Some discussion about American foreign policy...

[magickmumu]

Thanx caducues I wanted to say the same. But I didn't want to go to the trouble of writing down all the info.

 

[magickmumu]

. Like it or not, the USA is founded on Christian principles.

Another lie.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I have friends of every stripe and color. I just wouldn't put someone who even has a slim chance of being a Muslim operative in there.

Yeah, you´ll surely have friends in every stripe and color, because there are Christians in every stripe and color. I think it´s fine talking about the problems caused by the Islam, but the religion of this particular person is really irrelevant. Even the president can be a Muslim! Or a Christian!
The solution here is not to complain about what a person in a certain position believes and adheres to, but to do something about the religions themselves. You can do absolutely nothing against the Muslim invasion unless you renounce your own religion first. Christians, Jews and Muslims, especially children and teenagers, should try to understand why these religions can be renounced without having to fear the wrath of God, and try to liberate others from the clutches of dogma and blind faith.

 

[magickmumu]

Please, he's not a terrorist, thats outrageously hilarious for you to even mention. Quit watching the O'Reilly factor!

Obama sounds like Osama. He's a terrorist. Stop being ignorant. :wink:

 

[Guest]

I have friends of every stripe and color. I just wouldn't put someone who even has a slim chance of being a Muslim operative in there.

Yeah, you´ll surely have friends in every stripe and color, because there are Christians in every stripe and color. I think it´s fine talking about the problems caused by the Islam, but the religion of this particular person is really irrelevant. Even the president can be a Muslim! Or a Christian!
The solution here is not to complain about what a person in a certain position believes and adheres to, but to do something about the religions themselves. You can do absolutely nothing against the Muslim invasion unless you renounce your own religion first. Christians, Jews and Muslims, especially children and teenagers, should try to understand why these religions can be renounced without having to fear the wrath of God, and try to liberate others from the clutches of dogma and blind faith.

Interesting. ALL other religions seek to love one another through God. Except the Muslims. They want complete submission to thier religion, or you should be killed in the name of thier god. That includes people who don't believe in any god.
Call me what you will, but in a nation of 300 million, I think we could find someone more qualified and without the even remotest possibility that someone without our countrys' best interest at stake could easily be found. Something's not right with that man. Follow the money. Disqualify him and move on. It should be no big deal.

 

[Guest]

Like it or not, the USA is founded on Christian principles.

No, that's not true. Where did you get that from?
The USA is founded on Masonic and Deistic principles. Whatever theistic or Christian themes you can find in American anthems, pledges, currency etc. are all later additions.

"Christians have been led to believe that the government of the United States of America is based on the basic principles of Christian morality, which have their origin in the Scriptures. Historical evidence militates against the view that those who formulated the fundamental documents of American government were Christians. To the contrary, not a few who wrote and signed the Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation and the U. S. Constitution were Deists, Theists and Freemasons. Webster's Dictionary defines "theism" and "deism":

Theism - "belief in the existence of a god or gods; specif: belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of man and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world."

Deism - "a movement or system of thought advocating natural religions based on human reason rather than revelation, emphasizing morality, and in the 18th century denying the interference of the Creator with the laws of the universe."

One recent historical account of Freemasonry, THE TEMPLE & THE LODGE, boasts instead of the profound influence of Freemasonry on the founding documents:

"Of the fifty-six signatories of the Declaration of Independence, only nine can definitely be identified as Freemasons, while ten others may possibly have been. Of the general officers in the Continental Army, there were so far as documentation can establish, thirty-three Freemasons out of seventy-four. Granted the known Freemasons were, as a rule, more prominent, more instrumental in shaping the course of events than their unaffiliated colleagues...

"On 11 June, (the Continental) Congress appointed a committee to draft a declaration of independence. Of the five men on this committee, two - Franklin and...Robert Livingston - were Freemasons, and one, Robert Sherman, is believed, though not confirmed, to have been. The other two, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams - were not, despite subsequent claims to the contrary. The text of the declaration was composed by Jefferson. It was submitted to Congress and accepted on 4 July 1776. The nine signatories who can now be established as proven Freemasons, and the ten who were possibly so, included such influential figures as Washington, Franklin and, of course, the president of the Congress, John Hancock. The army, moreover, remained almost entirely in Freemasonic hands...As we shall see, it is in the Constitution that the influence of Freemasonry is most discernible...

"At last, on 25 May 1787, the Constitutional Convention opened in Philadelphia and commenced its efforts to devise the machinery of government for the new nation. The first voice to make itself heard in any significantly influential way was a characteristically Freemasonic one, that of Edmund Randolph.. Randolph...a member of a Williamsburg lodge, had become Washington's aide-de-camp. Subsequently he was to become Attorney-General, then governor of Virginia and Grand Master of Virginia's Grand Lodge. During Washington's presidency, he was to serve as the first Attorney-General of the United States, then the first Secretary of State.

"...There were ultimately five dominant and guiding spirits behind the Constitution - Washington, Franklin, Randolph, Jefferson and John Adams. Of these, the first three were active Freemasons, but men who took their Freemasonry extremely seriously - men who subscribed fervently to its ideals, whose entire orientation had been shaped and conditioned by it. And Adam's position, though he himself is not known to have been a Freemason was virtually identical to theirs. When he became president, moreover, he appointed a prominent Freemason, John Marshall, as first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court." (1)

The Masonic Foundations of the US

More about the Masonic US Presidents and the signers of the Declaration of Independence: http://www.calodges.org/no406/FAMASONS.HTM

True. All of our buildings built in the 1700's in Washington D.C. have "God" carved in all the stonework everywhere, but it doesn't say which God. I believe it to be bible based, however.

 

[spice]

Why do you believe this?

 

[spice]

Also, on the subject of 'bible' based anything, the King James bible has been subject to numerous revisions over the centuries, man-made alterations that have pretty much obliterated all the original ideas behind the words.

You believe in a book riddled with half-truths, mis-statements, and outright innacuracies.

There is so much allegory and symbolism in there that a person can make it say whatever he wants it to say. You can justify anything with the bible.

Look at history.


More people have died in the name of religion than all the major wars combined.....what a legacy, man.

The problem, ellis, is that you people do not UNDERSTAND the difference between 'freedom of religion', and 'freedom to evangelize'.

You people are always trying to 'convert the heathen' and THIS is the entire SOURCE of the problem.

Keep your damn religion to yourself and this would be a * much * nicer place to live.

:idea:

 

[Guest]

'Ellis' won't be back.

His work is done here. We visit all sorts of websites to accumulate data that we are using to develop a new approach to data aquisition and disparity evaluation. It is modeled after England's FIND ( Facial Imaging National Database) No one is to worry, though. It is for our exclusive research and use.
We use syntax, phrasing, spelling, slang, and a host of other revealing individual traits to track and identify patterns, trends, and anamolies in the cyber-world. Ellis does this all day. (I believe he's an Obama supporter) Here is our website, and have a look. It will be highly enlightening.

http://www.mitosystems.com/

 

[druglessdouglas]

i believe you

 

[spice]

I don't.

 

[druglessdouglas]

im starting to feel sorry for him again

 

[Guest]

Thats why america is a setting sun .

...who's about to lose its first place an empire of the rising sun...

(sorry, couldn't resist)

 

[spice]

douglass- That youtube vid is hilariously appropriate.

I see that 'ellis' has deleted all of his posts on this topic.

He has picked up his marbles and went home.


Even if the above statement is true, so what?

I already knew, intuitively, that these types of information gathering campaigns were underway.....back in the 90's the FBI/NSA/CIA had developed several programs of this nature to accumulate data on an internet scale.

One of them was the infamous CARNIVORE program, which we were familiar with 'back in the day'

Here's the latest on that, which tends to confirm what the above poster wrote, in a general sense.

***********************************************************

FBI retires its Carnivore
Kevin Poulsen, SecurityFocus 2005-01-14

FBI surveillance experts have put their once-controversial Carnivore Internet surveillance tool out to pasture, preferring instead to use commercial products to eavesdrop on network traffic, according to documents released Friday.
Two reports to Congress obtained by the Washington-based Electronic Privacy Information Center under the Freedom of Information Act reveal that the FBI didn't use Carnivore, or its rebranded version "DCS-1000," at all during the 2002 and 2003 fiscal years. Instead, the bureau turned to unnamed commercially-available products to conduct Internet surveillance thirteen times in criminal investigations in that period.

Carnivore became a hot topic among civil libertarians, some network operators and many lawmakers in 2000, when an ISP's legal challenge brought the surveillance tool's existence to light. One controversy revolved around the FBI's legally-murky use of the device to obtain e-mail headers and other information without a wiretap warrant -- an issue Congress resolved by explicitly legalizing the practice in the 2001 USA PATRIOT Act.
Carnivore Logo


Under section 216 of the act, the FBI can conduct a limited form of Internet surveillance without first visiting a judge and establishing probable cause that the target has committed a crime. In such cases the FBI is authorized to capture routing information like e-mail addresses or IP addresses, but not the contents of the communications.

According to the released reports, the bureau used that power three times in 2002 and six times in 2003 in cases in which it brought its own Internet surveillance gear to the job. Each of those surveillance operations lasted sixty days or less, except for one investigation into alleged extortion, arson and "teaching of others how to make and use destructive devices" that ran over eight months from January 10th to August 26th, 2002.

Other cases investigated under section 216 involved alleged mail fraud, controlled substance sales, providing material support to terrorism, and making obscene or harassing telephone calls within the District of Columbia. The surveillance targets' names are not listed in the reports.

In four additional cases, twice each in 2002 and 2003, the FBI obtained a full-blown Internet wiretap warrant from a judge, permitting them to capture the contents of a target's Internet communications in real time. No more information on those cases is provided in the reports because they involved "sensitive investigations," according to the bureau.

The new documents only enumerate criminal investigations in which the FBI deployed a government-owned surveillance tool, not those in which an ISP used its own equipment to facilitate the spying. Cases involving foreign espionage or international terrorism are also omitted.

Developed by a contractor, Carnivore was a customizable packet sniffer that, in conjunction with other FBI tools, could capture e-mail messages, and reconstruct Web pages exactly as a surveillance target saw them while surfing the Web. FBI agents lugged it with them to ISPs that lacked their own spying capability.


hmmmmm

 

[Forkbender]

I've locked up this thread, nothing to argue about anymore...

If you want to say something open up a thread of your own.