What is meaning of war against magic mushrooms in Amsterdam

[Caduceus Mercurius]

So now you have told us what your definition of soul is and that you dont believe such a soul exists . Maybe your definition was wrong .

I've defined it to be specific and avoid confusion. Because if you say soul refers to a type of music, sure, I'll agree it exists.

 

[Icelus]

Zezt: You know this video is made (as far as i know) by members of the scientology church?

There are a lot of things going wrong in psychiatry.. but the anti-psychiatry movement is the other extreme. I like the middle way.

I'll watch this video when i have more free time (a few weeks)..

I want to add something to this post. I'm really not in favor of using daily drugs to "treat" psychological problems. In that sense i don't like the middle way. I think in a lot of ways it IS a sick pseudo-science. But I don't think it's all black or white.

And i'm not really sure if this video is made by scientology, but it is propagated a lot by them.. Be sure where those things you read/watch are coming from!

I know a few examples of people who went psychotic, were prescribed an anti-psychotic for just a few weeks and after that were very happy they took them. But i'm sure in most cases there are better ways to treat those problems!

 

[HeartCore]

For me soul means feeling. For example all the music, and dance, and other creative forms of expression HAS to have soul. It has to have feeling, and this feeling communicates when it has soul

There only is one soul in my experience and we are all it.

 

[zezt]

It's all very complex in that, if you see what we are in is a kind of matrix, then you have to see the connection that uphold the matrix.

it is like a child in school. From hir vantage point it can seem incredibly complex, and bring on great distress--if school is hated (i speak for experience)--because 'school' is the 'reality'. You know other kids HAVE to go, and your parents or parent demand you go, or if not they can get jail if you dont go. But you dont feel right with it, but cannot imagine not-that, because it seems like it is the reality

But from a different vantage point, when you get out, get info about connections, who owns the schools, what they do, what is is for and so on, then you are seeing the connections and it makes more sense

Like school, so the matrix. Cause school is a big piece of the matrix isn't it? it's designed to make you not think, and destroy creativity. That is its purpose, and you find this out when you look into it OUT of school, cause they aint going to tell you!

All we have been told about soul comes from religious institutions west and east.

Mauybe they have bits that are true, but spin a lot more to fit you into the matrix. For example the Christian heaven and Hell trip. That was the myth that depending on how good or bad you are you will go to heaven or Hell respectively, for EVER!!
Does that myth mean there isn't nonordeinary experiences of eaither....l?

Well, we know there can be hells on earth right? I mean how would you feel about life in a concentration camp, or being a survivor of Hiroshima where you saw horror and are burned horribly, etc? Hell!

So are there imagined hells. I am sure you know there can be with psychedelic experience. Ie., you can see and feel hellish scene, both outer and inner, as well as heavenly, true?

Have you heard of NDEs when people have been basically physically 'dead' yet experience? And these experiences can be heavenly or hellish and inbetween.

So, hmmmm, is that a hint what could happen if really dead, and no chance of coming 'back' to body' How do we KNOW? You cannot answer this. Cause noone has come back from actual post mortem death. Though have from as near to death as you can get. And this brings to the table 'what is consciousness'? Noone knows that neither! So anything's possible.

So if this were so, that there's a coninuance of awarenss/soul post death does this mean that Eastern belief in transmigration of souls and karma is true?

To answer that I would have to say how much I disagree with how this believe is put into actual practice in eg, India. For there you have the worst poverty, and caste system. So that IDEA/THEORY?MYTH causes terrible injustice for millions of people considered with bad karma. So I dont agree with that crap at all.

But does that mean that if say I am a serial killer, and/or WBush, that when he dies he doesn't have to face what he has been a part of? Ie., IF we here reports of people who have had NDEs and meet beings and they have to review their lives, and the minutest details of their relationships with others are seen, including feeling what another felt when you did harm to them. And when we hear of psychedelic reports aka Grof etc of similar experience, which also includes the subtlest events that have shaped our lives, and may have causeed us untold harm to our soul. Are you then going to assume that the Great Death holds no mystery? That to me seems odd reasoning, and is quite blindly cocksure. Because as with a daimonic experience that defies all your notions about what reality 'is' so it must be with death. We cannot know. It is beyond our ken. I expect people experienced with psychedelics to dig this. the very fact that our sense of 'you' can disappear with one tiny tiny little pill.....?

Regarding the Shrink history documentary, and charges it is Scientology propaganda. That is really prepostrous. Dont let that blind you to what you experience when viewing the video.

I can tell you for sure. I am not a Scientologist, and I hate and loathe Scientology. it is a very oppressive cult. And I am not happy about some promininent people who expose psychiatric history abuse, past and present, collaborating with them. But I still respect them, and what they have exposed.

So as the term 'conspiracy theorist' is meant you to stop looking at the truth, so it appears is the term 'Scientologist'. But SEE that codu and what they have done. Did the Scientologists make Benjamin Rush, hailed as the Father of Psychiatry, believe and claim that black people were black because they had a form of leprosy? No, it was complete utter ignorance, and even more than that. Conniving conspiracy to keep black people in their 'place'.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

There only is one soul in my experience and we are all it.

Yes. It's as simple as that.

Well, we know there can be hells on earth right? I mean how would you feel about life in a concentration camp, or being a survivor of Hiroshima where you saw horror and are burned horribly, etc? Hell!

Hell is supposed to be eternal, just like heaven, the soul and God.

Have you heard of NDEs when people have been basically physically 'dead' yet experience? And these experiences can be heavenly or hellish and inbetween.

I know, but these states are still experienced and remembered by the body. Even when the heart stops beating, the brain continues to pulsate, which translates into a certain 'experience', which will then be remembered by the person 'brought back to life' (=heartbeat and/or breathing continuing as they should). Near death experiences are no proof of any possible 'after death experience', nor do they even suggest there would be such a realm. When you hyperventilate you can have a mystical experience, when you faint you can have a mystical experience, when part of your brain stops functioning, when you ingest entheogens or disassociatives, when you deprive your senses of stimulation, whatever unusual happens to your brain will generate an unusual experience, but it's all still happening connected with a body.

So, hmmmm, is that a hint what could happen if really dead

No. It only hints to what might happen during the transition phase, from being alive to the nervous system slowly dying completely. But once the brain is completely dead, you won't remember any of it. You will no longer exist, because the processes of your body have come to a halt. Without those processes, no consciousness.

For there you have the worst poverty, and caste system.

You can't blame the concept or interpretation of karma for that.

IF we here reports of people who have had NDEs and meet beings and they have to review their lives, and the minutest details of their relationships with others are seen, including feeling what another felt when you did harm to them.

That has happened to some in nonordinary states, but does not necessarily happen to everyone. One's experience of death could vary with the nature of one's death (slow versus fast, through injury or suffocation etc.) rather than the wickedness of one's life.

Are you then going to assume that the Great Death holds no mystery?

It's a great mystery for the ego.

I expect people experienced with psychedelics to dig this.

People experienced with psychedelics dig all kinds of things. There are many ways to perceive reality. Psychedelics don't make all of us think and act alike. It may turn one into a Buddhist and another into a Sufi, one into a vegan and another into a gourmet chef.

 

[GOD]

"HeartCore wrote:There only is one soul in my experience and we are all it.

Yes. It's as simple as that. "

Please explain , you defined what you think soul is and said you dont believe it exists .

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

"HeartCore wrote:There only is one soul in my experience and we are all it.

Yes. It's as simple as that. "

Please explain , you defined what you think soul is and said you dont believe it exists .

Heartcore writes there is only one soul. I believe the same. That one soul is the universe as a whole, in the now. We are all manifestations of that one soul, that unlimited collective of conscious beings, all reproducing ourselves constantly, to continue providing venues for that one soul to experience the present in all its manifestations.

That one multisensory being doesn't die when any individual dies, for unlimited new eyes, noses and taste buds are formed constantly, as are stars and planets.

 

[GOD]

Good . I wasnt sure if you were just confused again or if you ment that .

 

[zezt]

"HeartCore wrote:There only is one soul in my experience and we are all it.

Yes. It's as simple as that. "

Please explain , you defined what you think soul is and said you dont believe it exists .

Heartcore writes there is only one soul. I believe the same. That one soul is the universe as a whole, in the now. We are all manifestations of that one soul, that unlimited collective of conscious beings, all reproducing ourselves constantly, to continue providing venues for that one soul to experience the present in all its manifestations.

That one multisensory being doesn't die when any individual dies, for unlimited new eyes, noses and taste buds are formed constantly, as are stars and planets.

ahaaaaa, I understand you now. You may have assumed I meant separate souls? Which is a very Christian idea

No way do I mean that, and come more from an indigenous understanding of 'soul' which is NOT divided from the actual events of nature, the wind, rain, the flight of birds etc

But the shrinks and psychologists in that video also mean that when they say there is no soul, because they believe matter is dead and that we are mere chemical interactions:

Leipzig University, 1879—Professor Wilhelm Wundt, claims that man’s sensations thoughts and personality are nothing more than chemical reactions in the brain
He created a new idea of man being like an animal ‘without a soul’. To be trained like an animal "

And that sounded uncomfortably like what you said in an eariler post.

So you could say to him, and many mechanistic scientists, shrinks, psychologists etc that you had a very 'spiritual' 'meaningful', 'soulful' psychedelic experience, where you became ecstatically interelated with the land...etc and they would look at that kind of talk with contempt and 'know' that you had merely had a chemical delusiory experience that only seems meaningful to you in your deluded 'psychotic' state.

And they will do same to people who have 'schizophrenia'. They see it is defect in the biological-machine which needs drugs to bring it under control.

(About Karma doctrine) Why do you assume that karmic doctrine has not caused the social structure of the caste system? They believe that those who are sudras are playing out their karma.

(About NDEs) "I know, but these states are still experienced and remembered by the body. Even when the heart stops beating, the brain continues to pulsate, which translates into a certain 'experience', which will then be remembered by the person 'brought back to life' (=heartbeat and/or breathing continuing as they should). Near death experiences are no proof of any possible 'after death experience', nor do they even suggest there would be such a realm. When you hyperventilate you can have a mystical experience, when you faint you can have a mystical experience, when part of your brain stops functioning, when you ingest entheogens or disassociatives, when you deprive your senses of stimulation, whatever unusual happens to your brain will generate an unusual experience, but it's all still happening connected with a body. "
I dont want to inundate you with videos Already, the series I have linked you to about Psychiatric history is enough for now. But I also have one about NDE research and experience which I feel is real good. And will like you to see it later. See what you think.

There's one very interesting case where this woman had to be almost frozen for surgery to able to be performed on her brain. No 'pulsation'. And you will hear surgeons say it was closest state to actual death of the organism they know, and yet she had NDE!
So it may not be all so conclusive as you may think?



What is individual soul what is world soul?

How do we 'think'?

Do we usually think in a linear way? When you see these shrinks etc in that doc. you see men who think themselves extremely intelligent and superior, especially to some other 'races'. But they are thinking in such limited linear one-at-a-time ways. Not like nature at all.

 

[druglessdouglas]

man is no different from any other animal. remember that and you will realise divinity

 

[Brugmansia]

There only is one soul in my experience and we are all it.

I agree with that. But I don't agree with it as valid weapon to defend our position. Since we'll become just another coin of the already big known pile.

The question should be how to defend our values effectively in the future rather than aiming and pointing our finger on certain information.

Governments are occasionally applying tactics and structures to cover their will into a forthcoming law and are certainly aware of what the opposite parties are coming with.

The three day wait was a good proposal, but there was still space for an argument that incidents would just happen, just 3 days later.

Another input could have been that smartshop holders should have a conversation with the potential buyer to judge whether someone is qualified or not to use mushrooms. A face to face conversation for about 15 minutes both around the table with questions about background, motive, knowledge, self knowledge, potential location of use etc.

If someone is making objection for privacy, one is possibility not qualified for the use. Because mushrooms are doing the same. And if customers are not willing to wait for pre-customers, they're simply not truly realising what shrooms are.

And in the end a paper where the customer needs to sign for their answers, that the conversation has taken place, and that he should ingest the shrooms under similar conditions which he told and that he's buying a responsibility. Through this way, we also make people aware of inner spiritually. With all the pre bits and bytes, they'll also notice that it's much more than just a substance, the message will spread itself. It'd have had more the status of a religion and service for the mind. It would have been totally another judicial case.

Smartshop are then selling an extention of life package from where the activation key is just an addition. If a government then chooses to cut into that extention of life we can literally talk about oppression.

Self-called paragnosts, instations through phonelines are allowed to sell a service for the mind, bullcrap for abnormal prices to people who're mentally unstable. But a service for the mind, and therefore, legal.

It was more or less a battle between whether a goody should stay legal or not. And the easy mushroom sell of many smartshop owners seemed to have contributed to shrooms being a goody.

'First time?' ''No, experienced' 'Alright, tell me which box you want'.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Yes, perhaps once the Amsterdam mayor made that suggestion for the three day waiting period, all smart shops should have instituted it immediately. In retrospect they would have had a year to try it out before they were finally banned. Too bad it was never tried, they could have made a point that way.

 

[Brugmansia]

But the government is not taking any action against paragnosts who indoctrinate mentally unstable people.

 

[zezt]

The thing is, is that some of us have never had as much access to information via the Web.
This means that you can find out the history of persecution of peoples who had entheogens as their sacred sacramanents by the Chritians etc

You can see the oppression now pressure to take pharmaceutical drugs if you even dare claim you are finding it hard to cope with the oppressive matrix we are all forced to put up with.

But the controllers are not stupid. Thay are deeply, but what I mean is that they are coldly calculating and have mastered ways of mindcontrol and manipulation. And they infiltrate potential movements that could uncover what they are about.

Hence, notice how if people begin to share with the wider community about their plans for a New World Order, and their false flags to bring this about, like 9/11, they get called 'conspiracy theorist'. This is calculated by the very same to quell serious investigation, because then some people are programmed to sneer , and feel shamed to be called a CT. Job done!

Then with the exposure of the gov./big-pharma/psychiatric matrix, Scientology (which is virtually same as Illuminati) has infiltrated the antipsychiatry movement!!
Now what I have just said is, I believe quite cutting edge. As of this moment, I haven't researched if anyone else is on this. I know that one of the most prominent people who greatly brought the public to the attention of this major corruption was Dr Thomas Szasz with the publication of his book The Myth of Mental illness released in early 1960s. But he has allowed Scientology's collaboration under the principle of 'The enemy of my enemies are my friends'. Well, what IF the enemy of your friends IS the enemy in another guise??!

Not only Szasz, but also Dr Fred Baughman , who specializes in revealing how the major mental illness myth targets millions of children with having 'ADHD' etc, and also psychologist, Dr John Breeding who looks at Szasz as a mentor, and also exposes mental illness myth. All these people at the forefront of antipsychiatry , whilst not being Scientologists themselves, are yet allowing Scientology to be part of their cause, and will justify their input. Why would this be so?

Well, like I said, I feel on cutting edge with this, because I am dead against Scientology, and yet also very much for anti-psychiatry. So I have to delve into why these intelligent men who have uncovered this unprecedented corruption should fall for the Illuminati front of the Scientology cult?

It could be compartmentalization which I have warned about above! That no matter how seemingly all-pervasive a subject of research maybe, there are other connections needed to be made aware of. From my dealings with these learned men, I am guessing that they are not much up on what the New World Order is all about for example! Whereas I am. So I would be savvy to the fact that the larger enemy, the globalists, are infamous for 'joining' their opposition so as to manipulate it to their advantage, via disinformation, and ridiculing it, and so on.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

But a LOT of disinformation is created and propagated by sincerely deluded people, not just by the NWO.

 

[zezt]

But a LOT of disinformation is created and propagated by sincerely deluded people, not just by the NWO.

Of course it is, but i am focussing on the NWO and its hand, Scientology?