Big brother in the UK

[restin]

Neo: You ever have that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?
Choi: All the time. It's called mescaline, it's the only way to fly.

(just to quote the matrix again )

OK, as the "awake" and "dream" systems, resp. "reality" and "dream" or "reality" and "true reality" are not overlapping, we can never find out if one or the other exists. Therefore it is futile to discuss about that.

 

[st.bot.32]

I'm no expert either but I think it was basically to do with the idea of reality being hidden from the senses, and the pursuit to understand this reality (there is no spoon being a perfect example). I mentioned it because after the movie came out there were entire courses being taught in ths subject.. also friends studying buddhism (one in india) were telling me that a lot of monks got pretty into the movie when it came out.

even though i don't think it's really intended to be a buddhist film and after seeing the wachowski brothers turn the sequels into a Jesus flick (cringe, nice action sequences/robots tho i guess ), i wonder if they didn't just randomly get the elements right in the first movie now

also the first movie is a great acid film imo

 

[BrainEater]

sorry for speaking so abstract ???


but it's what i feel to be true.


i think the mind imprisons us into believing basically anything we want to believe.


i don't know though, why the mind does such things, it seems to me it is being programmed... most times not by ourselves, our brains being passive acceptors of beliefs....


and this only happens, because we don't know for sure what we are and why we are and that insecurity (fear of the unknown??), sort of forces us into believing stuff that other people say...


the most natural thing would be in my opinion not to believe anyone and to find out for yourself.

from the wikipedia article "the cartesian doubt":

"The demon

Descartes reasoned that our very own experience may very well be controlled by an "evil demon" of sorts. This demon, or genius, is powerful enough to control anybody. He could have created a superficial world that we may think we live in."


what if the intention of the demon would be that we never found out the truth??? then we could never find it, right ??? the problem is that the "demon, or genius is powerful enough to control anybody."
what if we could not trust the only thing we naturally trust which is our very own experience, because we would not know whether it would be true ??



yet somehow this entity wants us to learn, this is what i believe....i take the "demon" as a symbol for the matrix here, because as proposed, the matrix seems to be powerful enough, too, to control anybody.


peace :weedman:

 

[st.bot.32]

hey,

yeah i very much agree..

I wonder if it doesn't have something to do with being a basic survival instinct. The "demon" in this case could be just how we evolved as a species

Also unless you have lots of time in which to think about things, you probably won't start questioning reality so much.. especially if 95% of your life is spent on pure survival, gathering food, staying alive

 

[restin]

good, I understand what you say. But I already explained my answer to this in my previous post...

 

[BrainEater]

good, I understand what you say. But I already explained my answer to this in my previous post...

how do you KNOW that these seemingly separate realities do not overlap ????

hey,

yeah i very much agree..

I wonder if it doesn't have something to do with being a basic survival instinct. The "demon" in this case could be just how we evolved as a species

Also unless you have lots of time in which to think about things, you probably won't start questioning reality so much.. especially if 95% of your life is spent on pure survival, gathering food, staying alive

yes, evolution... but what more is evolution than adapting to the environment in relation to your/your species' needs and taking advantage from it???

 

[restin]

how do you KNOW that these seemingly separate realities do not overlap ????

I don't know how it is with you but I am attached to my senses.

The whole process is like that

[reality] ---> [senses (eyes,nose,touch)] ---> brain

=

[imput] ---> [processing] (---> [output])

The [processing]- part is what creates your,my, our reality.

So, why can't we tell if God exists or not? Because he is not attached to our senses. You can't see, feel,hear him and so he is not part of our reality.

And the matrix?

You can't say if the matrix is there, because it is congruent to (the [process]-) reality.

What does that mean?

If you see,touch a table, it is a table. You can't say if it is real or the matrix because in both cases you see a table...hard to explain

 

[st.bot.32]

In essence I do agree, there is no way to really tell what is real and what isn't, which is why I personally don't lose any sleep over it. I'd rather make use of where I am, what I have, live my life to the fullest.

I don't know how it is with you but I am attached to my senses.

The whole process is like that

[reality] ---> [senses (eyes,nose,touch)] ---> brain

=

[imput] ---> [processing] (---> [output])

The [processing]- part is what creates your,my, our reality.

What I think the matrix (the movie) kind of forgets is that you can delve into that process even more.. the senses intertwine with memory, with each other, with what we expect to see. As a small example lets use pattern recognition, if you are Chinese, if you see text or say a sign from a distance your brain will cause you to see indistinguishable chinese text. if you are an English speaker, you will see letters of the alphabet on the same sign.

Psychedelics have definitely caused me to question my senses more, or at the very least how my brain interprets these signals. So while I'm not too concerned with a grandiose higher reality that may exist, I do recognize that the senses are very malleable.. they may give me wildly varying information regarding sensory input..

and this can occur inside or outside of a matrix. because it occurs on a lower level of the human operating system entirely

imagine ingesting lsd INSIDE the matrix

 

[restin]

Psychedelics have definitely caused me to question my senses more, or at the very least how my brain interprets these signals. So while I'm not too concerned with a grandiose higher reality that may exist, I do recognize that the senses are very malleable.. they may give me wildly varying information regarding sensory input..

I completely agree. I gave up my thoughts about God quite a while ago because of that. Now I am agnostic and happy