What do we do?

[IJesusChrist]

... so with all this talk lately about the NWO and the likes, I need to ask;

What do we do?



edit by Banana: I was so free as to make a new topic out of this post, which was originally in the israel thread, since it deserves to be a topic on its own. Hope you don't mind IJC

 

[spice]

Well we have to begin somewhere.


The REAL and true Achilles heel of them all is.........



Our use of Banks and the Credit System......this is HOW they create money out of thin air, and this is WHY we will have so much trouble eradicating them. They are the only ones that get to do this, the rest of us must make value-to-value transactions; we have to give something to get something.

You have to understand that THIS is what Jefferson and those guys were on guard against and that this IS all a case of history repeating itself.....so a first step is to begin weaning yourself from banks and quit using credit.


(I've not had a credit card in over ten years if I can't buy it outright fuck it, I am living beyond my means to want it)


It's really quite simple but the answer has been conditioned out of us by the system that we trust so much.


A system which HAS lied, which HAS killed and which is NOT transparent and NOT 'good' by any perverted stretch of imagination. Remember, convenience and comfort does not equate to good.


You have to begin pushing those fuckers back, out of your world, they're just like the mythical vampires; they cannot cross your threshold except by invitation only


Becoming aware of the many ways in which we are tied to them allows us to move to the stage of questioning whether we want these ties.....but they do not care whether we want them or not, this is why they have insinuated themselves at the top.

For instance.....the very concept of 'the Federal Reserve' is a motherfucking lie.


There IS NO FEDERAL RESERVE that is the code name for 'international banking'.


We've not been on a gold standard in nearly a hundred years..... (Gaddafi wants to revert to it, can you make a real small connection?) since gold was the original money, and paper money used to be issued in whats called 'bearer certificates' where the face value of the bill was redeemable, on demand, in the precious metal of your choice, gold or silver (usually gold).......what we have now are 'Federal Reserve Notes' which will get you.........

ARRESTED if you go to the bank demanding your gold.


It is an insult to my intelligence that we have been conditioned into this swindle, it goes against everything decent that we have been taught about 'value' 'commodity' and 'trade', yet they have pulled off the scam of the millenium in convincing us that we don't need our money to be worth anything....other than the promises of hidden old decrepit warhawks creating money off of the slavery of others.


When you use credit.....you ARE a slave whether you understand this or not, whether you like it or not, It's better to them if you don't fully grasp the nuances.


So.....it becomes a bit easier to understand when you consider that the source of much of this crap was the Industrial Revolution, when Western Civ fell in love with the machine, and THAT meant that we had to fall in love with what the machines run on which is OIL.

(as a side note, did you know that the oil companies learned long ago that oil wasnt created by fossils.....its created by heat and compression of vast amounts of land grown biomass, which got shoved under the earth when the tectonics shifted and entire continents went under oceans)

Oil is produced via a 'proprietary process' (that means some fucking man thinks he owns the intellectual understanding that the process is based on, what fucking rubbish) so are machines.....so are computers....cars, etc

My point with this is that I wish to illustrate a circumvention of linear thinking by those who are exploiting us.


They have to have us need them. In fact they need us utterly and completely and we need them not at all,

(it's a lot like a dysfunctional relationship between a man and a woman where one has destroyed the self-esteem of the other by undermining them at every chance until the person actually believes the abusive mate is essential and indispensable)

other than for things we have been CONDITIONED to believe are essential such as credit cards and banks.



All we have to do is wake up to one of historys lessons.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Completely and utterly agree.

Interest itself is an invention of evil and greed. The creation of money from money. The idea that occupations can create their own money from other's debts is an idea that should not have lasted more than a year, but it did, and now we can see the implications - our fucking entire government is going to be unable to function.

The idea of COMPOUNDED interest is so fucking vile and disastrous that I cannot even bare to think about the many accountants who punch the numbers in, day by day, while sucking the "value" of families away, which with all due respect to them, they deserve for being so naive.

Both my parents have seen the ugly face of debts from interest and I never hope to go there.

But I truly agree, the first, and one of the most powerful steps against the people with money is to buy at face value. Tit for tat. Not I'll buy this now and pay it off over the course of my life time - it'll be fine!

However, having said that - I can now never purchase a house. I will have to rent for my the rest of my life. OR~!

Buy a micro house

 

[Sticki]

The financial collapse would be nice but you have not addressd the key issue, What do we do?

The only thing I can suggest to anyone is, be self-sufficient and learn to survive.
Everything from what is edible and how to trap, To how to build shelter and understanding herbs.
You have a brain, Use it.

The world we live in is fake, Money to Technology it's not real.
We cannot identify with our true nature through it, Hence we must reject it.

 

[ararat]

I agree with all of you, spot on.


what I don't agree with is the notion that there are people steering all of this - puppetmasters. this would give too much credit to the human (un-)ability to control complex systems. we are puppets without a puppetmaster, dancing how these idea-matrices are telling us to; ideas that say that money has inherent value, that the economy has to grow perpetually (every child can see that this is silly), that money is an end in itself. it's completely idiotic and destroying our planet, relationships and everything else it comes in touch with.

I've been playing a lot with the thought of becoming self-sufficient, but I think it is of little value to drop out while rome is burning. this is not to say that self-sufficiency isn't good, it's still a dream of mine, but I doubt its use. few people are willing to go back to growing their own food, to completely rely on themselves. our relationship to money and economy ought to undergo a transformation to something that serves and connects us, as it was meant in the beginning, not something that enslaves and separates us like right now.

the first step that I'm certain is paramount to bring about change is to learn about all of these matters, what money is, how it works, why things are the way they are, to examine your beliefs and relationship to money. the next step however,... I don't know. certainly anger and revolutions won't do us much good, as any revolution showed.
maybe I'm smarter in a few days, I started reading a book on exactly that topic that blows my mind right now. I don't like advertising stuff on here, but I can recommend "Sacred Economics" by Charles Eisenstein to all of you. there are some excerpts on Reality Sandwich

 

[Sticki]

I agree with all of you, spot on.

what I don't agree with is the notion that there are people steering all of this - puppetmasters

Who said people are steering this???

I think we need to look further then this, The Demonic Archetype maybe?
Face it we have watched puppets come and go and in most cases in not very good ways. The Demonic Acrhetype is fitting for such actions. The impersonal use of people like the builder and the hammer, He uses it when he needs it and drops it when he does not. Fitting for the likes of Saddam, Osama, Hitler to name a few...

Whether its the work of an entity (Good or Bad) or the collective conscience of a hand full of like minded people carried on through ritual and teachings, It seems something is truelly taking place in the world no matter how hard we wish to ignore it.

 

[spice]

Becoming self-sufficient is the key to being able to free yourself from banks and the money culture in general. Being able to live off the land (and being willing to) is what really can give one their birthright back, by enabling a true freedom, more than our so-called advanced western civilization is capable of delivering


banana says:"
what I don't agree with is the notion that there are people steering all of this - puppetmasters. this would give too much credit to the human (un-)ability to control complex systems. we are puppets without a puppetmaster, dancing how these idea-matrices are telling us to; ideas that say that money has inherent value, that the economy has to grow perpetually (every child can see that this is silly), that money is an end in itself. it's completely idiotic and destroying our planet, relationships and everything else it comes in touch with.


my friend, I beg to differ....The very existence and proliferation of the credit-bank system in the world proves you wrong.

if what you say is true we should all be able to cast these foolish ideas aside as soon as we recognize their stupidity, yet we cannot

Why Not?

Because we have a group of super-alpha males (international bankers) who have perverted the natural order


When you have governments manufacturing reasons to fight wars then there is yet another example of orchestrated social manipulation, where entire nations are jerked around just like puppets. See Nazi Germany and my own country modern-day America as living examples.


People believing that 'this is just how it ended up' are one of their greatest assets in my mind, because you're ignoring many examples of the contrary, being optimistic is great but I do not think this is the area to practice optimism.



The real thing to do is to be the change you want to see in the world, and that's all you can do at the end of the day.


It's what I do, I want to see people use some critical thinking and demand that these idiots running things straighten the fuck up.

 

[ararat]

that self-sufficiency might not be the solution is a new thought that I've been entertaining for about one day, that is to say, I haven't made up my mind on self-sufficiency and the question of rulership yet, so I'm open to both versions on both accounts. one probably shouldn't make up one's mind anyway.


that you call them alpha-males gives away what I've been talking about - it's probably splitting hairs in some way or another -, these people are born into these roles, they are puppets themselves, we play the slaves, they play the kings in this drama. that is not to say that I think that they don't know how their actions influence the world. the real evil is the structure within all of this is happening, all the people, top or bottom are exchangeable.
it seems that we are on pretty much the same page though, what differs is the way we stay with this state of affairs.


since our economy and idea of money are based on perpetual growth, it is of no surprise that reasons to go to war are manufactured. what better way to make use of the resultant overproduction other than go to war, burn all the things and at the same time get some fuel for machines, which in turn stimulates the economy so that it may grow again.




>>The real thing to do is to be the change you want to see in the world, and that's all you can do at the end of the day.

Amen.

 

[IJesusChrist]

To be self sufficient is good, but to claim that it will cure all ails is a bit foolish and premature.

Firstly, and to make people mad, being self-sufficient is the ultimate conservative approach.

Secondly, you cast off others as you are the only need to yourself. This is true if you just need to survive, but to live and thrive, you need community and interaction. I do not see an apocalyptic type scenario in our near future, so I don't believe living like you have lost everything is good.

What I do believe is that this system is great in that it allows you to free yourself: Work for a year, buy solar panels, solar water heater, wind mill, and you have all the power you will ever need. Buy some seeds once and continue to plant them, or buy perennials. Collaborate with neighbors to create community gardens with more land and more efficiency. Ride-share or build-your-own electric bike/car and run off your power grid. An electric bike with 40 miles range costs less than 5 grand (new or DIY).

Go graffiti. Seriously. I will not argue with you that this is one of the most powerful tools of the individual. It is a true contestation of who is in power, constantly.

There is no person or group of people running the world. They simply ride the wave that the masses have created, and we fall for it. We are not under their control, however it can be viewed that way. But so can many other perspectives.

 

[spice]

I said self-sufficient, not Robinson Crusoe, don't put words in my mouth.

No one claimed it would cure all, I believe what was said was that it will allow one to gracefully witrhdraw from this sick culture.



Community and interaction are vastly over-rated if you are living in continual cognitive dissonance.


Your grafitti comment- I don't think so.

wearing baggy pants or driving a crappy car makes a bigger statement....


....and guys, I NEVER SAID that anyone was 'running' the world. You guys don't LISTEN.


I SAID that specific groups exert 'pinch-point' influence and control the big picture.


They don't need to micro-manage


Trty listening, then reading, THEN some critical judgement.



I have laid down the gauntlet on this site, the facts are there, and when some of you actually digest all the stuff I have written on this subject you WILL feel foolish later.


it's a promise

 

[ophiuchus]

bookmarking the reality sand witch links

 

[IJesusChrist]

I don't even have anything more to say to you spice - you've used me up.

reality sandwich is pretty good, though.

 

[IJesusChrist]

so you say, essentially, do nothing?

I say - do something. Look at 350.org and their support. Change.org and what they have done (although mostly meaningless in the grand scheme of things).

You're right that it was easier to change things back then - but to simply say "its too late" and essentially give in - isn't that a bit foolish?

Like spice's signature - Keep fighting the good fight.

I mean, I tell me friends daily to accept the heat, turn off your AC unit. When you leave your room shut off your lights and your computer. This isn't going to reach more than a few people immediately but hopefully I wear off on them, and they can spread it. You are 7 people away from anyone, as they say.

I'd say more but I don't want to incriminate myself :!:

 

[IJesusChrist]

53, old - get that shit out of here.

Societal crap. I know plenty of people who are in their 70's and even in their 80's who feel great, are active, and care.

fifty-three and you're about to give up on all motivation for the future generations. That's good. Thanks for contributing to the overall apathy. I'm sorry man but that is really lethargic. 53 is not old, no age is.

People tell you 53 is old so you start to believe it, you start to delve into the physical ailments, rather than the age of wisdom.

get out of here with that!

PS you sound exactly like my dad.

 

[ararat]

"Societies become great when its elders plant trees under which's shadow they won't be able to sit"

except for in this case you still might be able to sit under the said tree.

 

[spice]

Hmmmm

 

[spice]

53, old - get that shit out of here.

Societal crap. I know plenty of people who are in their 70's and even in their 80's who feel great, are active, and care.

fifty-three and you're about to give up on all motivation for the future generations. That's good. Thanks for contributing to the overall apathy. I'm sorry man but that is really lethargic. 53 is not old, no age is.

People tell you 53 is old so you start to believe it, you start to delve into the physical ailments, rather than the age of wisdom.

get out of here with that!

PS you sound exactly like my dad.

Did it occur to you that this is your future too?



Perhaps it's one of the many benefits of 'playing the game'



I assure you most of those older people are worried about things you are glossing over and aren't considering. I doubt many of them are exposing their opinions to the scrutiny of message boards and attempting to sway opinion by discussion with strangers who don't really want to be swayed.


sounds like altruism in action to me



You yourself say in this thread (within a few posts) that-


'America is a fine place, the conveniences outrweigh the negatives'


'I'm leaving this sinking ship for Costa Rica' (I actually know someone in government in Costa Rica. Your answer shows an ignorance of reality. Costa Rica is ran by Americans, compadre. Care to borrow my crystal ball?)


That's called inconsistency, and it is what happens when you have not fully thought out your position. MOST of the times, it comes from reasoning via emotion, which is something you are very prone to do when I begin attacking what seems to be sacred cows such as the institution of 'america'


Get consistent.

 

[ararat]

I care little for proof for my flowery words since I'm not much of sciency type of guy, however, I think the logic is sound, isn't it?

that it is the younger generation that will have to do something is obvious. but it doesn't make it easier if there is an old grumpy generation that brags that it won't help anyway. I'm not ready to give in to this and adopt a defeatist attitude. the heart tells me that a more beautiful world is possible, just the mind has fits of "It won't help anyway". my experience in life tells me that it is safe to dismiss the mind every now and then.

the only titanic here is the financial system and money, which both are eating themselves right now. once they break down something better can take its place, something that hasn't just come to be this way, but something that some conscious thought has been taken into. why not base the value of money on something that is really valuable?, like unspoiled nature, intact ecosystems, gold still in the ground? everything that money backs its value on will be pursued, gold will be dug out from the ground to put it into other places in the ground, economic growth will be enforced until its bitter end, imagine to turn these forces to create a more beautiful world. opinions may divide on what is beautiful, but I think that community and pristine nature are commonly revered.


"Real change rarely comes in the absence of crisis."

 

[IJesusChrist]

1. Spice - I've made myself perfectly clear. The united states is a dandy place if you work within the system. I have more ups than downs in here. However, I do not agree with their political system, their banking and borrowing, or the general philosophies "american dream". I am much more for nature, and would like to have a few trees next to where I live and work - so I'm getting the hell out of here. All places have their ups and downs, America is one of what they call "the standard of living". I'm not willing to argue this point anymore.

2. Aemilius. Open your eyes; James Lovelock, Buckminster Fuller, Ghandi, countless numbers of professors who continue to educate, enlighten, and inspire ( I know a few ), countless numbers of people who still voice their opinions, stricken with emotion and bias, but none-the-less powerful.

But its up to you to classify, label, and categorize yourself as "old", you are correct. I hope that works for you!

 

[IJesusChrist]

I'm really irritable at the moment and am going to refrain from hate posts;

but I have one simple question, Aemilius, Spice:

It is perfectly legal and easy to leave the country. Why are you still here?