Some discussion about American foreign policy...

[Guest]

I worked for the government once. I'll not reveal the specifics for obvious reasons, but there was more inefficiency than imaginable. And that union job, you have a good point. I was there FOR THE MONEY. I was young and NEEDED a job. I hated the work. Now I'm older and work at something I like doing, and let the money fall where it may. Because you spend an inordinate amount of time there, you'd better like what you're doing.

 

[spice]

Real nice, ellis....


Now, quit evading the question;


What is your position on the teaching of creationism in public achools?

 

[FluidDruid]

I've got a really good question.

What are you doing here Ellis. Your views conflict with everything this forum has to do with besides you claiming to use LSD. Stop riling people up and leave, this is the only thread you post in.

 

[spice]

I agree 100%

 

[FluidDruid]

I suggest you go to Sean Hannity's forum, I promise you it would be an orgasmic experience for you.

 

[magickmumu]

About Capitalism and free market.

In the Netherlands they started privatising, those sectors that used to be under government control.
Healthcare, electricity,, public transportation ect.
The government gave everything away, because they wanted more free market, and be like the US.

So a lot of company's turned private and money became more important then service.
The prices went up, while the terms of employment and the number of jobs at these company's went down along with service.
Our postal service was privatised and sold to an American company (tnt).
Now our postal service is SHIT!!!!

 

[Guest]

The US Tax System Described With Beer Analogy


Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. “Since you are all such good customers,

 

[spice]

Quit whining ellis.....that is a flawed analogy.


Many large corporations, when all is said and done, pay less than a middle class American.

People like John McCain and GW Bush coddle earth-fucking organizations like Exxon, giving them tax breaks and protectionist advantages,

I can see the argument of doing away with INCOME TAXES has merit, yes, since we are taxed elsewhere, I'll concede that.....but the thing about conservatives, as they exist in the here and now in America, is this;

They do not respect a lot of basic constitutional rights, especially ones regarding search and seizure, and personal privacy....and I would rather every bum in America get a new BMW than the government to erode one more inch of these rights.

It's not worth it, and for better or worse, it is the albatross hanging around the necks of modern conservatves, thanks to President Cheney, and VP Bush.

Corporations such as Blackwater and Halliburton enjoy more constitutional protections than I do sitting in my car at a red light in America.

You need to RECOGNIZE.


All of your arguments do is seek to preserve the status quo, ellis, and I say that the status quo sucks, needs changing, and that people like you, ostriches, yes, need to wake up.

 

[Guest]

Go Blackwater. Gettin' 'er done! :wink:

 

[spice]

You are hopeless.


I wouldn't think it's something to be proud of, but a goat-fucking redneck might;


rawstory.com — Former employee Jamie Leigh Jones is filing a federal lawsuit claiming she was gang-raped by employees of Halliburton in Iraq and held shipping container with a bed, then told she would be fired if she sought medical treatment

Blackwater Guards Fired at Fleeing Cars, Soldiers Say
First U.S. Troops on Scene Found No Evidence of Shooting by Iraqis; Incident Called ‘Criminal

“It appeared to me they were fleeing the scene when they were engaged. It had every indication of an excessive shooting,

 

[spice]

It's not enough that we invaded and still occupy Iraq, a country that posed no threat to us, in violation of the UN Security Council and international law.

It's not enough that the Bushies used lies to try to justify it:


- Weapons of mass destruction.

- Ties to 9/11.

- Yellowcake from Niger.

All false, but only to those of us who have bothered to check the facts against the White House spin.

It's not enough that we've lost over 3,800 U.S. troops in Iraq to date (and countless innocent Iraq men, women, and children), for Bush's illegal war of aggression. Blood for oil. And armor is for sissies.

It's not enough that those things took resources away from finding the real threat: Osama bin Laden

And it's not enough that all this has turned the world against us more and more each day. George W. Bush is Osama bin Laden's poster boy for the al-Qaeda recruiting program.

No, all that isn't enough.

Bush also has to protect his henchmen. So, even though the Blackwater contractors in Iraq have established a consistent pattern of brutality, blatantly and indiscriminately murdering civilians who are unfortunate enough to get in their way, that should be fine, according to the Bushies.


Yeah, ellis......you are a beacon of well reasoned argument.


Well, get the hanky out, you're about to have to deal with PRESIDENT OBAMA....


hahahahahahahahhahahahahhaa-haha

You lose.

 

[Guest]

George Bush has been in office for 7 1/2 years. The first six the economy was fine.
A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) the unemployment rate was 4.5%.
4) the DOW JONES hit a record high--14,000 +
5) American's were buying new cars, taking cruises, vacations overseas, living large!...

But American?s wanted 'CHANGE'! So, in 2006 they voted in a Democratic Congress and yes--we got 'CHANGE' all right.. In the PAST YEAR:
1) Consumer confidence has plummeted ;
2) Gasoline is now over $4 a gallon & climbing!;
3) Unemployment is up to 5.5% (a 10% increase);
4) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $12 TRILLION DOLLARS and prices still dropping;
5) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
6) As I write, THE DOW is probing another low~~$2.5 TRILLION DOLLARS HAS EVAPORATED FROM THEIR STOCKS, BONDS & MUTUAL FUNDS INVESTMENT PORTFOLIOS!


YES, IN 2006 AMERICA VOTED FOR CHANGE...AND WE SURE GOT IT! ....

REMEMBER THE PRESIDENT HAS NO CONTROL OVER ANY OF THESE ISSUES, ONLY CONGRESS.

AND WHAT HAS CONGRESS DONE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO HELP.


NOW THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT CLAIMS HE IS GOING TO REALLY GIVE US CHANGE ALONG WITH A DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS!!!!

JUST HOW MUCH MORE 'CHANGE' DO YOU THINK YOU CAN STAND?

 

[Guest]

Get your 'prayer rug' ready! :wink:

 

[magickmumu]

@ Ellis

Your afraid of change? Seems like your neophobic (afraid of novelty)
It doesn't matter what you vote, things need to change right now, because the US can't afford to go on like it always did.

Ellis you seem to be afraid of the future, and scared of change.
You,ve got to grow up. Things are not going to stay the way they are. It's impossible.

 

[Guest]

Magic, I am hesitant at change. Hence the conservatism. However, I am reticent about giving the top job in the most powerful country on earth to an inexperienced Muslim. I've said I don't like McCain either, but the Muslim thing rubs me the wrong way. Like it or not, the USA is founded on Christian principles. I'm not ready to change that up just yet. Right on.

 

[magickmumu]

So your not only neophobic, your also xenophobic.

 

[Guest]

You assume too much. Not true. I have friends of every stripe and color. I just wouldn't put someone who even has a slim chance of being a Muslim operative in there. Surely we could find someone without that to run.

 

[magickmumu]

Maybe I assume to much.
I am not religious myself, so for me it's all the same. Christian, Muslim or Jew.
I was brought up without religion, church or god.
At school I had discussions about religion in class.
The teacher was a Christian and a lot of the students where Muslims. They all attacked me verbally, and told me I could not be a honest human being without religion.
I was mad with rage.

So for me, all dogmatic and oppressive religions are a threat to our freedom.

 

[FluidDruid]

Please, he's not a terrorist, thats outrageously hilarious for you to even mention. Quit watching the O'Reilly factor!

Christianity is a joke, ask me why.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Like it or not, the USA is founded on Christian principles.

No, that's not true. Where did you get that from?
The USA is founded on Masonic and Deistic principles. Whatever theistic or Christian themes you can find in American anthems, pledges, currency etc. are all later additions.

"Christians have been led to believe that the government of the United States of America is based on the basic principles of Christian morality, which have their origin in the Scriptures. Historical evidence militates against the view that those who formulated the fundamental documents of American government were Christians. To the contrary, not a few who wrote and signed the Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation and the U. S. Constitution were Deists, Theists and Freemasons. Webster's Dictionary defines "theism" and "deism":

Theism - "belief in the existence of a god or gods; specif: belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of man and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world."

Deism - "a movement or system of thought advocating natural religions based on human reason rather than revelation, emphasizing morality, and in the 18th century denying the interference of the Creator with the laws of the universe."

One recent historical account of Freemasonry, THE TEMPLE & THE LODGE, boasts instead of the profound influence of Freemasonry on the founding documents:

"Of the fifty-six signatories of the Declaration of Independence, only nine can definitely be identified as Freemasons, while ten others may possibly have been. Of the general officers in the Continental Army, there were so far as documentation can establish, thirty-three Freemasons out of seventy-four. Granted the known Freemasons were, as a rule, more prominent, more instrumental in shaping the course of events than their unaffiliated colleagues...

"On 11 June, (the Continental) Congress appointed a committee to draft a declaration of independence. Of the five men on this committee, two - Franklin and...Robert Livingston - were Freemasons, and one, Robert Sherman, is believed, though not confirmed, to have been. The other two, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams - were not, despite subsequent claims to the contrary. The text of the declaration was composed by Jefferson. It was submitted to Congress and accepted on 4 July 1776. The nine signatories who can now be established as proven Freemasons, and the ten who were possibly so, included such influential figures as Washington, Franklin and, of course, the president of the Congress, John Hancock. The army, moreover, remained almost entirely in Freemasonic hands...As we shall see, it is in the Constitution that the influence of Freemasonry is most discernible...

"At last, on 25 May 1787, the Constitutional Convention opened in Philadelphia and commenced its efforts to devise the machinery of government for the new nation. The first voice to make itself heard in any significantly influential way was a characteristically Freemasonic one, that of Edmund Randolph.. Randolph...a member of a Williamsburg lodge, had become Washington's aide-de-camp. Subsequently he was to become Attorney-General, then governor of Virginia and Grand Master of Virginia's Grand Lodge. During Washington's presidency, he was to serve as the first Attorney-General of the United States, then the first Secretary of State.

"...There were ultimately five dominant and guiding spirits behind the Constitution - Washington, Franklin, Randolph, Jefferson and John Adams. Of these, the first three were active Freemasons, but men who took their Freemasonry extremely seriously - men who subscribed fervently to its ideals, whose entire orientation had been shaped and conditioned by it. And Adam's position, though he himself is not known to have been a Freemason was virtually identical to theirs. When he became president, moreover, he appointed a prominent Freemason, John Marshall, as first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court." (1)

The Masonic Foundations of the US

More about the Masonic US Presidents and the signers of the Declaration of Independence: http://www.calodges.org/no406/FAMASONS.HTM