What's your general feeling about China?

[spice]

I believe what you're speaking of is more human nature than something that is centered in a particular race of people, tryptonaut.

We automatically devalue life if we percieve that there is a great excess of it.....whether Chinese or Occidental....I think they are very easy to see it in, though, since they have such a huge population.

As a matter of fact, we tend to devalue EVERYTHING that is available in excess, and this appears to be a hard-wired fault in ALL our cultures.

However, you do have a ponit about them generally....let's not forget, though, that their culture was around wayyyy before this one, and philosophic military generals were writing treatises on the philosophy of
war and conflict thousands of years ago ( Sun-Tzu's 'Art of War') and
they are steeped in disrespect for humanity in general.....

Just imagine if these god-damn republicans have their way, and wage war on the world for a thousand years, on and off, and somehow managed to stick around and survive....their descendants will have become inured to people being killed, it will become TRADITION, and an ACCEPTED way of life, a reality, if you will.

I think what you speak of, their callous attitude and general disrespect,
is just a function of tradition and overpopulation.......but yes, I see your point, definitely.

 

[Bastiaan]

Have you guys seen the south park episode in wich kenny gets to save the planet because he's so good at a psp game heaven vs hell he gets to control the forces of heaven in a real battle of heaven vs hell with a golden psp?
When they bring him back on earth and his soul is gone from heaven they start looking for the person that is next best at the game, but when this person turns out to be Japanese all hope is lost as the Japanese have no soul.. :lol:
Don't worry he dies again and is eventually able to save everything.
I know I'm not being serious, but a laugh once in a while helps in keeping us going imo

As for the Chinese.. I pretty much think they resemble America in a lot of ways being that about 80% of them or more is total spineless and heartless instinctive crap and just like in America, as spice already metioned, very great minded individuals have lived and undoubtedly still live in China.

 

[st.bot.32]

Their culture is one of the oldest in the world, but it is also relatively the newest in a way as well.

Every few hundred years a new regime comes into China, kills off all the educated, burns books, rewrites history and establishes a new government. The reds certainly did this in the twentieth century with their "cultural revolution". (There is a saying I've heard from Chinese that "everyone knows someone who died during the revolution.")

China is really a fascinating country. The chinese myspace has a "report a dissident" button, the people are raised on state literature, eg taught that they freed tibet from a cruel dictator, and anything that the govt doesn't like is outright censored. When you approach a hardcore believer on these subjects, unable to refute these things they will simply accuse you of being anti-china or "trying to hurt the feelings of 1.4 billion people."

For me it is a perfect model of politics replacing religion as a dominant belief system in one's life. Much like here in Canada I notice as well an increasing belief that government should be used to dictate to people how they should live their lives for their own good, and an increasing number of practically unenforceable petty laws that waste our police resources.

The lesson to be learned is that it isn't human nature to question your upbringing, no matter what it is. Humans by our very nature are unable to think for ourselves, whether we believe in the one-party or in an invisible dude in the sky who tells George Bush what to do.

That being said, who knows what the future holds in china. There is massive civil unrest in china every single day, and much of it is not reported. As information becomes more and more accessible, it would be ironic if China gradually became a much freer country while our nations plunge down the rabbit hole of government control.

 

[HappyMind]

Amongst every group of people, there is always someone who is just dislikeable. The same goes for peoples and states I guess... I don't know China well, but everything I hear from there makes the Chinese more disagreeable to me.

I try to be open-minded and everything, but with China it doesn't help. I just don't like their attitude.

China has a communist regime. Says enough...

 

[BuySalviaOnline]

I have nothing against the peasants, its the leaders that scare me here and abroad. This thread reminds me of a song by Electric Six, 'Rock n Roll Evacuation', lyrics below:

This is an evil generation
I see with my eyes
I seen’em walking around in their suits
And honey I seen the ties

Evil girls biting good girls
Turning good girls into evil girls
Evil boys eating evil hamburgers
Evil boys eating evil fries

This is an evil generation
Rock and Roll Evacuation
As far as the eye can see
Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey
Tune Into this radio station
Rock and Roll Evacuation
In a fit of emergency

We are just hungry little creatures
Feeding upon lies
I seen’em lining us up on the wall
And trading us for pies


Seen a man on the television telling me to listen to the radio
Hear the man on the radio, telling me no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

This is a bad, bad situation
Rock and Roll Evacuation
It’s not looking too good to me
Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey
Evil Spreads across the nation
Rock and Roll Evacuation
Apocalyptic insurgency

You kill the body child, but the head is still gonna live
You can give all your money now, until there’s nothing left to give
You can play your electric guitar but it ain’t gonna change the world
You can get all emotional on me, cry like a little girl
Cry

We are disposable creations, they’re throwing us away
Ignoring everything that we do and everything that we say
Mr. President make a little money, sending people you don’t know to iraq
Mr. President I don’t like you, you don’t know how to rock

This is an evil generation
Rock and Roll Evacuation
As far as the eye can see
Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey
Tune Into this radio station
Rock and Roll Evacuation
In a fit of emergency

 

[druglessdouglas]

china is turning into another consumer society, which will be theyre downfall. in some ways they were better as a purely communist society- not as individuals maybe, theres a lot of hunger in china- but as a society. now they want economic growth and to consume like the rest of us. the problem is this 10 apples minus 10 apples equal zero apples. theyre economic growth is not sostainable. if its tibet you are thinking about, it wasnt so long ago it was part of the brittish empire, china and britain ruled it side by side and gb only got out because it had little of value. now chine wants to be another greenfly on the rose because the west has told them thats how it should be. but it cant last, nor can it last for the west. china is no different from the west. it just a

pears so because we are programmed to look for differences.

 

[st.bot.32]

Whenever I read about china I'm reminded of the famous 1984 quote: If there is hope, it lies in the proles. Things are chaging in china slowly. We don't hear about all the uprisings and civil revolts because the state media clamps down on it, but frequently such information still leaks through. The fact is, people don't like being treated like shit, and when they realize they are, they want better, Chinese or not.

All the pro-status quo chinese I've met have come from wealthy families as well, that is to say a small fraction of the chinese population, who benefits directly from the current regime.

If you've ever met members of the Falun Gong or supporters of the Republic of China (not the PRC) then you've seen part of the Chinese counterculture.


the problem is this 10 apples minus 10 apples equal zero apples.

Yeah, the earth does not have enough resources for everyone to live on it like we do, with the sheer amount of waste and pollution our lifestyle leaves in it's wake.. we could maintain our standard of living and drastically reduce consumption and pollution, but our culture is very slow in changing, and China sees our standard of living and naturally wants it too.

 

[GOD]

I dont like the death sentance in China , do you like the death sentance in America . Whats the difference ?

What facts do you know about china , and did you get them from the American controled press ? Were you there ? Or is it hearsay ? Are you sure what you read isnt propoganda ? What atitude dont you like ? Are you one of those sick mode protesters that follow the perverse western pro tibet propoganda and the terrorists that the Americans are trying to mobilise to protest against China . Are you one of the people who use sport politicaly ? Are you taking part in the American trade war against China ? The war the Americans started because the rest of the world has started to realise who they are and how disshonest they are and are turning their backs on them ? Why arent all those middle class professional protesters protesting for freedom for Basqueland , Catalonia , Northern Irland , Wales , Scotland , Cornwall , The Chanel Islands , Gibralter , Ceuta , Melila . Why arent they protesting to give the whole American continent back to the indians and Australia to the Aboriginies . Why werent they protesting before ? Why now ? AS for Tibet , theres a basic law in life , use it or loose it , and another one is if you cant be bothered to take care of it and respect it or yourself its your own fault when things go down hill .

"ants. "

Like the ants in Africa and all over asia . I understand what you mean , its a shock walking around as the only European surounded by Africans , Chinese and other Asians . Arent you an ant for them ?

Did the Chinese attack Palastine , Iraq , Afghanistan ? Or bomb Somalia ? Are the Chinese behind the wars in the Lebanon ? Who has china commited war crimes against ? Why are the Chinese making deals that benefit both sides with lots of African countrys ? Why isnt the west doing that ? Look in the united nations at who votes for military intervention and then see how often the Chinese vote against it . Have the Chinese attacked more than 20 countrys since the second world war like America has ? Are the Chinese against Coca ? No they are trying to get it legalised and have already ordered more than the total coca crop per year in the whole of south America . Has China ever used nuclear bombs on inocent women , children and old people ? Could the chinese have stoped the holocaust like the Americans could have if it had been in their intersts. Is China responsible for the same amount of polution like the Americans ? Are the Chinese trying to take over the world ? Have they tried to get amonopoly on all the food crops in the world like monsanto is ?

Compare the laws in China to those in America . Theres not much difference in human rights , punishments or coruption .

The American government planed the ethnic cleaning in New Orleans , now black people are in the minority there and only one black group was allowed to take part in the madi-gras (speling ?) . At least 30,000 black people are still living in wooden huts and caravans and have now started to be evicted from them . Is the mess cleard up in New Orleans ? How long did it take the American government to send help to New Orleans ? How many days did the American president hide after Katrina ? Who controls the stock markets ? Who is to blame for the price of food in poor countrys because they speculate with food prices ? The same with the price of petrol all over the world ?

How long did it take the Chinese government to react to the recent erthquakes ? = straight away . What did the Chinese presedent do ? He was there trying to help and comfort within hours . How come the whole Chinese nation stood up and helped imediately ? How come they didnt stop looking for victims after 3 or 4 days like in America and Europe after catastrophies and kept digging for two weeks ..... and found people that were still alive ? Do all Americans stop when they murder people with cars .... remember kenedy and chapaquidik . Do corupt American buisness men or politicians get removed from office like they do in China when they get caught ?

The American government are comparable to the nazis , are the Chinese ?

"The "everything belongs to us" attitude, the disrespect for human beings in general, the disrespect for the environment and animals ("if we believe it is an aphrodisiac we don't care if we extinct the whole species"). "

And the Americans , and their slave colonys like Europe , Japan and Taiwan dont ? Do the Chinese do rendition , or send people to nazi countrys to torture them ? Have the Chinese got anything to do with Guantanamo bay or Abu graib ? Did they rape Africa and South America and abduct millions of slaves and build their whole wealth on it ? Did the Chinese force themselves to buy opium or was it the west ? Were the chinese behind all the death squads that terrorised the whole of South America for the last 50 years or more ? Did the chinese help pol pot into power ?

A friend of mine lives in china for the last 20 years and has never had any problems at all , even when he was caught smoking cannabis .

"yes, we can do that. In two days, yes, of course!" But they don't care about the contract they signed, all they do is hire their friends and relatives so they can have a share of your money. They don't give a fuck about you or the product."

Thats pure racism , are we or the Americans diferent ?

" but it seems they are all raised to be egoistic, disrespectful motherfuckers and feel good about it. "

Like us and the Americans and the master race commiting the holocaust and apathide in Palastine in gods name ? Why arent you saying racist things about them ?

" But when the problem seems to be a general attitude, an upbringing and education that turns the people into egocentric assholes (but who still blindly believe everything their leaders say) - then I can't only talk about the Chinese government, then it's "the Chinese" I'm talking about. "

Again racism . Are we or the Amis diferent ?

"China has a communist regime"

America and their European and Asian puppets + the zionists have ultra right wing fashist governments . Did the Chinese murder 6,000,000 jews ? Has your country got a better history than China ?

 

[tryptonaut]

Well, to be honest, I hate people in general. I just blame it on the Chinese right now ;)

Nah, seriously - let's assume the world is a group of friends. If one of the friends starts behaving like an asshole, can't the others tell him? The fact that parts of the western world are assholes themselves doesn't make the chinese government's behaviour any better, does it? And what I'm concerned about is that most Chinese are still very much in line with their government. You can say about America whatever you want, but in the end the people were raised to have a spine and stand for their own opinion. It doesn't always work too well, but at least that's the basis. What happened in Nazi Germany was that people at that time had never yet been tought to think of their own, they had always been used to blindly obey government - just like the Chinese today. This is, combined with a bad government, a very bad combination.
I don't say the Western world is immune to mind control and bad behaviour, but the situation in China it makes me shiver. Not because Chinese are bad people (they are just the same as everyone else), but because their set and setting (to speak in psychedelic terms) makes them more susceptible to a fascist regime.

 

[magickmumu]

A couple of months ago there was a man on TV who was specialized in Chinese culture.
He was on a morning show to tell about the Olympics and the Tibetan protest.
What this man told made me mad with rage.
He was against the anti Chinese/pro-Tibetan protests.
His opinion was that western protesters don't understand Chinese culture, and have no right to protest.

I have seen a movie of Chinese soldiers shooting unarmed Tibetan refugees from a distance.
I said WTF. You don't have to understand Chinese culture to say killing defenseless people is wrong.

 

[Meduzz]

let's assume the world is a group of friends.

LOL :lol:

But I get your point :wink:

 

[st.bot.32]

I have seen a movie of Chinese soldiers shooting unarmed Tibetan refugees from a distance.
I said WTF. You don't have to understand Chinese culture to say killing defenseless people is wrong.

Agreed, America is certainly not perfect, but neither is China. It is a nation with a very imperialistic history--forged through generations of war--not so unlike America in some respects I guess. I have friends who have been to tibet--there is not much left of the culture from 50 years ago, the younger generation have been brought up on state propaganda. Tibet is pretty much a lost cause.

Another example both nations have a weakness for black gold. The Chinese government is practically responsible for the crisis in Burma right now with their backing of the Junta, merely because they want their oil reserves. Meanwhile hundreds of thousands are starving, and outside nations cannot help because the Junta take the aid supplies for themselves, and China is opposed to intervention. China could end this situation overnight. However they will no doubt stand by and oppose aid, much like they did when the Burmese monks were being shot up last year.

 

[ZOF]

I think we should not interfere with China. The chinese culture has been on this planet for a much longer time then our dutch or american culture. We're very, very, very rude by 'helping china to develop'. What are we doing there? That's how they life...

 

[st.bot.32]

I think we should not interfere with China. The chinese culture has been on this planet for a much longer time then our dutch or american culture. We're very, very, very rude by 'helping china to develop'. What are we doing there? That's how they life...

I agree it is better not to interfere, to make peace where possible, but I would strongly disagree that they have been around longer. Our cultural and political philosophy and roots stem back thousands of years as well, through the period of the Roman and Greek empires.

And considering China is the result of many ethnic populations fighting, annihilating each other, burning libraries and rewriting their histories, eg the Qing/Manchu, the Cultural revolution etc, it is unfair to say their culture is thousands of years older than us, when it has been in constant transition (much like our culture).

"That's how they live." Try explaining that to a member of Falun Gong, or one of the millions of Tibetans displaced during the 1950's. Also when China interferes in the world stage eg Burma, Darfur etc, we have as much right to criticize terrible foreign policy as we would that of the US, both countries of which seem to support despots and tyrants whenever it suits their whims.

 

[BrainEater]

i think many people don't bring enough respect for the ancient chinese culture and the skills of their people. when i speak of culture also i mean civilisation and i agree that the chinese were a tribe of people that was historically seen "civilized" folks quite before other cultures...
though on the other hand i think many chinese are too rooted in their own culture, to step out of the context of it. i suppose that it's hard for them to do so because the family and the "family" is very important there. that's a problem, because many can't step out of the context, because they are forced to help their family and be part of the family.

peace.

 

[ZOF]

I aggree with that, st.bot.32


Anyways, the american culture that we know now, or the eurpean culture, is not older then a few hundred years i guess.... The chinese culture has been the same for thousands of years... Of course we've had rome and greece, i learned those 2 native languages in school. Anyways, since then a lot has changed, the way we think and work for example. who here speaks latin every day and still thanks the roman gods for his food? Nobody i guess?

 

[st.bot.32]

i think many people don't bring enough respect for the ancient chinese culture and the skills of their people. when i speak of culture also i mean civilisation and i agree that the chinese were a tribe of people that was historically seen "civilized" folks quite before other cultures...

Yeah, to be clear, I love the ancient culture, the art, the poetry, the love of life, the martial arts and philosophy, the music (and some really advanced musical ideas that predate our Western culture by hundreds of years such as development of musical temperments etc), the awareness of the body, those are the great things I want to be reminded of when I think of the Chinese culture..

Perhaps just a reminder of what a destructive force government, and power-seeking in general can be, and how out of touch it is with what the average person wants and needs in life..

 

[st.bot.32]

I aggree with that, st.bot.32


Anyways, the american culture that we know now, or the eurpean culture, is not older then a few hundred years i guess.... The chinese culture has been the same for thousands of years... Of course we've had rome and greece, i learned those 2 native languages in school. Anyways, since then a lot has changed, the way we think and work for example. who here speaks latin every day and still thanks the roman gods for his food? Nobody i guess?

Our European culture came directly from Roman expansion and the resulting Holy Roman Empire. Our culture stems directly from ancient Greece. This is the roots of western civilization, from which we all at least partially descend (unless you are a north american Native or indiginous aboriginal! Or if you are Jewish, you would travel to the middle east to see your culture and thousands of years of history). Our government, our philosophy, medicine, science, art, literature, theatre, musical system all stem from ancient Greece.

China is an ancient place, but Chinese culture is not the same as it was thousands of years ago. At many times China has been fractured into several countries/warring states. The ethnicity of the country altered completely with warring dynasties and the triumphant Qin and Han dynasties. The religions and philosophies have changed as well (Buddhism, Confucianism, the eradication of Confucianism by the Reds, etc). You could say that Han Chinese culture (as if there is only one culture in a land with hundreds of dialects and a billion people) dates back thousands of years I suppose, but it has certainly changed with time.

As for the language, ancient Chinese is only the roots of modern Mandarin (there are hundreds and hundreds of dialects, practically different languages of Chinese, like Shanghai-nese), much as Latin is the roots of most European langauges which use the same characters and quite similar grammar. It is all in the same family.

Maybe some Chinese can trace their ancestors back 5-6000 years in the same village. I saw a show recently where people in some small town in England traced their ancestors back 6000 years through DNA testing. The point being, I think it is really unfair to judge who is older than who. The age of a culture doesn't give a government (which does not represent--it abandoned and destroyed a lot of the culture anyway) a free pass. If the issue is only about respecting and having an interest and maybe even a love affair with ancient Chinese culture, that I would agree to that wholeheartedly.

 

[ZOF]

Aggree, you're right...

 

[st.bot.32]

Aggree, you're right...

And i totally agree about interference, eg when China for example criticizes some aspect of our culture, we tend to react fairly negatively as well :D