MDMA under depression?

[thadivine]

A friend of mine wants to take MDMA with me (will be both our first times) on a fare(?kermis). The only thing is, he has a depression for many years now due to his father which abused him...I tried to search for him on some reliable info what happens when you take XTC when depressed, but really couldnt find anything...

My question is: will it be good for him to take it? Wont it make the depression even worse afterwards of even better?

Perhaps someone has experience with this situation or some nice article for me?

thnx

 

[Lion]

i'm not sure but i think they tried treating depressions with E and LSD.
So i cant see an actual row here..

 

[GOD]

E is used in therapys for depression , but with a therapist . It is a mood magnifyer so it could be that it makes your friend more depressed . I used to think it was a love drug untill someone started pushing small people around at a party when i was on E . I kicked him out .

 

[Psychoid]

MDMA has been used by soldier in I-don't-remember-which war, which made them more alert, more concentrated, permitted them to fight for longer and eat less, and... made it easier for them to kill people.

 

[phalaris]

MDMA has been used by soldier in I-don't-remember-which war, which made them more alert, more concentrated, permitted them to fight for longer and eat less, and... made it easier for them to kill people.

you're not talking meth-amphetamine here ?

 

[VerusDeus]

I think it's a very bad idea to give him MDMA, and certaintly on a fare. If he is going to do MDMA it should be in a comfortable/relaxed setting, because only in such a setting will he be able to deal with his trauma's. (there's a high probabillity that he will be reliving/over-thinking his trauma's)

But I wouldn't suggest taking MDMA for it's therapeutic value anyway, cause in my opinion it only works short-terms. I used it to treat my own depression, and it worked wonders, only after a week or two the depressions slowly come back.

I just don't think someone with such trauma's would get anything positive out of MDMA, UNLESS he's with a professional psychologist.

Peace.

 

[phalaris]

I just don't think someone with such trauma's would get anything positive out of MDMA, UNLESS he's with a professional psychologist

I think the therapist should have experience with MDMA him/herself to qualify as a professional therapist.

I always struck me as insane; prescribing emotion modulating medicines without any firsthand experience with them.

But that is what psychiatrists do routinely.


More ontopic:

Does your friend look forward to the experience very much, and was the setting his idea ?

I agree with verusdeus:

If he is going to do MDMA it should be in a comfortable/relaxed setting, because only in such a setting will he be able to deal with his trauma's. (there's a high probabillity that he will be reliving/over-thinking his trauma's)

Maybe a combination would be ideal;

First a quit setting for reliving the emotial aspects and dealing with the causes of the depression, followed by the noisy environment of the fare. The fare can then act as a reward and a 'ressetter'.

The catch is: are you yourself ready to deal with all the deep emotions of your friend ?

 

[Guest]

I my opinion giving MDMA to someone who's feeling depressed isn't a good idea.

MDMA is just too artificial, so even if he likes the trip, there's the risk that he'll want to do it over and over again.

Just my two cents...

 

[phalaris]

Just casually giving MDMA would not be wise, I agree. But in a therapeutic session, with intent to do emotional work MDMA could be beneficial I think.

Then it boils down to:

i What is a therapeutic session ? and:

ii Who is a therapist ?


i What makes up a suitable session-environment for an individual that is undergoing therapy. Needles to say, this is highly personal. What rituals are part of the session. Is there some general outline of the session that is explained up front.

ii Who can play the role of therapist. Should the person have similar experiences or not. Should the person play a very active guiding role, or just be present. With real heavy issues such as here, there is the danger that the therapist can get traumatized as well.

That is why I asked the question whether or not Thadavine was ready to really dive into the emotions of his friend.

Once I helped out a friend, and later he told me it helped quite a bit. Likewise, I turned to a friend to talk through some emotional things myself. Both times methylone was used to get in a fully talkative and listening mode. But none of the discussed issues were as serious as Thadive described.

Thadevine: Strength to you, whatever you guys decide.


(About MDMA being too artifical. Maybe. But it would not surprise me at all if in ten years time a plant is discovered that contains MDMA natively.)

 

[Guest]

(About MDMA being too artifical. Maybe. But it would not surprise me at all if in ten years time a plant is discovered that contains MDMA natively.)

You misunderstood me here, I was refering to the effect itself, not to the fact that MDMA is artificialy created...

Hell, it annoys me so much when someone tolds me "Oh well, this stuff can be found in nature, so it has to be good !"... Ever heard about Datura ?

In my opinion MDMA sort of "change" your personallity during the trip, unlike most psychedelics, there's a part of you "missing"... That's for the artificial side.

 

[Psychoid]

MDMA has been used by soldier in I-don't-remember-which war, which made them more alert, more concentrated, permitted them to fight for longer and eat less, and... made it easier for them to kill people.

you're not talking meth-amphetamine here ?

Both have been used. What is particular with MDMA is that you could slit someone's throat wide open with a big smile in your face.

And also, sorry for going out-topic...

In my opinion one should never take MDMA while dealing with a depression. But I am no expert... Maybe a small dose could do some good.

 

[phalaris]

You misunderstood me here, I was refering to the effect itself, not to the fact that MDMA is artificialy created...

Hell, it annoys me so much when someone tolds me "Oh well, this stuff can be found in nature, so it has to be good !"... Ever heard about Datura ?

I intentionally misunderstood you.

I agree, it is completely irrelevant if a compound comes from nature, or is synthesized in some lab in India. It is all Lego bricks.

So yeah, almost needless say, all compounds should be evaluated on it's individual merits.

Personally I find MDMA a bit pushy and shallow. It would not be my choice of dealing with depression. But I do not understand the standard dogma (on this forum at least):

Depression = Do not use MDMA.

Why is that ?

Fear is easy to spread, and hard to solve.
If you go into the MDMA experience expecting it will worsen depression, it will. Would it not also work the other way around ?

There have been numerous reports on using MDMA for treatment of anxiety and depression related disorders.

So, to get back helping Thadavine and his friend.

If you guys go ahead and take the MDMA, have a good experience. You can even mention that it was researched for treatment of depression in the 1960'/70'. If you decide not to take it, have a good experiene as well. Relax and enjoy the ride.
Have a good day at the fare.

Ciao.

 

[Mesaja]

I think a small dose of MDMA will do the trick.Just to relaxe ur friend.
But,maybe the best way to avoid even more depresion,is to smoke some Gandja with it.
Also,u`ll need to have a nice setting for the session.
Best way is to stay at home,smoke some pot and enjoy.
I think MDMA wiil make ur friend talk about his problems,and solve his issues.U have nothing to lose,so try it...why not/

 

[forgetoz]

Please don't go and do more damage to your friend. Forget about that idea.

YES, it would be an interesting approach, by someone who knows what he's doing and what he's dealing with, but NO, you shouldn't try and do it yourself. Please.

Take GOD's and VersusDeus' advise. Help your friend find professional help...then you can maybe suggest his therapist to explore the use of MDMA

PS:

U have nothing to lose,so try it...why not/

Mesaja, do me/us a favour and don't ever post anything like that again.

 

[Mesaja]

I said SMALL DOSE....
That won`t do any harm,wolud it....

 

[Lion]

I said SMALL DOSE....
That won`t do any harm,wolud it....

I don't see MUCH danger in a small dose either...
Remember orange juice can loosen up the effects also.

 

[thadivine]

Thanks for all the help so far

It was his idea to do it (tough i mentioned wanting to MDMA sometime, it was his idea to do it together on the fare, with perhaps someone else too.)

The thing is, he doesnt know how it would work for his depression, he tried looking on the net, found not much (reliable) info (he looked on the mayor sites too, used to scare ppl )

To tiam: i dont think him wanting to do it over again often is a problem, he just wants to try it once, but is unsure about the effects becouse he's depressed..

Smoking some nice weed with it wont do the trick, he stopped smoking weed half a year ago (after 2 years of daily use). He decided this after taking half a dose of shrooms(hawaiian, not a good starter..) with me and another friend(i was on a whole), i didnt really knew very much about his depression, just a lil. He DID go bad for an hour, but learned very much from it.
He does still smoke hasj from time to time tough, guess that would be good too ?

At this time i know much of his problems, he told me about all the shit happened to him (btw the abuse by his father wasnt sexual abuse or something - some people misunderstand this, in the beginning i did too, its about psychological abuse Since a year he has no contact with him anymore. He was robbed twice, beaten up once, and has a record for something he shouldnt have 1 for, which gives more problems).
With saying this, i think i can handle his feelings coz i generally know many of em and people come to me more often to talk about their problems.

Anyway, he has good and bad days. Often he is in a good mood when this instntly switches when something bad happens (for example when his ex sends him a sms saying shit), perhaps its a good idea to leave his telephone at home?

We both really like nature, so perhaps its an idea to start in the park, talking a bit and when he feels like it going to the fare? Perhaps its good if he takes half a dose (guess about 60mg?), i take a whole?

so from what i understand it wont worsen the depression afterwards? What about during the trip, is it possible to go bad on e?


Thanks again grttz

 

[Mesaja]

Well,start with half a dose...i think it would be enough,since you are doing it for the first time,the tolerance is zero.
I remember my first MDMA exp. was with half a pill with my friend.The effects took place in 40 minutes,and lasted for 4 hours.I was fuckin` beautyfull.
Also,nature is a realy nice place to do it.Specialy if you like the nature.We were in a park during the experience,and...hell,it was unique.
I think that ur friend will get out depression sooner than u think.So,once again....try it.
Just remember-SMALL DOSE is enough.Hold on to tha rule,and this will be one of the nicest experiences in ur lifes.
I wish ur friend to get out of depression very soon.Best of luck.
??

 

[GOD]

"If you go into the MDMA experience expecting it will worsen depression, it will. Would it not also work the other way around ?"

Thats the problem , it might and it might not with a depressed person . And YOU cant be sure either way so better stay on the safe side . Are you a doctor ? Can you make a telepathic long distance diagnosis ? Would you be prepared to take the responsibility for any damage that a depressed person you dont know , have never met could do to themselves ? Especialy after what we have heard about him .

"But I do not understand the standard dogma (on this forum at least): " - "Depression = Do not use MDMA.Why is that ? "

This is called common sense and being a loving understanding adult . Only realy crass backward morons use sick people to masterbate their egos . Sick people are not there to be used as guinia pigs for iresponsible mengele experiments by people who overestimate themselves .

"There have been numerous reports on using MDMA for treatment of anxiety and depression related disorders. "

Yes . With trained therapists in a controled set and setting . and not because you magnanimously declair that it might be OK . Remember the problems we / our scene had with / because Tim Leary was acused of being iresponsible with drugs ? Remember why mushrooms are banned in Holland ??? Because iresponsible idiots abused them .

"So, to get back helping Thadavine and his friend. "

Well after reading the crap that you have just written i am realy glad about that .

"the best way to avoid even more depresion,is to smoke some Gandja with it. "

OH WOW !!! Doctor . Where did you get that crap from ????? It can be and it can also fuck people up badly . You are not a doctor and you do not know this person . Cannabis has a scientificaly based reputation for causing latent psychose and depressions to break out .

"U have nothing to lose,so try it...why not/"

What about your freedom , your peace of mind for the rest of your life and your victims sanity and/or his life .

"Mesaja, do me/us a favour and don't ever post anything like that again."

YES . Both of you .

"Remember orange juice can loosen up the effects also"

No i does not . A long stay in a closed mental hospital can work wonders though . So does a few years in prison to people who poison ill people .

" is it possible to go bad on e? "

YES . Its a mood enhancer not an anti depressant .


Sorry if that came across hard , no offence was ment .

 

[Lion]

Are you a doctor ?

Perhaps it's a reasonable idea to let your friend see his shrink and ask for advice.