Adulthood in Western societies

[Space-is-the-Place]

I disagree on this one.
Adult's can see a puddle as a opportunity, but the difference with childeren is that they take responsibility for there action.
Adults clean up there own mesh after stomping around in a puddle.

Depends on what you think adulthood means...

I still think it's a mindstate, wich screws up everything.
When you get older, you don't have to be an adult to live your life.
I think it's just a stupid label humans label themselves with so they can justifiy being ignorant mofo's.

Sounds like you turned that label into what you think should be right.
But we don't need labels to live our lives right?
So adulthood kinda means nothing.

I know certain 16 year olds more responsible and wise then certain 40 year olds, so adulthood certainly has nothing to do with age and
it's not a certain period in your life.
So imho it's just a shallow empty label.

People in general are way to deterministic and need labels to keep all things seperated, failing to realise that everything is connected and with labels only comes confusion and dissasociation.

 

[overman]

"Adulthood" nowadays is simply the final step in the process of indoctrination into the industrialized capitalist world. You conform to the part the system requires in order to be considered a productive member of society, which usually involves giving up childhood curiosity and creative exploration. Few are able to respect their inner child, that which never stops learning and growing, while still being "successful" in the common sense. It's a shame our sense of self-worth is so tied to superfluous materialism.

 

[magickmumu]

I disagree on this one.
Adult's can see a puddle as a opportunity, but the difference with childeren is that they take responsibility for there action.
Adults clean up there own mesh after stomping around in a puddle.

Depends on what you think adulthood means...

I still think it's a mindstate, wich screws up everything.
When you get older, you don't have to be an adult to live your life.
I think it's just a stupid label humans label themselves with so they can justifiy being ignorant mofo's.

Sounds like you turned that label into what you think should be right.
But we don't need labels to live our lives right?
So adulthood kinda means nothing.

I know certain 16 year olds more responsible and wise then certain 40 year olds, so adulthood certainly has nothing to do with age and
it's not a certain period in your life.
So imho it's just a shallow empty label.

People in general are way to deterministic and need labels to keep all things seperated, failing to realise that everything is connected and with labels only comes confusion and dissasociation.

I disagree

So adulthood means nothing? If we start talking like this we might as well shut up.
Or just chant om mani padme hum.
We could say adulthood means nothing, freedom means nothing. Independence means nothing.
Nothingness means nothing
I don't think this helps us right now.

When I write about adulthood, I am not writing about what the culture thinks it is.
I write about what I think it is
I don't think adulthood is a state of mind (at least not in my definition of it) Growing is not a state of mind. Growing just happens. It's a state of being, like childhood is a state of being.

If adulthood was a state of mind every adult would have this same state of mind. I do not believe this.
Maybe someone/somewhere thinks he is very mature, when this happens it's just ego stuff.

Don't understand me wrong. I get what you're trying to say about those labels. (all is one. Be here now) I know. I know.
But I am not of the school of glorifying the peter pan lifestyle.

I don't think not growing up and keeping acting like a child (childish) is glorious or makes one happy.
As opposed to growing up and having a sense of responsibility, being emotionally and psychologically balanced. (not crying when you don't get candy, No temper tantrums and other childlike behavior)

That's what I was getting at.

 

[magickmumu]

People in general are way to deterministic and need labels to keep all things seperated, failing to realise that everything is connected and with labels only comes confusion and dissasociation.

Confusion can be positive. it doesn't have to be something negative. From confusion and disassociation might come new ideas.
In fact, I hope to confuse some of you, as well as I hope some of you understand what I am trying to bring across.

We all use words (labels) saying we use labels to much is saying we talk and think to much (in words). Of course this might be true. But still this is a forum where we use languages to communicate.
So that's what I do.
Otherwise we could all just shut up and be in the now. Which of course if fine, but is a little bit boring for this forum. And it has nothing to do with the subject where discussing.

 

[magickmumu]

I know certain 16 year olds more responsible and wise then certain 40 year olds, so adulthood certainly has nothing to do with age and
it's not a certain period in your life.
So imho it's just a shallow empty label.

.

If a 16 year old person act,s more responsible and is wiser then a 40 year old, the 16 year old is more grown up in my opinion. More mature, more adult
I never said adulthood has only to do with age. I think you misunderstood my post.

However when we look at 16 year old people and compare them with a 40 year old, usually the 40 year old has bigger feeling of responsibility. This is all natural of course because a 16 year old has not the same responsibility of the 40 year old.
How many 16 year old people do you know with a house a wife or kids???
It's natural that you mature over age.

 

[Crimzen]

so u need a house, a wife and kids to be an adult?

i think adulthood is just a label, but then labels have their place sometimes
theres no clear distinction of when or how one becomes an adult other than the legal age of adulthood the 'drinking age' lol
off topic- and they wonder why so many young people die from drink driving, its because you give them both the right to drive and the right to drink alcohol at once and then tell them not to do both at once

i think there should be a coming-of-age kind of thing in western society, personally i felt my first tattoo was my coming of age rather than my 18th bday, i had already done more than many adults before i had turned 18
through my whole life people have always called me 'mature for my age' and i always hung out with 'older kids' in fact i still do, i dont have any friends that are younger than me other than 1 school friend whos like 2 weeks younger
i was what most people think of an adult by the age of 16 easily

 

[magickmumu]

EDIT
For you it's your tattoo for someone else it might be something else, like going on a journey.

In tribal cultures these initiation rituals are usually very painful and sometimes dangerous.
Think of scarification, circumcision, the ant ritual.
Others involve plant medicine and/or poison.

And no you don't need a house and a kid to be an adult.

 

[Mr.Smith]

adulthood is a degenerative disease caused by the smell of baby sick at 3am

 

[Space-is-the-Place]

Or just chant om mani padme hum.

What's wrong with chanting om mani padme hum? :roll:

freedom means nothing. Independence means nothing.

Have you seen the world lately?

Growing is not a state of mind. Growing just happens. It's a state of being, like childhood is a state of being.

This I totally agree on.

If adulthood was a state of mind every adult would have this same state of mind.

No that's not true, cause some "adults" are not very mature, wich is basicly a state of min they are still in, so adulthood is really relative.

Don't understand me wrong. I get what you're trying to say about those labels. (all is one. Be here now) I know. I know.
But I am not of the school of glorifying the peter pan lifestyle.

So being intouch with the innerchild and being in the here and now means living a peter pan lifestyle to you?

I don't think not growing up and keeping acting like a child (childish) is glorious or makes one happy.
As opposed to growing up and having a sense of responsibility, being emotionally and psychologically balanced. (not crying when you don't get candy, No temper tantrums and other childlike behavior)

This has nothing to do with being in touch with the child within, this is being childish.
Tamper tantrums also happen with grownups, so this is not unique for a child.
If kids are treated well by their parents they're also emotionally and psychologically balanced, so it usually is not their fault if they act in such manner.
What I meant was keeping intouch with the innerchild, still be playful, blow bubbles, throw a frisbee, jump in pools of water, go out in the rain, play, have fun and don't forget that child inside you who needs care and attention.
This has nothing to do with being childish, there are grownups acting more childish then some kids.

 

[Space-is-the-Place]

However when we look at 16 year old people and compare them with a 40 year old, usually the 40 year old has bigger feeling of responsibility.

Yeah like politics, war, murder, rape... :roll:

How many 16 year old people do you know with a house a wife or kids???

2 now and 1 started out at 16, working for his rent and taking care of his pregnant girlfriend and I know a girl who has been living on her own since 15

It's natural that you mature over age.

No it's not, it should be, but it's not.

 

[TwymX]

You guys maybe forget that the average guy needs help and is likely clueless about his options in life. Don't get me wrong, I don't say we're a cut above the usual. Maybe we are different. Psychedelics change the way a psychonaut sees, hears, feels, and thinks. Maybe every one of us has a different outlook on life. But the "average" guy, the "straight", unstoned, non psychonaut guy, needs a marker, or what you call labels. He's (or she's) told: "Well, you're an adult now. You've got more responsibility. Yes, leaving home, family and friends is difficult. Get a degree, get a job, get a wife...get of this...get of that...". And all these things that define adulthood in western societies act like a marker. My point isn't whether it's right or not. But, what if people need to get a grip on reality (or at least what they call reality)?

 

[magickmumu]

However when we look at 16 year old people and compare them with a 40 year old, usually the 40 year old has bigger feeling of responsibility.

Yeah like politics, war, murder, rape... :roll:

How many 16 year old people do you know with a house a wife or kids???

2 now and 1 started out at 16, working for his rent and taking care of his pregnant girlfriend and I know a girl who has been living on her own since 15

It's natural that you mature over age.

No it's not, it should be, but it's not.

O so everybody above 16 is into politics murder and rape.? :shock:
What's up with that.
And by the way. I never wrote that adulthood has only to do with age.

 

[Space-is-the-Place]

I know the politics, murder, rape thing was largely overexagurated.
But growing old doesn't necisarrily mean that people get more responsible.
And you already suggested that adulthood doesn't have anything to do with age.
But you did ask how many 16 year olds I knew that had a house, wife and/or kids.
Ok ok, it was rethoric, still wanted to answer though :roll:

I can live with the fact that we have different opinions about/definitions of adulthood and I can imagine you can too

:heart:

 

[magickmumu]

. I have the feeling your definition of adulthood is a very negative.
Adults murder have no imagination ect.

I don't agree with that.

 

[restin]

I think that magickmumu has a good point. Becoming adult is, I think, connected to responsibility, at least personal one. Taking responsibility for your own acts is for me a step towards adulthood. Yet, I also agree, many adults lose their imagination...which is quite sad. I think this is called having the "inner child" which is a good thing.

At least from the point of society, there is no ritual to adulthood but rather the continuous process of giving the child more and more responsibility - in some countries it is 21 one, in some 18. Although I think there is no age limit to adulthood/childhood, these are quite good measures resp. a good age to standardize "responsibilitation".

 

[Space-is-the-Place]

. I have the feeling your definition of adulthood is a very negative.
Adults murder have no imagination ect.

I don't agree with that.

Have you even read what I typed?
I admit overexagurating.
On the other hand, yes adults murder, yes adults have no imagination.
So adults aren't necissarilly more responsible.

 

[magickmumu]

I disagree.
Do you have no imagination? Do you murder people?
I don't think so.
There are plenty of adults with imagination.

 

[GOD]

I dont like the words grown up and adult . What do they mean ? Just because someone is a certain age it doesnt mean that they automaticaly become better or have the right to claim to win arguments because they are grown up and someone else is to young in their view of things . For most people who claim to be adult / grown up its just an alibi . Most of the fuckers arent grown up they are groan down = moaning buggers that are developing down wards .

Initiations dont garantee that a person is an adult but at least everyone else sees if they have balls , if they shit out , if they can be trusted and if they talk shit . Probably they dont happen in our societys anymore for exactly those reasons .. Imagin if politicians , priests , judges , prosecuters and the pigs had to go through a public initiation , we would all see that most of them are strangers to life and a bunch of shit heads . Not all of them though .

Adults dont murder people , and they do their best to understand and help .

For me what most people call adult has more to do with maturity , just like mature cheese the maturer people think they are the more they stink .

The only adult i know is me..................

 

[magickmumu]

I dont like the words grown up and adult . What do they mean ? Just because someone is a certain age it doesnt mean that they automaticaly become better or have the right to claim to win arguments because they are grown up and someone else is to young in their view of things . For most people who claim to be adult / grown up its just an alibi . Most of the fuckers arent grown up they are groan down = moaning buggers that are developing down wards .

Initiations dont garantee that a person is an adult but at least everyone else sees if they have balls , if they shit out , if they can be trusted and if they talk shit . Probably they dont happen in our societys anymore for exactly those reasons .. Imagin if politicians , priests , judges , prosecuters and the pigs had to go through a public initiation , we would all see that most of them are strangers to life and a bunch of shit heads . Not all of them though .

Adults dont murder people , and they do their best to understand and help .

For me what most people call adult has more to do with maturity , just like mature cheese the maturer people think they are the more they stink .

The only adult i know is me..................

I agree.
Adulthood has also to do with Independence.
Taking care of yourself.
It´s not about talking down towards younger people or anything like that.
Like I said, that´s all ego stuff.

 

[magickmumu]

How many 16 year old people do you know with a house a wife or kids???

2 now and 1 started out at 16, working for his rent and taking care of his pregnant girlfriend and I know a girl who has been living on her own since 15
[/quote]

getting your girlfriend pregnate at age 16 that´s real mature. :roll: