HIdden Connections between Bush and Osama

[Meduzz]

then my question:

Why doesn't some smart dude invest in synthetic fuel?
Or are you saying that this happens and that they sell such fuel as "arabian high-cost fuel" for more profit?

And this proces you talk about must have need for resources no?
You can't just create atoms out of nothing (well we can create matter out of nothing but not large-scale)

 

[Forkbender]

yeah, that's what I was wondering too. What resources can be used for this process? If we can by any chance use CO2 it would all click. However, I'm a chemistrynoob, so I don't know if this is possible. And could it be produced at such a rate as to replace regular oil/fuel?

 

[Meduzz]

If we can by any chance use CO2 it would all click.

No, it would be useless.
I don't know if there is a proces to reconvert CO2 into fuel with forming of oxygen. (spice?)

If there would be one:
To make it (very!) simple:

fuel => energy + CO2 + ....
CO2 + energy +... => fuel

The bondings of fuel get broken and give energy, to maybe reverse the process that same amount of energy is again needed.
And during the burning of fuel only a fraction of the energy serves the system it's meant for. So reconverting CO2 into fuel would cost even more energy...

 

[Forkbender]

That makes sense.

So how can we rethink the way engines work? We need engines that don't put out so much CO2 (i.e. that do not work directly or indirectly on fossil fuel). Or we need to find a way to bind CO2 into coal (maybe some small organism can do this efficiently in the right circumstances? perhaps even in the car itself?). Or we need to plant more trees instead of chopping them down. Way more.

 

[Meduzz]

Or we need to plant more trees instead of chopping them down. Way more.

YES

 

[spice]

No, I am not saying they are creating it out of thin air.

Coal is one source, there are others, believe me....they have ways you'd never even think of...as I say, they divert a lot of stuff from areas that aren't directly related to fuel, per se, either.....


All fuel chemistry using conventional fuels such as hydrocarboms are in the domain, naturally enough of organic chemistry.....hence, any sorce of carbon can be used, theoretically, to make fuel.

Plants are the obvious masters at this, and this seems to be the way that modern thinking is evolving towards, that of duplication of photosynthesis, synthetically..


Any source of carbon can be used, I said.


This, when thought about, provides a plethora of potential precursors.


CO2 isn't going to be easily reacted to form much, unless you're a plant.....it's pretty inert, if it had a tendency to react, the earth wouldn't be trapping it the way it has been proven to do.

Look elsewhere.

 

[spice]

Forkbender- I must have been posting while yours was going up, I didn't see it....

About engines, efficiency, etc...

A frenchman a few years back invented an engine that runs on compressed air, that would actually power a vehicle. Where's he now?

Who knows?

There are inventors and thinkers on the problem, but everyone is stuck on stupid, so to speak in that their attitudes about what a car 'should be' are highly resistant to change.

A lot of that is the typical American wants a sofa that can cruise at seventy miles an hour.

 

[Forkbender]

How can you compress air without fuel? The electricity you use to do it is still the product of fossil fuels (most likely). Or are there other methods to do this? And is this more efficient than regular fuel?

 

[Meduzz]

Yes but it all comes down to this: we take energy out of nature to use it for our electricity and mechanics...

The vehicle with compressed air: you need energy to compress air...

Duplication of fotosynthesis is a great idea indeed, we need to use mechanisms that are already part of nature, in stead of doing the most lucrative thing.

Kinetic energy from the atmosphere is a great idea too (windmills), streaming water,...

 

[spice]

The end product of the complete combustion of a hydrocarbon fuel is two things;

H2O (water) and CO2 aka carbon dioxide

It is the end-product of COMPLETE combustion.

Combustion is a reaction called an oxidation, and we call it 'burning' in the real world. CO2 can't be reacted in this direction any further because of chemical reasons, namely that an atom of carbon can only bind to a maximum of two atoms of oxygen, and that these are called 'end-products' in the lab.....no amount of further burning them is possible.

When a hydrocarbon or other organic material is burned INCOMPLETELY, carbon MONOxide is formed.....and carbon monoxide is poisonous, unlike carbon dioxide, because that carbon monoxide molecule still is reactive on the side of the carbon that doesn't have an oxygen on it, and it will bond to the iron present in the hemoglobin molecule present in each and every one of your red blood cells.

Monoxide is reactive and can be ( and is) used for this tendency in certain synthesis....


So, in summation... Partial burning of anything organic creates Carbon MOnoxide, a REACTIVE gas that can combine with many different atoms and functional groups.....and perhaps be used in further elaborations along these lines... :idea:

 

[Forkbender]

we need to start think cradle to cradle instead of cradle to grave. Waste is not a bad thing, unless you don't use it or it is a danger to life. The way we use energy is basically reckless. We use whatever we need or think we need (big difference, worthy of a discussion on its own) without thinking about the consequences. But we can rethink these processes so that we think in cycles instead of straight lines. Far more aesthetic!

 

[spice]

Meduzz- Not as much energy as you need to run an internal combustion engine, I'd bet.

 

[Meduzz]

Maybe CO2 has some physical potential to make energy... too lazy to think right now though, i'm posting in between studying

I've heared of a power plant that uses osmosis to create electricity, where a river streams into the sea...

 

[Meduzz]

Meduzz- Not as much energy as you need to run an internal combustion engine, I'd bet.

Well if it's a car, it has to have the same power as a combustion engine in a car.
It has to give energy for exact the same velocity, mass, friction,...

 

[GOD]

"The USA are considered as the greatest liers in the world."

It doesnt matter where i have been in the world or with what people of diferent nationalitys i have spoken to all of them have said that . And still nothing happens , because we are controled , from birth to death indoctrinated and lied to .

"Whose fault is it? The liar or the person who believes it?"

The lyers . A person today has to educate himself to see the real truth of what is going on . And that means basicaly learning from zero onwards , rejecting all of our conditioning and asking socialy "blasphemous" questions . That is hard , its not possible for most of the people , people who have been trained to acept the soft , comfortable prison that they exist in . People have to have a reason to start to think indipendantly and to have the strength to risk becoming a social outcast . People have to have as much pain as Spice and me and others have had inflicted on us or to have used mind opening sacraments and to be intelligent enough to learn to think for themselves........ or to have taken an honest part in threads like this one and realy thought about what we are all saying .You cant blame blind people because they cant see .

The people who are being lied to have no responsibility , they are mostly honest , good people who havent got a clue about what is realy going on .

We can not just forgive the lyers , they have to see their crimes and admit them and then repent , PUBLICALY . Then we have to install mechanisms to prevent it happening again . I agree that 10 gramms of dried Cubensis mushrooms and a public , televised psychotherapy could open the criminals eyes and ours and help to heal them and the planet .

"but im sure karma will take care of him."

But that wont help us or the planet .

It doesnt matter where we get our energy from if the same people are in controll , playing the same games with the same methods .

A few days ago on the BBC world service there was a lecture given by a guy called Craig Ventur ( I think thats his name ) , you could probably look at the BBC web site and find out more . Hes the guy that decifered the human genom . He said that the only way he can think of to solve the worlds climate and energy problems is artificial life . That means geneticaly designed life that works similar to photo synthesis and takes CO2 out of the atmosphere and turns it into energy . He described it very well and showed that it would be possible . But he said that to make it pheasable every country would have to have thousands of silos full of these modifyed bacteria / cells spread out all over them to make it work .

To me the problem would be the same thing that prevents most alternative energy sources from taking over from the nuclear and petro-chemical industrys . They have the monopaly because no individual could build and run his own refinery or atomic power station . That the people who have money would not be able to controle it , it would be so to say democratic , like wind energy and solar panels , everyone would have their own and it would not be possible to blackmail and subdue the population via energy prices . ............... This is one of the main reasons why cannabliss is "illegal" , if we could all grow our own a large part of the industrial and chemical monopolys would not be possible anymore .

Again we come back to what i keep saying in thread after thread . First we have to define the problem . Then we have to find an unbeatable solution and agree on it , and then we have ........DO IT . The time for talking and ego masturbation sitting on the railway line commenting on the train thats about to hit us is rapidly comming to an end .


Wow !!! sometimes even i am amazed at my own genius .....................

 

[spice]

Meduzz- if you think 'inside the box' as to what defines a car, then you're right, there's no way around the efficiency hurdle you mention.....but what if the compressed air vehicle has, say five moving parts, zero combustion, greatly reduced weight, better aerodynamics, and reduced friction aspects?
We may have to redefine our thinking, radically, as to what a car is.....

 

[Meduzz]

Meduzz- if you think 'inside the box' as to what defines a car, then you're right, there's no way around the efficiency hurdle you mention.....but what if the compressed air vehicle has, say five moving parts, zero combustion, greatly reduced weight, better aerodynamics, and reduced friction aspects?
We may have to redefine our thinking, radically, as to what a car is.....

Sorry, i think you're right about the thinking but that car thing doesn't add up.
As for modifying that car, you're right, but it still would need the same power a combustion engine could do in it. (unless the engine is less heavy, but that would be only a minor difference.)

 

[Dantediv86]

i think this could be relevent to the discussion
follow the link above and watch the video
as always i'm not a person who trusts what he's been told
but it sure makes me doubt.

 

[Forkbender]

"Whose fault is it? The liar or the person who believes it?"

The lyers . A person today has to educate himself to see the real truth of what is going on . And that means basicaly learning from zero onwards , rejecting all of our conditioning and asking socialy "blasphemous" questions . That is hard , its not possible for most of the people , people who have been trained to acept the soft , comfortable prison that they exist in . People have to have a reason to start to think indipendantly and to have the strength to risk becoming a social outcast . People have to have as much pain as Spice and me and others have had inflicted on us or to have used mind opening sacraments and to be intelligent enough to learn to think for themselves........ or to have taken an honest part in threads like this one and realy thought about what we are all saying .You cant blame blind people because they cant see .

The people who are being lied to have no responsibility , they are mostly honest , good people who havent got a clue about what is realy going on .

This argument is basically: you cannot see that you are misled, therefore it is not your fault. The thing is that you can see it, if you are willing. Turning a blind eye just because you are not willing to think further than what you are taught in school is, to me at least, just as bad as misleading others.

And I don't believe that the liars themselves have any idea what is really going on. They might lie intentionally, but even then they don't know why they do it, because if they did, they wouldn't do it. I know this is based upon the presupposition that man has a good nature, but hey, I am not a Christian/Jew who believes in original sin.

 

[Forkbender]

i think this could be relevent to the discussion
follow the link above and watch the video
as always i'm not a person who trusts what he's been told
but it sure makes me doubt.

Hmm. I don't think this will happen. People will not go along with it. No chip will enter my body.