Is safrole bioactive?

[spice]

Tho this has long been relegated to the urban myth department, I must again ask this question based on new input and feedback.

Is safrole bio-active?

Not on its own, of course, but does the body bio-aminate it?


Shulgin hints at it......with the statement of 'an enzyme in a rabbits liver aminates' or some such.....



could this be the source and reason for those carcinogenicity rumors/classifications?


Can you roll without a lab?





Well, then, why is nutmeg an active compound when ingested?



Some of you may remember a while back a guy started a topic on this, saying he had been 'shown how' round the campfire at some festival.

We all snickered at him, and derided him, but he was adamant; the product was active, and they watched the guy 'make' it

from his description, it was nothing more than an extraction.....but he swore the product was active.



I think there is a big secret here.

 

[Sticki]

Ergot, when ingested is reported to have alot of the side effects related to LSD but also is extremely dangerous to be consumed in most cases leading to death I believe. However Isolation and chemical reaction produce the most wonderfull chemical LSD-25 which to date (I think) not one human death can be attributed to an lethal dose of LSD.

Why would it not be the simillar with Safrole and MDMA?

I guess it is probably bioactive too but also fatally poisonous at a ever so slightly higher dose and the isolated chemical MDMA is relatively safe even at fairly high dose also delivering a clearer experience.

 

[spice]

Sticki people have been drinking copious amounts of sassafras tea in the southeast US, and no one ever got sick once...if safrole really were bad for you, it, like marijuana, would have been outed lonnnnnng ago


That is bullshit government propaganda. Even the original 'it's carcinogenic to rats' experiments were not scientifically objective.

The reason why it would be different than ergot is the structure of the molecule. Ergot needs a lot more than a bio-amination to become LSD, but Shulgin specifically mentions an enzyme in a rabbits liver that aminates safrole. Shulgin doesn't just put things out there like that, I realize now.

I think he was saying something.

 

[Sticki]

Ok I replied too quick with too little research, Just feeling gun ho with the replies

I think a bit of logical process of elimination is all it would require to find what your looking for, Happy hunting mate

Here's some interesting info on the bioactivation and genotoxicity of Safrole oil - http://edepot.wur.nl/121896

Some more info on Sassafras - http://www.peacehealth.org/kbase/cam/hn-3661007.htm

 

[Sticki]

Just glancing at the Sassafras info page and I stumbled upon "Safrole causes liver cancer if given to laboratory animals "in high doses and for extended periods of time."11 This requires metabolism of safrole by the liver into other toxic compounds, though the liver also removes some of these compounds for excretion through the urine."

Maybe Shulgin hints upon the urinary excretion of the rabbit?

 

[IJesusChrist]

I've dreamt of having a sassafras farm, never had a dream about safrole though.

as far as the toxicity is concerned, you're completely right spice - there is none.
I asked my biology teacher once

"Why is benzene so carcinogenic?"

"Hahahahahahaha, of course it is, when you make rats swim in it - something is bound to happen."

Same applies to safrole. According to sticki's link, the rats were given an amount equal to around a gram a day for nearly two months (I think thats what I read). That's a large amount for a rat - that is like a human (big stretch of a comparison) eating 120 grams of pure safrole a day for two months, thats a shit load of safrole. 120 grams of MDMA in one day would kill you. 120 grams of pure mdma is enough for 2 thousand people. Of course your going to die if you take 120 grams of safrole each day. The other interesting point of the article is the food matrix - if you were to eat safrole from natural substances you might need even more than 120 grams per day to die!

Wouldn't you need to make it Iso- though iin order for it to aminate? I have lost most of my will power to look up anything on safrole. Would be nice though - extract, do a little boiling, voila - have a good weekend. 8)

 

[NeilPatrickHarris]

i remember that guy you're referring to spice. i admittedly jumped on that guy with little research into the possibility of the body biologically aminating it. i remember a similar topic by 69ron over at dmt-nexus about elemicin being aminated by the body, i remember there being controversy over that and many nay-sayers.

i have very little to add to this topic aside from two things really. the first is, that there is branded MDA that is called "sassafras" it may or may not be from the same chemist (i doubt it is but who knows). it's in a gelcap, is a brownish powder, smells VERY strongly of safrole and is just crude MDA. it was popular in the rave scene in my area about 10 years ago, i had some and enjoyed it, it was definitely MDA. now i've heard from many people online on different forums talking about "sassafras" gelcaps that are a brownish (tan) to very off-white powder, supposedly it's very popular at hippy shows i'm told. it's all the same, crude dirty MDA. i've heard somebody before say "it's organic" this and that, that's why i jumped all over the guy. anyone can put anything in a gelcap but IMHO "sassafras" is a brand of crude impure MDA.

i've consumed small amounts of safrole but no more than a couple grams, the taste is too strong to go any further than that. i was playing around with root beer, the flavor was intense like fireworks going off in my mouth, too strong. i want to say that i've gotten effects from safrole, don't take my word for it because it could've been placebo. but what i got everytime i've consumed safrole (only a few times) was a jittery stimulation, anxiety, mentally i felt cloudy, not any typical feel of any MDxAmphetamine, i actually found it to be very unpleasant and found myself waiting/wishing the effects would wear off. it didn't last long, an hour-ish or so, give or take, this was a while back and i don't remember exactly. it could've been placebo but if it was, it was a strong shitty placebo lol

 

[molecularconcept]

where i come from, "sassafras" or just "sass" refers to MDA and "molly" refers to MDMA.

there was talk over on the Nexus that there is another chemical in the rootbark other than safrole that brought about mild pleasant effects. i forget what they proposed it was. the preferred method for isolating the mystery chemical was cold water extraction i believe.

 

[Moriarty]

Safrole is a stimulant all on it's own. The idea that your body aminates it was suggested by Shulgin in his own efforts to explain the well documented effects of nutmeg. Shulgin, of course, made a well educated guess by theorizing that it owes it's activity to myristicin aminating and, therefore, MMDA would be a minor metabolite of eating nutmeg. The nutmeg thing isn't disputed by anyone but no one knows why it has activity. I was reading about the documented effects of nutmeg in my Dad's pharmacology books as a child. However, most in the medical community have said that Shulgin's theory is most likely erroneous. Safrole's activity is said to be that of a stimulant and the book I am looking at puts it's dosage at 0.1cc, that is according to Remington's Practice of Pharmacy, 7th Edition, (1926), page 980. It seems obvious that whatever mechanism is responsible for nutmeg's affects are responsible for safrole's as well.

 

[molecularconcept]

@ squarepusher, you would want that to be a new topic, as it dosent have anything to do with safrole being bioactive, or really not about safrole at all.

 

[NeilPatrickHarris]

Moriarty thanks for that info. i've pondered the bioactivity of safrole for quite awhile so i appreciate that reference, good stuff. 0.1cc wow that's a pretty small dose, maybe the reason why i felt so uncomfortable was because i took entirely too much. perhaps a smaller amount would actually be pleasant.

 

[Moriarty]

You know, I don't know what they recommend in more modern books. I used to- and still do but the collection has severely dwindled- collect old pharmacology books as did my Father. I even had some so old that they had sections on using heavy metals and arsenic as medications. But I have lost all those. The old books are great. The one I still own has a section on morphine that includes and updated section about how the previous morphine dosages are now obsolete because they had new information on morphine hydrochloride and how these new "organic salts" were more bio-available. Back then pharmacists had to do more compounding. Sometimes they had to make their own drugs. Yep, synthesis note are included for things like chlorohydrate, barbiturates, ergotamine from cultures, ect. Pretty awesome how old pharmacology books were so informative. There are even diagrams on things like building tableting presses ;-)! I shit you not. It's a fun book and I used to have dozens and dozens of these old...like 100 year old... out-of-print books. All lost. If you see old pharmacology books buy one. You might just flip your lid when you turn the pages.

Moriarty

 

[Shake]

Lol yep. i ripped into him pretty much the most out of us all... I used to rip into ppl alot back in the day now that i think about it lol.. ohh well, changed man..

whatever it is im sure there is a subtle kick in safrol, like you know something is there... but i heard it gives you a headache lol but really the pure oil is foul disgusting flavour.. not that i have ever tried though 8)