Quoi de neuf ?

Bienvenue sur Psychonaut.fr !

En vous enregistrant, vous pourrez discuter de psychotropes, écrire vos meilleurs trip-reports et mieux connaitre la communauté

Je m'inscris!

'06 recreational drug toxicity research

izmar

Glandeuse pinéale
Inscrit
18 Déc 2004
Messages
146
This American research, of which the results have been publish mid 2006, has some positive conclusions on the use of the classic, visionary psychedelics and several popular shamanistic and medicinal plants and other kinds of drugs.

"Ranking psychoactive substances by their ratios of lethal dose to effective dose gives a general picture of how likely each is to precipitate an acute fatal reaction. By this measure, many illicit drugs are considerably safer than alcohol."

Check it out:
http://www.americanscientist.org/templa ... =yes#50979
 

Brewmaster

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
21 Août 2006
Messages
1 620
I've seen this chart before and have to say that is utter horse shit.

Mescaline is more dangerous than ketamine!?!?!
Considering that there is absolutely no recorded death of any human from the result of a mescaline overdose; I don't hardly think so.

And nutmeg is more dangerous than datura?... Well that's just fucking stupid.

It looks to me that this "graph" was just thrown together in a hap-hazard way, with absolutely no attention to REAL facts and figures; by someone with an agenda to prove how bad alcohol is in comparrison to mj, lsd, and psilocybin. Of course I agree with that much, but this chart doesn't seem to represent any real scientific data what-so-ever.
 
G

Guest

Invité
Geeeeez, the last one I saw was A BIT more accurate...

Well, anyway, this kind of graph is invaluable to piss off some narrow-minded anti-drugs people (especially when they're alcooholic :twisted: )

EDIT : Plus, I don't think it's a good idea to say that the dangerosity of a drug = ratio fatal dose / effective dose, there's alot of things around here that aren't "first trip = death", but who are definately dangerous in another way, like meth, or crack...
 

sychopk

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
22 Jan 2007
Messages
50
Ahhh, yes. Statistics. Human's excuse for making any opinion validated. Make uo a couple of numbers and now your biass opinion is supported by "cold hard facts". Every couple of seconds people die (i'm still ticking), couple of times every minute a women gets beat up. I'm not saying this doesn't just that statistics lie as a means to pursuade you to thinks someway else.

Hey if it were for statistics i would never get out of my own bed. You know how many people die doing stupid things in their own home? yep there is a statistic for that too.

8)

Peace out
 

silv

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
2 Jan 2007
Messages
1 518
Nice to read, but imho (and someoeone famous once said this):

"There's lies, Damn Lies and Statistics"
 

HeartCore

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
22 Août 2004
Messages
5 284
Mescaline is more dangerous than ketamine!?!?!
Considering that there is absolutely no recorded death of any human from the result of a mescaline overdose; I don't hardly think so.

I tried to bring this to you a while back but your reaction made me decide to let it drop since I dont have any personal thing with mescalin.

But I heard/read this many time before. It has to do with the fact, if I remember correctly and NOW I'm too lazy to look it up, mescalin doesnt fit the tryptamin family but the amfetamin family and for this reason, it has a lousy LD50.

I cant back it up, its just what I read and assumed true, this research only seems to confirm it.
 

Dr. Leospace

Alpiniste Kundalini
Inscrit
28 Oct 2005
Messages
686
Quite interesting report...

To the critics: I don't think this study wants to prove that drug A is definitely more dangerous than drug B. Comparing the lethal dose to the normal usage dose is just one way to look at it. This is also what Robert S. Gable explains in his article.

To classify more specific if a drug is dangerous, researchers should in my opinion also look at long-term side effects or not-lethal health problems. IE: If you take a sleeping pill and end-up in a wheel-chair for the rest of your life, I would consider this drug as dangerous although it is not lethal.
 

amoak

Alpiniste Kundalini
Inscrit
11 Mai 2006
Messages
670
exactly , people in this forum have a big problem in interpretation , or nobody had read the text because this guy is trying to defend all psychedelics , in my opinion is a very positive view
and he say that mescaline is very safe drug not dangereus , read it
 

Brewmaster

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
21 Août 2006
Messages
1 620
It kinda makes me mad to see this up on the front page. The article reads like it was written by a college student trying to defend the harmlessness of psychedelics versus alcohol. That's all well and good, but this is not a scientific study by any means. Don't think I'm trying to disprove the guy, I know how dangerous alcohol is, but if he were anyone quallified to write a serious essay on the subject, he would have Dr. in front of his name. Most of the article is speculation and BS. He mentions absolutely NO scientific data, facts, studies or names of individuals, labs or corporations that even conducted the studies. All things that make for a legitimate essay.

The most toxic recreational drugs, such as GHB (gamma-hydroxybutyrate) and heroin, have a lethal dose less than 10 times their typical effective dose. The largest cluster of substances has a lethal dose that is 10 to 20 times the effective dose: These include cocaine, MDMA (methylenedioxymethamphetamine, often called "ecstasy") and alcohol. A less toxic group of substances, requiring 20 to 80 times the effective dose to cause death, include Rohypnol (flunitrazepam or "roofies") and mescaline (peyote cactus). The least physiologically toxic substances, those requiring 100 to 1,000 times the effective dose to cause death, include psilocybin mushrooms and marijuana, when ingested.

See this would be where a real writer would include sources of this information. Where did he get these numbers from? from an actual study conducted by professional scientists? how 'bout some names? and dates? Did you just pull these figures out of your ass, did some bum on the street tell you this? Of course they're probably close to accurate. Maybe. But if it were a professional study, there would be more information included, I don't know who Robert Gable is. Oh wait, he's a professor of psychology.

I've found no published cases in the English language that document deaths from smoked marijuana, so the actual lethal dose is a mystery. My surmise is that smoking marijuana is more risky than eating it but still safer than getting drunk.

See, to me, this makes him sound stupid. "I've found"....well just because YOU haven't found a case or study that proves or disproves something doesn't make it fact. I know no one's ever died from smoking pot, I'm just pointing out how to write a serious paper. "My surmise"....okay so I'm just going to take your word for something because you're a professor of psychology? And guess what? smoking it isn't safer. There have been documented cases of people dying from injested marijuana. Oh what's that? you didn't read about any of those cases? Well I guess they just didn't happen.

The common routes of consumption, from the least toxic to the most toxic (in general), are: eating or drinking a substance, depositing it inside the nostril, breathing or smoking it, and injecting it into a vein with a hypodermic syringe.

This is probably my favorite part. This is what I mean by bull shit. You're telling me that it's safer to drink gasoline than it is to inhale it? I could smoke datura seeds all day so I guess it's safe to eat them since "eating or drinking a substance is less toxic than smoked or inhaled". I know a lot of the things he says are "in general" but this is just not good, scientific writing. I like to smoke crack, maybe I'll try eating a big ol' 5 gram rock when I get home. After all, it's safer that way. I breathe air all day, I wonder what would happen if I shot some oxygen into my veins, oh I know; I'll likely have a heart attack or an aneurism.

I know I'm being a bitch, picking apart his essay, and nit-picking over little stuff, I'm just pointing out that it's silly to take something as serious scientific research, when it was written by a professor of psychology who provides no facts or figures, names or dates to any of the claims he makes, and just pulls a pretty little bar graph out of his ass. If there's no recorded death from a mescaline overdose, how is it that it's 40 times more dangerous than lsd? The whole graph is apparently just this guys uneducated guess.

Again, I totally agree with most of what he is saying, and the fact that psychedelics (for most folks) are theoretically safer than alcohol in terms of the ld50, I'm just stunned by the way it was written.
 

Dr. Leospace

Alpiniste Kundalini
Inscrit
28 Oct 2005
Messages
686
@brewmaster: I think you take this article far to seriously. And no offence but your arguments are funny but very far from scientific... :?

And I have Dr. before my name, so everything I say is true. 8)
 

patilan420

Glandeuse pinéale
Inscrit
24 Déc 2005
Messages
190
Dr. Leospace a dit:
And I have Dr. before my name, so everything I say is true. 8)
Oh, realy??

Beacause I'm not a "dr.", so would youtell me
if there are ANY proof for people, dyied from shrooms,DMT,or mescaline??
How many people totaly have dyied from an LSD overdose?
from what kind of study are the data, shown on the diagram??
Or the data is based on ridiculous animal studyies??
If so, to which speeshes the autors of the diagram are trying to equalize us, to white rabits??

:lol:

defenately these psychedelics are almost harmles, compared to alcohol , but since nobody knows the exact (or even the aproximate) lethal dose for humans, all the asumptions based on animal studyies are nothing more than a waste of an inosent life.

human based reserch would be great, but not easy to be organised, since knowing from how much of something a man can dyie reqieres someone to sacrifice himself in the name of science.

untill than I see 3 types of drugs :
lethal( nicotine,atropine, alcohol etc) which can be lethal to some people from a "normal" dose
dangerous(ketamine, speed,opiates MDMA)which can kill some people from few times the normal dose
and soft ( THC,DMT,psylocibin) which may or may not be able to kill rabits, but still has never killed a men so far.

p.s. While an ORAL dose of pure DMT is qite Big, is no surprise, that 50 times that amount can be theoreticaly lethal.
 
Haut