Ron Paul for President! ???

[GOD]

"In this specific case democracy crashed because those 88% didn't understood or didn't care that voting is a Fucking duty. I know a few people who always cry about this political guy beeing terrible, but when I ask them whom they voted for, most of the time they tell me that they didn't voted at all, and that's usually at this moment that I tell them that in this case they should just shut the fuck up..."

You missed the point . They are all the same . There is no point in voting if your ownly allowed to vote for front men for the same old interests / political mafias . And there is a diference between the theoretical , never existed , posibility of democracy and what we have across the world now that is falsly called democracy , wich is the oposit of democracy = party political democracy . = gang politics / mafia politics . In that system it wouldnt matter if everyone voted , the majority would still loose . Just do the maths with the people who actualy did vote instead of the people who could have voted . The result is about the same .

"I don't think you guys understand the gravity of what's being said by Ron Paul. This isn't just a little change here and there, waving off questions about corporatism or war for money, and merely symbolic-resolution for votes -- this is the dismantling of a government as we have come to know it."

Thats exactly why he wont get in , the establishment wont allow it , and he wont win anyway . I`m not saying that the man is not sincere or that his words are not right.............I havent watched the video......Yet . But i will just to satisfy some peoples childish naivety .

 

[Lion]

some peoples childish naivety .

 

[spice]

Most Americans aren't aware of the existence of something known as the 'Electoral College', or what it is, even though we're taught about it at school, and it is discussed fairly openly.

Simply put, the electoral college is a built-in guarantee that the popular vote does not determine the outcome of a presidential bid in this country. Seems the founding fathers were afraid of something popularly known as 'mob rule' determinig who is president. This seems kinda dirty to me, as 'mob rule' would probably only exist if our governors broke their fucking contract with us, WHICH THEY HAVE,
and in such instance it would seem to be an example of a galvanized democracy functioning highly effectively.

As pointed out above, democracy as practiced in our country is very much a minority rule kind of thing, not dissimilar from apartheid in South Africa, in the day.

Voter apathy is our response to getting shafted repeatedly by our 'leaders'
. We would have a duty to vote, IF they lived up to their obligation to give us candidates who were worth voting for.

But they dont, and we dont, because of that.
It simplifies quite nicely, and you either have faith in the system, or you don't. But its a stagnant system, too concerned about clinging to power to actually evolve.
Too focused on control to grow.

I like both Ron Paul and Mike Gravel. But I cant vote, because I made dancing pills ten years ago.

Thats a representative government for you.

 

[GOD]

Spice you are a cool man . I think that they will understand that.......even the naive ones . I`m laughing my balls off !!!!!

 

[buffachino]

You can’t vote for your privatised, faceless world banking organisations can you; so how is anything going to change when they perpetually run the governments they help create? Is one party or group going to ignore their masters and deny themselves all of this empowerment, funding and decadence, just to prove a point or dispose of a currently ‘devoid’ system?

Of course the answer is NO; they will simply be a replacement, and all promises for any change go the way of our climate and humanity; jammed up the proverbial backside of the worlds business and enslavement cartels and their mafia henchmen.
The truth is we have no control. The only change is a new label for a perpetual, stagnant cancerous system that has no agenda other than to keep the world complacent, ignorant, consuming and irreverent; keeping you enslaved and begging for more.
Power is the only agenda, and no party or man can change this within a system bound to its survival and diligence. The only way out seems to be to reject this system and everything it projects; reviving the ancient and noble way of life within self sufficiency, equilibrium and collaboration.

Competition and destruction are not intrinsic qualities of man; we have been bred and indoctrinated into this mindset; unnatural hyper-egocentricity ingrained into the minds of the human race as to perpetuate this diabolical system; which without this oblivious greed and voracity would not be able to subsist.

McKenna was right in that the only way out is a forward escape into the past.

Peace.

 

[spice]

buff- I don't vote anyway, I was just making the point that they aren't even interested in letting me BELIEVE I can have a voice, simply because I already exercized that voice, and loudly, in my actions 10 years ago, actions which took a much more linear track into influencing peoples thinking.
Manufacturing psychedelics scare the leaders of this country as much as full blown jihad-ists, because they equate to the same thing; radical change of a form not understood by pickup truch (and Mercedes-Benz) driving rednecks.

That being said, the Ron Pauls and the Mike Gravels are worth giving an ear to, if for no other reason than the novelty of what they're saying. Ron Paul is from Texas, GW Bush's home state, so it seems the 'yang' may be encountering the 'yin'

in other words,

Flowers grow in shit and dead stuff. So does vegetables.

This is part of a process, a cycle, and right now, we're all standing under the ass of a large ruminant animal, and the flowers are still a wish for spring.

 

[Guest]

Hahaha, I didn't think it would open a discussion this big.

But what disturbs me is the only sollution there is is probably a revolution.
Get up, stand up, stand up for your right....

 

[spice]

Buffachino, you say that competition and destruction are not intrinsic qualities in man....
If you wish, you can hold that view, contrary to all recorded history. Return to the archaic ways ala Mckenna is only PART of the solution.
There is no way to un-invent the city-state-military complex.
It is an idea which must be transformed from the inside out, and for many people,this will mean losing everything before understanding is achieved.

The war drive in mankind is strong. It is a REALITY, not an abstraction, like your concept of 'utopia'.
It has concreteness, and is demonstrable over a large scale,
the scale of history.
Competitiveness is just redirected war-drive.

I state that they ARE intrinsic qualities in man, but that there are mutants among us who believe not only that it should be changed, but that it CAN be changed.
But what IS the bedrock upon which this 'control' we hate so much based on?

It is based on the fact that historically we, PEOPLE, all of us,
could NOT respect each others borders, and rights, and raided and stole and made war upon each other, which created the need for military.

An archaic revival is only one piece of the answer. Part of it must be something that has not been seen before. If its been seen before, its obviously not the answer....

 

[tryptonaut]

No , what are politics / polytricks , = telling lies to people for power , and why do we need them ? The word doomed is your choice of word not mine . I`m just being realistic , when have politicians ever done anything for anyone anywhere exept themselves ? Why has the world got so many easy to solve problems ? I am against partys = political mafia groups .

GOD, I see you are a follower of Henry David Thoreau, are you? "‘That government is best which governs not at all; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have."

For anyone who doesn't know Thoreau, it's worth looking into his writings. The man lived 150 years ago and anticipated all the ideas that we usually think were discovered during the psychedelic revolution in '68 (and other major changes/revolutions throughout the 20th century)

 

[Rymmen]

I'm going to wager that competitiveness is not an intrinsic quality, but that progress (into whatever their subjective desires are) is. No person, I think, is born with a desire to simply be ahead of someone else, but to live better off than the day before. You won't truly satiate the market if you just keep above the competition -- that keeps demand for your product low. Hell, look at any item that is far above the rest. The iPod, for example. By far, one of the greatest products in its market, but not simply because it is a little bit above their next competitor, but because it went as far as the companies' intellect could take them.

I'm guessing that a market-based economy is not inherently evil, but greed (contrasted by desire) is the one that creates so much difficulty here.

 

[????????]

...competition and destruction are not intrinsic qualities in man....
If you wish, you can hold that view, contrary to all recorded history...

I've been thinking... and yes, I agree that competition is inherent in us becasue after all, aren't we supposed to be competitive? Aren't we supposed to conquer the land and reproduce and perpetuate and all of that? hell, we are designed to be that way, we are engineered to win the evolution game and in fact, we are so good at it that we actually messed up the natural selection process and now we're all over the planet and our actions are so influential that we altered global climate and we're thinking of ways to prevent our self caused extinction because we are too much for Earth! god screwed us by making us too good?!

 

[buffachino]

Spice,

This begs the question of how ancient cultures, or so called noble savages, survived to exist in the time of their empirical conquest by the west?
These archaic societal structures were present in aboriginal cultures around the globe, which eventually gave rise to the tainted humanity we now know; some of these still exist, inhabiting the last peaceful enclaves of this planet.
Some examples are tribes within the Amazon, Africa, the Australian aboriginals, pacific islanders and an array of others. These people existed, yet few still do, in a state of perpetual equilibrium and symbiosis with themselves and their environments without conflict.
How then is violence and conquest an intrinsic quality of all humanity, when our deeply archaic ancestral lineage shows little if any sign of these traits? If all nature shares these attribute with us, for we as a part of nature share our qualities with nature; then how has nature survived its own malevolence that seems to be so inherent within humanity regardless of evolutionary stature?

We, who are so ‘advanced’ in our understanding of our environment and each other, whilst having a monopoly of however ill-honourably attained resources, must then have the pure capacity and conscious intent to remake this paradise; this equilibrium with ourselves and our surroundings for no other reason than the pure and primal objective of our synchronous evolution. What must not remain from this bitter age of destruction and decadence is the monopoly on the information that drives the possibility or discrepancy thereof between our species, environment and society.

History is the vehicle for this mindset of competitive, destructive war, both between ourselves and the world which we inhabit; it is indeed a fallacy of mankind.
It is a result of our evolution I must agree, in that because of our lack of direct collaboration with the surrounding natural environment and our dominance over it through our rudimentary technology, we must then strive against ourselves to rebalance the equilibrium; yet this is only through the power structure that holds information as its primary weapon that our race can concede defeat to our supposed intrinsic qualities of homicidal subjugation. For the equilibrium must be metaphysical as well as physical; of the mind as well as the body.

Without dominion over information, conflict is resolved for a greater good of establishment and coexistence; the entire populace, with access to a free wealth of knowledge, understands the foolishness of attempting to exploit everything that can be measurably attained without respect for sustainability. People understand that with domination comes destruction.

Without a twisted and biased historical context and the influence over knowledge, there would not be a power complex within society. This has stemmed from the leaders of civilisations holding the wealth of information, and manipulating its distribution to the people as to hold the power and supremacy within that society. History is bound to corrupted and biased impression of political and mercantile rhetoric of the occurrences and establishments within the undertakings of documented record. The same is happening here and now, the general public is on a ‘need to know basis’ from which it will never be free because of the pure dominion of knowledge by those who dominate the culture. Culture is the enemy of the people.

My view is that the privatised, militaristic, material domination of a sick and dying world will, as you have said, not be able to be reconstructed in a way that holds true for the continuation of our species or the beginning of something novel and sublime through a change in an already dead system. Rather the salvation comes from creating a new society completely, that will supersede the one that has dominated humankind for centuries.

The ‘war drive’ only comes out of a need to conquer external material possession, to further ones own capitol gains and advance or encroach on the liberties of others through the malignancy of a power structure. If there is no need to gain what is already present, there will be no drive to attempt conquest against things that are not needed. This also means that we will have a need for some degree of nomadic exchange between us and an established and sustainable environment; wether this is on a purely agricultural basis or in an entirety.
We need to establish a society that is in itself a singular global village or collective, the opposite of the world government where we are ruled by an elite and our actions and possibility dictated by an externalised, privatised force. It is in essence an equal society; equal rights, equal knowledge, equal education, equal living conditions. Totally based upon a single premise and all facets of this same system; nothing is privatised and everything flows together; where production and progress work for equal survivability with that which they work with and from.

I realise this sounds like a dream, a fleeting hope that itself seems impossible to the eyes of those trapped within a system totally opposite to this, but the civilisation I talk of is itself pure possibility, and if all of the criteria are met, we will have peace.

 

[buffachino]

Oh and ????????
That’s what you’re ‘told’ but is that what you see and experience in nature? Are all the species of this planet constantly fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage? (to quote Ellen Ripley from aliens).
What I see is each race playing a micro/macrocosmic role in the sustainability of their own species and their environment on a coexistent and symbiotic basis. Only in cancer and viruses do you see the opposite; which means in turn that we are or have become through the corruption of information a disease on this earth.

 

[????????]

Well yes, I agree with you, if we look in nature we find bonobos, one of our closest relatives; there are chimpanzees in the genus pan but there is the common chimp, which is the one everyone is familiar with, and there is the less known bonobo; they are very cool primates who resolve their conflicts without violence but using sex! they literally make love not war, unlike the more aggressive common chimpanzee which also has a male dominated culture (bonobos are matriarchal). If there is someone reading this and has no idea of what I'm talking about google bonobos, it's interesting.

so I DO believe we have this war-like traits, but the point is that we are able to realize this and therefore must suppress and control it! simple to say but another thing to do...

 

[GOD]

The things that we can do to change things are to open our eyes and minds , to be politicaly aware , be loving careing people and lead by intelligence and good example , educate ourselves , educate other people , take / produce and supply people with mind expanding things and the information of how to make / grow those things

 

[tryptonaut]

From all the people I got to meet personally who were bosses, managers, investment bankers (all the different kind of leading positions in the segment of the market that seems to be the root of all evil, the money market where it's all about money, not products or actual work) about 8 out of 10 were showing the signs of a severe narcissistic personality disorder. This mental condition is characterized as follows:

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by other special people
4. requires excessive admiration
5. strong sense of entitlement
6. takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7. lacks empathy
8. is often envious or believes others are envious of him or her
9. arrogant behavior


The problem seems to be that these people are not being helped like they should be, but they are seen as the most effective in our society. The values of these mentally ill people are being held high as an ideal for everybody. You can't expect anything good coming out of it...