said, every fight not played, every universe not happening. My heart breakes every instant. Every word, fight and universe with everybody else, with the whole of existance. We are not getting anywhere with this joke. I want to burn it all to the ground and I´m geting increasingly indifferent as to what happens to me by attempting it.
In the end I know it will all just go clay again, but within the confines of my spiritual travel I must try. It´fine, tragedies are beautiful.

By psychonautism I mean all of what it implies bodily, spiritually and hence linguistically.

There´s a huge party on the other floors of the forest. We really should go and see.

 

[st.bot.32]

I may have an intense and overly reactive way of comunicating. I go flex with easy and start popping metaphors and romantic body sentences. I have a sort of androginus body language that orthodox up here may find disturbing. To say a couple of things.

This is such a difficult thing to deal with. Adjusting yourself so you can better relate to others, or they can better relate to you. Edited-for-tv me(tm). There have been times of my life where, looking back, I don't feel any regret for sticking true to myself even if it put me in a difficult spot. There were times when on the other hand that was just holding me back. It's a question of really examining your beliefs at a fundamental level and finding personal principles/guidelines that lead you through murky periods (but still allow you to change your belief structure as you experience new things).

 

[druglessdouglas]

if you cant change the world
change yourself

 

[HeartCore]

bullshit. What Nomada feels is not anything "awakening" at all. Why do you encourage him to continue separating from his friends and environment?

Where did I encourage him? I think I did the opposite so go fuck yourself, you're the first in 2009.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

bullshit. What Nomada feels is not anything "awakening" at all. Why do you encourage him to continue separating from his friends and environment? If he (resp you) is/are feeling unwell by this alienation it is a clear symptom to change something in the own behaviour. Not changing oneself or doing what one likes, but changing communication with the environment.

I agree that for most of us, communication with others can always be improved. I think one can do both (as I've attempted myself): dive deeper into the mystery, and learn to relate with people in RL better and so diminish my sense of loneliness and aloneness.

 

[Forkbender]

What really really bothers is how are you supposed to "meet", or get to know anyone when everyone is fighting to wear the same fuking mask?

if you cant change the world
change yourself

drop your own mask and people will perhaps start to feel comfortable enough to drop theirs.

 

[zezt]

GREAT thread! :) and HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone :)
Nomada , HI, first thing i thought when I read you was 'i want to get to KNOW this guy. So i clicked on your name, but apparently that doesn't work here. Ie., where you find another's pm, or details clickin on their handle?...maybe i have forgot what to do?
But either me contact you or vice versa so you can tell me if you have a blog I can checkout, or a Youtube channel, because you sound really interesting---I talk and sing to the trees and wild animals too ;) -- and i feel that if there's any beauty of the Web it is connecting people togther who feel similar things. And I VERY much encourage doing that. So I hope you accept invitation, and that goes for others of course

I feel you should be true to yourself. What I am very into is deeply exploring the MYTH OF MENTAL ILLNESS. This is the central myth of our times and is what is in you face (and mine and others) when people call you 'freak', 'loony', 'weirdo', 'retarded', and all those other 'charming' labels. Cause bascially dude they are as much victims of this myth as you and me is. Though many will pretend to be cool with things...................Yeahhhhh sure!

 

[magickmumu]

bullshit. What Nomada feels is not anything "awakening" at all. Why do you encourage him to continue separating from his friends and environment? If he (resp you) is/are feeling unwell by this alienation it is a clear symptom to change something in the own behaviour. Not changing oneself or doing what one likes, but changing communication with the environment.

I agree that for most of us, communication with others can always be improved. I think one can do both (as I've attempted myself): dive deeper into the mystery, and learn to relate with people in RL better and so diminish my sense of loneliness and aloneness.

Psychedelics helped me opening up and relating more to other people.
Doing a couple of ayahuasca sessions (with some people I did not knew) helped me a lot.

 

[restin]

Tibetan saying (as I was told): "Its best to never start on the path of awakening but once you do, you better finish it."

you say here that if he started the path of awakening (which for him is obviously considered as alienation) he should continue = continue separating from the community. But my post was rather referring to CM. Nonetheless, I am proud to be the first fucker in 2009, thank you, darling.

 

[Brugmansia]

What is going on?
The intensity of the alienating process seems proportional to how far I've been taking what can be called my "psychonautism".

When Neo took the red pill, he was instantly alienated from the Matrix. This was extremely disconcerting to him at first, but once he learned and then accepted the truth he no longer felt alienated, but empowered. If you want to get rid of that feeling of alienation, see how far the rabbit hole really goes. From where you are now, there's no turning back. Go furthur.

Tibetan saying (as I was told): "Its best to never start on the path of awakening but once you do, you better finish it."

Amen.

 

[st.bot.32]

drop your own mask and people will perhaps start to feel comfortable enough to drop theirs

i agree that is ideal, otherwise you will go through life with very shallow relationships that never really have any honesty to them

the problem is when you are completely on your own, there are circumstances where dropping the mask just feels like it can't be done. in my case like living in the middle of Redneck-ville, Nowhere, for example. a fresh start in a more liberal part of the world with like-minds about was exactly what i needed.. (not saying it was easy, either). oh, and having gone through a lengthy period of being dishonest with myself to the point of living a life i didn't agree with just to fit in, it took me a long while to find my feet and find where the real me had wandered off to

 

[Nomada]

drop your own mask and people will perhaps start to feel comfortable enough to drop theirs.

I´ve felt the problem is not having or not, a mask. We all have one and I think it´s fine. What I was saying is not that everyone wears a mask to hide. But that everyone is trying to wear the same mask as everyone else, and thus hide. Cultural infection operates by silencing one´s voice. Integration into the social matrix doesn´t necessarily come with self consicusness.

We can all recognize ourselves as diverse in the experience of the world. Then, masks can face each other like when you wear one at a carnival. With the shame, and pride completely forgotten. I want a party of mutual human recognition not a fragmentary one and patological with itself, the self, the world-all manifestations of the same face.

Dammit I´m drunk. lol ...I think I may have gotten lost in the faces metaphor. Help me.

 

[druglessdouglas]

wear a mirror, not a mask

 

[Arcticpheonix]

in my case like living in the middle of Redneck-ville, Nowhere, for example.

Wow, don't suppose you were on the east coast by any chance? I'm in NS currently, and it most definitely counts as Redneck-ville, Nowhere.

That said, I personally find it easier to simply keep this area of my life to myself in regards to all but my closest of friends (and those of like mind).

 

[peach]

I'm going to have to bomb some negative vibes on this thread only in the interest of playing fair to both sides

I myself have severely disconnected from normal society. My friends I can count on a hand and I rarely keep in contact. Lots of them have drifted away in a stereotypical 'drug addict' manner when I fail to live up to more normal ideas on how things work - lying around pilled up on my floor as opposed to meeting up for something to eat. I also won't agree with other psychonauts that pondering trips and drugs 24/7 like they're somehow the correct way to live or explaination of every problem is the best idea. Neither am I happy with the idea that smoking a joint every now and again shows you the potential of what's possible. So I sit neither with those lost to drugs or those who live normal lives.

A number of my friends during my teens would call me to go out for a drink and the evening would be terrible. No one was really having fun and I felt they were waiting for me to entertain them with something zany. When it turned into going out to just get wasted drunk and not doing anything genuinely enjoyable, I decided it was annoying me and I stopped going so often. I eventually stopped answering the phone or door for years when they wouldn't pick up on the fact that I wasn't enjoying our experiences.

I am not nasty in anyway or creepy and I make a special effort to hear and imagine myself when I talk to people, I am simply lost between the two groups.

I can attribute some of my disconnection to growing up. My dad died when I was young and my home quickly deteriorated into a particularly negative atmosphere. It was always too messy to invite friends round (to the point where you literally couldn't sit down), so I never did. At that time, I also started getting interest in tripping. It didn't steal me away from life or ruin my life. I did it partly because I couldn't have friends round, partly because I was interested in the idea of why I liked and disliked certain things (like a certain taste) and if I could change this through thinking differently, partly because I thought tripping was far more interesting than alcohol in terms of the more obvious other effects and because I also bought into their problem solving capacity too much at first - that I might discover all the answers to my profound questions with them. I have indeed experienced some things I am grateful for. The colorful mind and crazy, unique way of thinking is one. Another experience stands out well, when I thought I was dying after taking Pantharinas and got to experience the emotions I might feel during death first hand. It was a little scary as it happened, but I was very happy to have felt it afterwards - unlike my less crazy thinking beginner trip partner who saw not much in it beyond fear.

Since then, I have wised up much more to what drugs are worth.

But during this period, my separation from everyday ideas on having fun has become arguably too great to fit back in - I am also aware that I may be using this as an excuse not to make the effort or through fear of not being able to do it.

I have missed out on a lot, having fun with friends and messing around with girls without caring, but also gained. The two are in equal proportions and I view them as an exchange rather than a gain or loss. The important thing being the recognition that focusing too much on the other detracts from the whole picture.

It's important to recognize and be honest with why you're using a drug - if you're taking it just to get messed up and have an excuse because you can't fit in at a party anymore, fine, but admit it and then you can work rapidly from there and enjoy it a lot more. While I am one of the most sensitive people I know to finding something to gain from an experience, I can also admit that I often take things purely because I have nothing else to entertain me or can't (or don't think I can) get back into normality in a way that convinces everyone else I haven't spent a while away.

It's quite possible you have evolved to a state where you are blind to covering up elements of your life with the excuse of exploring, when in reality a lot of it is distraction and excuses.

That is not to say connecting with society is something you absolutely must do to be a good person, I am one of those people that also appreciates being alone, wandering around forests or fields on my own. Thinking normality is below you is bullshit for sure. That's the early stages, pure denial. Stages that some people never see through.

No body is invulnerable to loneliness. After enough of it, everyone wants someone new to talk to and a new way of thinking to explore. Recognize that while others may not have the experience you do with altered mindstates, there are still none the less a great many with experiences you don't have (grounded in normal reality) and that you will gain from being around someone who's had them. Ask yourself what someone else has to gain from your experiences. Even with an encyclopedic knowledge of chemicals, there is little others will find interesting about me on those grounds alone - listing all the things you've done and things you think are crazy, lifechanging or spiritually important is often not going to make anyone think anything other than "this is not some brave explorer, but a person hiding from reality". Particularly when you focus on it to the point of not being able to talk about anything else.

Even though tripping is what got me interested in drugs, it's also one I dislike quite a lot based on the attitudes associated with the users in that they are in someway superior to other drug class users. That because it's inherently safer most of the time and none addicting or involves some ancient ritual, abuse of it as a distraction is somehow different to abusing pills, coke or IV'ing.

You can give in to it and just be happy being entirely disconnected from normal people. But it's painfully lonely at times and pretending it isn't doesn't work all the time.

A bigger risk is that the disconnection sees someone return to or confirm their "everyone else is wrong, normal people suck, the world doesn't understand", bitter, twisted up views that they never got over. They may not understand every facet of your life, as you don't understand all of theirs.

Unless you have some phenomenal determination, such extreme disconnection can eventually led you to only try for it harder and harder - blasting away your life in distraction from other possibilities.

I am guilty of this myself, but I also see it and recognize what is happening and what the results are. I come up with excuses for it, some of which I think are valid at the moment, others that I've come to realize where just excuses. The difference is that I now have a better awareness of what's going on and when I'm lying to myself.

 

[Nomada]

good post. I didn't feel any negative vibes from over here. :wink:

tripping in dark rooms and going monastery every now and then, as well as the rest of psy technologies one may use gets you, besides weird, conscious of your own weirdness. I bring these glowing symbols back to the Hive because of this all so basic urge to communicate. This computes, socially, as consciousness of being particular, distinguishable from every one else.
But everyone is fuking weird all right, particular, particularly nuts and neurotic. There are just some that believe we are, or should be, "normal" and "sane". The cultural institutions impose an arbitrary order, projecting it as truth or necessity or some other idea with a value attached to it.

I long to share the weird glowing ideas I find on journeys with the matrix of sociality, in order to produce ideas and materials intersubjectively. But, the matrix, with its closed boundaries and ossified mental structures doesn't allow mutagenic communication.
It's not "better" nor "worst", just weird: the primal emanation of the Otherness, the mystery, that we use to sail the mindscape. Filtering yourself and adapting often, and maybe too often means shutting the fuck up. This is what makes me sad. I'm constantly trying to reach for the Otherness of whoever I encounter but they often reject the signal and instead resonate their robotic syndromes in their all so comfort comfort zone (not that I'm king of not having comfort zones or anything :P).

Imagine crossbreeding our light bodies when we speak, crossbreeding language and symbols instead of having to align yourself with the same communication channels under the same logic all the time.

...The cultural beast that could then arise is beyond of what I can compute. The always increasing bubbles in Mckenna's pond???

 

[Nomada]

if you cant change the world
change yourself

I understand and concur. But, continuing incessantly, to what extend and with what consequences can you separate yourself from your surroundings?

the distinction one/universe is momentary and formal. I can't really tell where do you end and I begin.

One presents oneself to the turbulence as such, carrying and operating in around whatever distances you've crossed on the mental epithelium as far as the fire eye may see...although limitless in much ways, is that as far as it goes?

I believe everyone is meant to be enlightened, together.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I also won't agree with other psychonauts that pondering trips and drugs 24/7 like they're somehow the correct way to live or explaination of every problem is the best idea.

Psychonauts don't ponder trips and drugs, they ponder life. Life includes relationships and responsibilities. A psychonaut is the opposite of an escapist. To the extent that you escape insights and responsibilities, you're not really a psychonaut in my book. You may be a stoner or a recreative user, but not a psychonaut.

Neither am I happy with the idea that smoking a joint every now and again shows you the potential of what's possible.

Agreed.

I am not nasty in anyway or creepy and I make a special effort to hear and imagine myself when I talk to people, I am simply lost between the two groups.

I still hang on to the belief that there is a third group. But it will be difficult finding them in RL.

I can attribute some of my disconnection to growing up.

That´s a very wise statement (as long as you're not blaming anyone). Our early childhood and home experience to a large extent shapes how we interact with the world later in life. It's hardly ever the ' drugs' themselves. I'm sorry to hear about the early separation from your dad.

Another experience stands out well, when I thought I was dying after taking Pantharinas and got to experience the emotions I might feel during death first hand.

Why Panterinas?

I have missed out on a lot, having fun with friends and messing around with girls without caring, but also gained.

I can relate to that!

It's quite possible you have evolved to a state where you are blind to covering up elements of your life with the excuse of exploring, when in reality a lot of it is distraction and excuses.

I think it already helps a lot if you at least have a job that ' forces' you to associate with the 'normal' people. I've learned a lot from my employers and customers throughout the years. I prefer to spend my weekends and evenings in solitude rather than going out to party, but I don't feel alienated. The person who doesn't have a job, doesn't have a partner and/or doesn't go to school is much more likely to feel lonely and use psychedelics as a way to combat boredom and misery.

Even though tripping is what got me interested in drugs, it's also one I dislike quite a lot based on the attitudes associated with the users in that they are in someway superior to other drug class users. That because it's inherently safer most of the time and none addicting or involves some ancient ritual, abuse of it as a distraction is somehow different to abusing pills, coke or IV'ing.

From what you write here, it's not apparant that psychonauts consider themselves superior, but that they consider the drugs they use superior in certain ways. I fully agree with that notion. And insofar the psychonaut knows what he's doing and what are the effects and side-effects of the drugs he uses, his usage of drugs is in fact 'superior' to that of the ignorant abuser of uppers, downers and deliriants, or psychedelics. Regarding ancient ritual use, that's another matter. I personally don't think ancient ritual use is necessarily more constructive and useful than modern ways of using psychedelics, including some 'recreational' approaches.

A bigger risk is that the disconnection sees someone return to or confirm their "everyone else is wrong, normal people suck, the world doesn't understand", bitter, twisted up views that they never got over.

With greater learning and insight, bitterness will evaporate. Normal people are ignorant and lost. They are stuck, they don't suck.

 

[zezt]

I see it like playing. When your a child on your own, and/or with other children, before you get schooled. Ie., when you still have sense of the Imagination and magical. Then you can be 'weird' with others, and play imaginary games and have FUN

But then the matrix closes in via programming from school, mass media, peer pressure etc and you are fit into A 'class' and 'function'/role/'what do you do?' and it can all become really drab. Then the only way you can 'let go' is by boozin or druggin it with friends. Thats MY experience

And this is why I want to expose the mental illness myth, because this goes right to the rotting root massive inhibition. Is that you are thought of as 'crazy', and all the other labels IF without booze or drugs you are playful. I have even experienced some people who are fearful of being 'weird' when Tripping!